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Featured Please challenge me--with Scriptures

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Johnny4ChristJesus, Oct 28, 2018.

  1. Johnny4ChristJesus

    Johnny4ChristJesus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Here is what I believe about the 66 Books of Scripture contained in the Bible. Please challenge me with Scriptures, if you believe I have erred. Feel free to also share Scriptures you believe support what I have said.

    Let's not make it mean-spirited. Just share, please. I'm not demanding your agreement. Please don't be offended if I don't argue with you. If I ask questions, I am only looking for clarity. You are free to believe what you want to believe about the Scriptures; but this is what I believe, as of today (I labeled with a number so you could share Scriptures specific to that number). Thank you, in advance.

    1. I believe that “all Scripture is given by inspiration of God,” by which I understand the whole Bible is inspired in the sense that holy men of God “were moved by the Holy Spirit” to write the very words of Scripture.

    2. I believe that this divine inspiration extends equally and fully to all parts of the writings—historical, poetical, doctrinal, and prophetical—as appeared in the original manuscripts. I also believe that God does not lie. I also believe that, as the omnipotent Absolute Sovereign over all, He has the ability to keep His Word. As He promises to be faithful to His Word, His Word will never return void. Therefore, we can trust in Him to bring His Word to pass.

    3. Therefore, I believe the Scriptures included in what we call the Bible are the reliable, true, honest, and perfectly consistent Testimony of God regarding the human matters He chose to speak to us about.

    4. I believe that the whole Bible in the originals is therefore without error and perfectly consistent. However, The Bible is not what is referred to in 1 Cor 13:10 as “that which is perfect”.

    5. I do not believe it is appropriate to call the Testimony of God (that we have in The Scriptures we call The Bible) “The Word of God”, because it confuses people into thinking that they can use things that were said by people other than God as if they are true. While it is true that these things were said, according to the inerrant Testimony of God, what people said is not necessarily true and therefore shouldn’t be quoted as if it was. (For example: Job’s three friends said a lot about God who said they didn’t speak correctly about Him; so, to quote those three friends as if what they said was true would be using the inerrant Scriptures errantly. In Jesus’ run-ins with the pharisees, they often said things that weren’t true. To quote them, as if it was, would be an errant use of the Scriptures. God makes errant words obvious.

    6. I also believe in transcendant inspiration whereby God carries the Life of His Word forward through translations, in spite of translational errors (which I believe all translations have). I believe God will bring an indwelt believer into all Truth regardless of translational error, if the believer will listen to Him over men and their traditions. God is neither constrained by missing words nor extra words nor wrong words. God chooses to be constrained by an individual’s genuine response to Him. If this were not true, I would not have been able to be woken up by God through an NIV audio Bible while in a hotel room by myself, in spite of my “church’s” lack of belief in being born again.

    7. I believe God watches over His Word to perform it (Jer 1:12), I believe that God’s Word never returns void, but accomplishes that which God pleases and that His Word will succeed in the thing for which He sent His Word. (Isa 55:11) I believe the Word of God is living and active (Heb 4:12) and I believe faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God (Rom 10:17).

    8. I believe in the Theocentricity, as opposed to the Christocentricity, of the Scriptures. Within that bigger context, I believe the Scriptures in what we call the Old and New Testaments of the Bible speak extensively of the Person and Work of our One and only True Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

    9. I also believe that all the Scriptures were given for much more than simple practical instruction. Jesus said “My Words are Spirit and they are Life”. (Mark 12:26, 36; 13:11; Luke 24:27, 44; John 5:39; Acts 1:16; 17:2–3; 18:28; 26:22–23; 28:23; Rom. 15:4; 1 Cor. 2:13; 10:11; 2 Tim. 3:16; 2 Pet. 1:21).
     
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  2. Humble me Lord

    Humble me Lord Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I didn't know I had controversial beliefs, but I can find no fault in anything you wrote.
     
  3. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Well said. God Bless.
     
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  4. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy A person of low ability. Supporter

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    The problem isn't the truth or reliability of scripture. It's our understanding of it that is often problematic.
     
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  5. Johnny4ChristJesus

    Johnny4ChristJesus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I agree with you and I believe the Scriptures support what you said. I think of what Jesus said to the Pharisees in John 5:39 for instance. This is why I believe that genuine surrender to the Holy Spirit is absolutely necessary for a person to have a correct understanding of the Scriptures.
     
  6. Pneuma3

    Pneuma3 Well-Known Member

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    If you wont discuss the different opinions, not much sense in posting one.

    And people say they believe a lot of things only to find out they do not believe what they say they believe.

    An example of that would be your #2
     
  7. Aspzan

    Aspzan Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I also believe/agree with this point but I'm looking for more information about it. I keep hearing non-Christians criticise us for listening to men for example. What would be good info against this criticism? I haven't been a Christian very long. (since July)
     
  8. Dave G.

    Dave G. Well-Known Member

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    So now we know what you believe.
     
  9. Johnny4ChristJesus

    Johnny4ChristJesus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Pneuma3,

    (1) If you don't want to share, why even bother writing a statement saying so?

    (2) I don't mind discussing the Scriptures. My focus just isn't on debating to win an argument. A challenge forces me to go back and re-examine what I say I believe. That is why I asked if readers perceived I said something not in agreement with the Scriptures.

    (3) How is it helpful to state "an example would be #2" without giving any further information as to (a) what I say I believe that you think I really don't believe or (b) whether what I said I believe is in accordance with the Scriptures or (c) why you think it is not?
     
  10. Aspzan

    Aspzan Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I just read 2 Corinthians 13 it helped me in this matter
     
  11. Johnny4ChristJesus

    Johnny4ChristJesus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There is always going to be non-Christian criticism. We don't believe we are listening to men's words. They always will. Only God can help them see the Truth. A guy like Josh McDowell, Frank Turek, or Ravi Zacharias can help give facts to support what we believe and can help them question what they believe, but only God can truly enable us to be convinced.

    For me, when God woke me up through His Scriptures, I was simultaneously convinced, beyond any shadow of doubt, in the supernatural validity of the Scriptures. But, that isn't an argument that is going to help you with the non-Christian. That person will simply say that I'm insane--just like I would have said before it happened to me.

    You will have much more impact praying for them and showing them with your life than trying to convince them through argument.
     
  12. Johnny4ChristJesus

    Johnny4ChristJesus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Thank you for sharing how you resolved.
     
  13. Doug Melven

    Doug Melven Well-Known Member

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    I agree with your other points wholeheartedly.
    But this statement is confusing.
    The first part you state you believe in Theocentricity, not Christocentricity.
    Then in the 2nd part you say the OT and NT both speak about our LORD Jesus Christ. To me the 2nd part is Christcentric.

    I believe the whole Bible is about Jesus Christ.
    OT = Christ concealed
    NT = Christ revealed.
     
  14. Pneuma3

    Pneuma3 Well-Known Member

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    I never said I did not want to share I said what sense was sharing if you did not want to discuss what is shared. You don't seem to want to discuss your view, just see who and who does not agree with your view.

    That fine in and of itself I guess, so maybe I should just say I disagree.


    There are different understanding of the scriptures so that is not really helpful.

    Example: you state all scripture in the bible is inspired by God. I also say all scripture in the bible is inspired by God but not everything in the bible is scripture.

    Thus we are in agreement concerning scripture, but not in agreement that the bible =scripture.

    Fair enough here is what you said in #2


    Did God sent His WORD into the world to save the world?
    Will God WORD accomplish all it set out (the salvation of the world) or return void?
    Can you trust God to bring His WORD to pass?

    Now in past conversation with you, you believe God sent His WORD (JESUS) to save the world, but for some reason (the will of man?)God cannot accomplish the salvation of the world, thus we cannot trust God to bring his WORD to pass.
     
  15. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy A person of low ability. Supporter

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    Regardless of how much is "holy writ" there is enough wisdom in there, if put into practice, to save mankind from most of our ills.
     
  16. Pneuma3

    Pneuma3 Well-Known Member

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    The holy writ can never save us from any of our ills brother, but they will lead us to the one who will.

    Jesus said ye search the scriptures thinking to find life but they are they which testify of me and you won't come to me to find life.

    In other words there is NO life in the scriptures, the life can only be found in Jesus Christ.
     
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  17. Johnny4ChristJesus

    Johnny4ChristJesus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think you misunderstand me. I am interested in discussing what I believe. If I am believe a lie, I want to have it exposed before I go home and I do believe God works through people, not just supernaturally one-on-one in every instance. I don't mind discussing. I just don't want to argue. I want issues exposed, but I don't want someone to feel like it is their personal duty to make me believe something different. I hope that better explains where I am coming from.

    I can assure you that I don't care about agreement, because not everyone has the same agenda I have. I care about being faithful to God, not religion, church ties, tradition or even my own theology. I believe this forum can present the best challenges, because people come at things from different perspectives. Once you got past misunderstanding my motive, Pneuma3, you did add value for me by discussing what you perceive and how it differed from what I believe. You gave me things to think about. I will respond more later.
     
  18. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    What denomination doesn't believe Jesus when He said we must be born again? Is it Christian?
     
  19. Pneuma3

    Pneuma3 Well-Known Member

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    It happens, I am not perfect. LOL

    Good, that actually sound like me Johnny, I like iron sharpening iron via reasoning the scriptures with one another. However what I have found is not many are willing to do the quid pro quo of answering questions addressed to them and only want you to answer the questions they have. I believe we should both ask and answer each others questions.

    Ok I will await your response
     
  20. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy A person of low ability. Supporter

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    Obedience to the commandments would eliminate most of our problems.
     
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