Plato versus Aristotle

[Godlovesmetwo]

Thanks to videos from youtube like this, old geysers like me can learn stuff that is usually reserved for the highly educated, or used to be anyway.
I'm wondering how a thorough knowledge of these two guys might inform my faith? I do know that the Catholic theologian, Thomas Aquinas drew from Aristotle. And Saint Augustine drew a lot from Plato.
So Plato is the idealist and Aristotle the pragmatist? I can see the implications for politics from this youtube clip. We need to have some ideals but if we aren't practical, it wont work. Communism didn't/doesnt work really. Utopia doesn't either.
Maybe we can transfer this perspective towards the Gospels? The Gospels are the ideal but if we take Aristotle's view, we need to make pragmatic adjustments to make it work in reality? Don't think Aquinas saw this implication by the way.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

 

[chevyontheriver]

Thanks to videos from youtube like this, old geysers like me can learn stuff that is usually reserved for the highly educated, or used to be anyway.
I'm wondering how a thorough knowledge of these two guys might inform my faith? I do know that the Catholic theologian, Thomas Aquinas drew from Aristotle. And Saint Augustine drew a lot from Plato.
So Plato is the idealist and Aristotle the pragmatist? I can see the implications for politics from this youtube clip. We need to have some ideals but if we aren't practical, it wont work. Communism didn't/doesnt work really. Utopia doesn't either.
Maybe we can transfer this perspective towards the Gospels? The Gospels are the ideal but if we take Aristotle's view, we need to make pragmatic adjustments to make it work in reality? Don't think Aquinas saw this implication by the way.

Plato AND Aristotle are worth consideration. An Aristotelian world does make more sense (to me). Give 'em both a shot. Try reading Plato and Isaiah at the same time. They were contemporaries in two vastly different cultures. It's very interesting. As to Aristotle, the Nichomachian Ethics is classic, but in some ways really deficient. Aquinas was a necessary corrective to Aristotle.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Try reading Plato and Isaiah at the same time.

That's a juggling act I do not aspire to.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Aquinas was a necessary corrective to Aristotle.

You mean he changed some of Aristotle's ideas?

 

[HereIStand]

Sounds good. In the car, I've been listening to Peter Kreeft's lectures The Platonic Tradition. He provides a brief abstract of each of Plato's dialogues, and compares Plato with Aristotle. He also compares Augustine with Plato. As I recall, it's believed that Augustine read Plotinus, but not Plato first-hand. Kreeft also discusses anti-Platonists ancient and modern.
One ancient counter-Plato philosopher was Gorgias. Kreeft notes his three main points,

i. Nothing exists
ii. Even if existence exists, it cannot be known
iii. Even if it could be known, it cannot be communicated.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Here I stand
Sorry you're right. Augustine drew from Plato, Plotinus and Neo Platonism.

 

[chevyontheriver]

You mean he changed some of Aristotle's ideas?

Oh yes. He fixed Aristotle basically. Baptized him as it were.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Oh yes. He fixed Aristotle basically. Baptized him as it were.

well at first glance, I feel that "being pragmatic" is not necessarily the answer to everything either.

 

[chevyontheriver]

You mean he changed some of Aristotle's ideas?

That was an assignment for my Church Fathers class, first semester. And it turned out to be an exam question in the form of asking whether Plato and Isaiah met how would they influence each other. Would Plato have become a proto-Christian? My answer was 'no' but it was only a speculative answer.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

That was an assignment for my Church Fathers class, first semester. And it turned out to be an exam question in the form of asking whether Plato and Isaiah met how would they influence each other. Would Plato have become a proto-Christian? My answer was 'no' but it was only a speculative answer.

Makes me curious about doing similar study and assignments.

 

[Uber Genius]

Thanks to videos from youtube like this, old geysers like me can learn stuff that is usually reserved for the highly educated, or used to be anyway.
I'm wondering how a thorough knowledge of these two guys might inform my faith? I do know that the Catholic theologian, Thomas Aquinas drew from Aristotle. And Saint Augustine drew a lot from Plato.
So Plato is the idealist and Aristotle the pragmatist? I can see the implications for politics from this youtube clip. We need to have some ideals but if we aren't practical, it wont work. Communism didn't/doesnt work really. Utopia doesn't either.
Maybe we can transfer this perspective towards the Gospels? The Gospels are the ideal but if we take Aristotle's view, we need to make pragmatic adjustments to make it work in reality? Don't think Aquinas saw this implication by the way.

Aristotle didn't deny Platonic forms. He just thought they were instantiated in the material world so he added to Platonism and created realism. One of the challenges in the video you posted is that it is a historian talking about philosophy. For a view of Plato, Aristotle, and Plotinus' impact on early Christianity, see this video by Peter Kreeft:

Thanks to videos from youtube like this, old geysers like me can learn stuff that is usually reserved for the highly educated, or used to be anyway.
I'm wondering how a thorough knowledge of these two guys might inform my faith? I do know that the Catholic theologian, Thomas Aquinas drew from Aristotle. And Saint Augustine drew a lot from Plato.
So Plato is the idealist and Aristotle the pragmatist? I can see the implications for politics from this youtube clip. We need to have some ideals but if we aren't practical, it wont work. Communism didn't/doesnt work really. Utopia doesn't either.
Maybe we can transfer this perspective towards the Gospels? The Gospels are the ideal but if we take Aristotle's view, we need to make pragmatic adjustments to make it work in reality? Don't think Aquinas saw this implication by the way.

see

will clarify the relation between Greek and early Christian philosophy.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Thanks . I will watch it as I have seen other Peter Kreeft videos. He is a real bonus for Catholicism.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Aristotle didn't deny Platonic forms. He just thought they were instantiated in the material world so he added to Platonism and created realism. One of the challenges in the video you posted is that it is a historian talking about philosophy. For a view of Plato, Aristotle, and Plotinus' impact on early Christianity, see this video by Peter Kreeft:

see

will clarify the relation between Greek and early Christian philosophy.

The problem being that Peter Kreeft goes a tad over my head. I need to read up some more first. Thanks anyway.

 

[Jamsie]

The problem being that Peter Kreeft goes a tad over my head. I need to read up some more first. Thanks anyway.

I would highly recommend Edward Feser who has written several books of note, he is a Thomist. It should be noted that books by any philosopher shouldn't be read as one would read a novel...worth reading in smaller sections with time to digest and consider.

 

[Uber Genius]

Thanks . I will watch it as I have seen other Peter Kreeft videos. He is a real bonus for Catholicism.

IN fact if I were going to consider converting he would be a guy I would listen to.

 

[Uber Genius]

I would highly recommend Edward Feser who has written several books of note, he is a Thomist. It should be noted that books by any philosopher shouldn't be read as one would read a novel...worth reading in smaller sections with time to digest and consider.

Feser's book on Philosophy of Mind is a comprehensive and even-handed intro. Know he was a Thomist, is he a Platonist/ idealist? I have read his articles on his blog, and his wife has a book that is helpful for apologetics.

 

[Uber Genius]

The problem being that Peter Kreeft goes a tad over my head. I need to read up some more first. Thanks anyway.

William Lane Craig has a site called reasonablefaith.org.

That site will direct you to Defenders Class and there Craig lectures to us comMon folk..

 

[Uber Genius]

The problem being that Peter Kreeft goes a tad over my head. I need to read up some more first. Thanks anyway.

William Lane Craig has a site called reasonablefaith.org.

That site will direct you to Defenders Class and there Craig lectures to us common folk.

 

[Anto9us]

So the philosophy student was questioning everything and asked the Professor

"Sir, if these things are true -- how do I know that I even exist?"

And the Professor said "Who wants to know?"