• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

plant-based meat

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by FireDragon76, Sep 22, 2019.

  1. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +9,545
    United States
    Other Religion
    Legal Union (Other)
    US-Democrat
    I didn't know these were out on the market until I watched a documentary called Cowspiracy on Youtube a few weeks ago, and found out Burger King is selling a "plant-based meat" burger, the Impossible Burger (I don't watch TV and the Internet is my only source of news). So I went out and tried it a week ago and I couldn't tell it wasn't made from beef. I suspect it has more fiber than a regular burger, and it didn't taste as greasy, but it didn't taste like a typical "veggie burger".

    The concept of course has been around a while, they used to be called meat-analogues, but recently, due to increased interest by investors like Bill Gates in environmentally sustainable alternatives to meat, there has been more money pouring in to make more "meat-eater acceptable" products.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • List
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

    +1,712
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Private
    But in the end it is just another in a long line of additive riddled processed foods, none of which are as healthy as plain scratch meals from basic unrefined foods.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • List
  3. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +9,545
    United States
    Other Religion
    Legal Union (Other)
    US-Democrat
    The goal is to find environmentally sustainable, consumer-acceptable alternatives to foods that are damaging to the environment (up to half of global warming may be down to farting cows alone), not to create health foods. Though I have no doubt the plant-based meats are healthier than beef. The food colorings are natural, from beets, which makes them a source of polyphenols. The Burger King Impossible Burger also contains 3 grams of fiber, something I noticed eating the burger (it's more satiating than a typical Whopper).
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  4. Monk Brendan

    Monk Brendan Well-Known Member Supporter

    +2,762
    United States
    Melkite Catholic
    Private
    US-Others
    I ate one from Carl's Jr. It was good, but way more expensive than an ordinary burger.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  5. Quid est Veritas?

    Quid est Veritas? In Memoriam to CS Lewis

    +7,343
    Protestant
    Married
    They aren't more environmentally friendly necessarily though. Much of the land clearance in South America is to produce Soya, which obviously makes up fair percentages here. Cattle are often grazed on marginal land, or not suitable for intensive agriculture, which the demand for meat-analogues would need to fill by increasing acreage under conventional cultivation. The end result might just be more deforestation anyhow. I've heard the argument that eating more insects would be the better way for environmentally friendly substitutes for large grazing animals.

    As to methane from cows being responsible for global warming, I don't think that is as obvious as people pretend. Besides, it is not unnatural percentages, as we just changed the ruminants: North America used to have bison herds stretching from horison to horison, which now has just been replaced with cattle.
     
  6. ThievingMagpie

    ThievingMagpie Member

    160
    +158
    United Kingdom
    Humanist
    Married
    The problem is that the vast majority of consumed cattle are factory farmed which are usually fed on grains like soy. I did a bit of research and the majority of soy beans actually goes to cattle rather than human consumption - there are different estimates for how much (certain vegan activist websites put it at 90%) so I looked for a neutral source and the Yale Schools of Forestry and Environmental studies puts it at 67% of global soy production. So given Soy is quite a damaging crop, by feeding it to humans directly you'd be using it a lot more efficiently than the meat market currently operates.

    To answer the OP. We've been vegetarian for about a year and a half now. I found meat substitutes really helpful in the first year or so in being able to move onto a plant-based diet. It's quite daunting having to learn lots of new recipes for the family - especially since I work full time and don't always have the energy in the evenings to be particularly creative. So stuff like Quorn and Cauldron was great for porting over old staples - really easy to make sausage caseroles, 'chicken' pies and I've even got a half decent Oyakodon working using vivera chicken and konbu dashi. Nowadays I've got my head round a lot of purely vegetable meals - this Leon black bean stew is awesome - so we don't use as much subs.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  7. Quid est Veritas?

    Quid est Veritas? In Memoriam to CS Lewis

    +7,343
    Protestant
    Married
    I don't know, a lot depends here. In South Africa, 70% of agricultural land is given over to grazing, as being too poor to sustain other forms of agriculture. Of this, apparently 70% undergo fattening in feedlots for about 100 days prior to slaughter. For the vast amount, the meat is not grain-fed therefore. I am basing this on an article I found that I am appending, which actually argues that the rapid feedlot bulking after initial grassfeeding, is less methane producing than otherwise. The economic need here is also apparent.

    A South African perspective on livestock production in relation to greenhouse gases and water usage

    Functionally we can't grow soy in South Africa, and importing it to feed humans would not be as effective as keeping cattle on marginal land. Besides, cattle are an important component of indigineous culture - the bride price is called lobola, paid in cattle, for instance. Maize or lucern are the major feedlot products here, but neither the type of maize nor lucern can be human dietary replacements for meat.

    Thing is, our meat-rich diets are unhealthy. Plant-based diets are also unhealthy, requiring B12 and raising stroke risk. The ideal is a mostly plant-based with small amounts of meat, it seems, from a health perspective. Well, from a Greenhouse gas perspective, I think that would be a similar case - though certainly not an expert, and having only read superficially on the topic. The answer is not making meat-analogues, but eating more conventional plants - and thus decreasing the demand for meat, so that meat could be raised on marginal land, without impacting deforestation and so. We should not be raising the demand for Soy at all, if that is one of the leading causes of deforestation, which is what meat-analogues would do. For people aren't going to stop eating meat, and as such, we are merely incentivising soy acreagre - at least initially.

    After all, if we move toward more diverse planting strategies, such as old-fashioned grain followed by legumes, we can actually have a net sequestration of CO2. Meat-analogues seem ill-advised environmentally to my mind, more perhaps for ethical concerns about meat consumption. Soy cannot directly replace the nutritional value or so of meat either. I feel people are throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  8. ThievingMagpie

    ThievingMagpie Member

    160
    +158
    United Kingdom
    Humanist
    Married
    That's an interesting context, I'm not that familiar with the South African economy or the cultural relationship to agriculture so thank you. I agree that making meat analogues the 'goal' of a sustainable human diet isn't wise - but as above I've definitely found them helpful in transitioning towards a plant-based diet. My aims are majorly environmental so beef dairy and pork are my primary avoidances right now - this is largely based on findings from the UN's special report on climate change and consumption: Climate Change and Land — IPCC. I'm trying oat milk out at the moment, it's a bit weird - everything ends up tasting like cereal.
     
  9. durangodawood

    durangodawood Dis Member

    +3,215
    United States
    Seeker
    Single
    Do you really know whats in it? Or are you just guessing?
     
  10. ananda

    ananda Early Buddhist

    +1,786
    Private
    Where are the meat-based plants?
     
  11. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

    +1,712
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Are not your fast food joints required to post nutritional info and contents?
     
  12. usexpat97

    usexpat97 kewlness

    +872
    Presbyterian
    Single
    I am completely, 100% on board with plant-based meats. Morally, the Christian Bible explicitly says it is okay to kill and eat animals, but if we have the opportunity to value all animals as more than just meat, then by all means let's take it.

    The whole artificial, processed-foods thing is a valid point, but if we look at where GMO crops started, that started with the intent to save lives--not ruin them. And at that, it was very successful. GMO wheat may be bad for you, but it is a heckuva lot better than no food at all. In the same way, I don't like the idea of beheading chickens just because plant-based chicken "might" be bad for you.
     
  13. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

    +1,712
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Some might see it as starting an industry that required contractual obligation to buy seed modified to produce non-productive seed and chemicals as an alternative method of farming. Like with global warming it's all about new ways to make money as previous industries die..
     
  14. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +9,545
    United States
    Other Religion
    Legal Union (Other)
    US-Democrat
    Plant-based meats aren't really about forcing people to give up eating that steak once in a while- which is why they aren't being marketted as vegetarian. It's about introducing potentially cheaper and more environmental sustainable options for consumers.

    There's really no good reason a fast food burger needs to be made from cattle. Most of the distinctive flavor is highly engineered, just as it is with plant-based meat.
     
  15. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +9,545
    United States
    Other Religion
    Legal Union (Other)
    US-Democrat
    Good point... not everybody is ready to dive into making vegetarian Asian cuisine, so processed plant-based food definitely has a place.
     
  16. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

    +1,712
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Actually, most say it tastes just like a hamburger, not hamburger because of meat taste, but how a hamburger (again the unit not just the patty) tastes... cheese, tomato, condiments, onions and the like over-riding any taste the patty itself might have. Remember back when patties were vegetation and animal fat? It could haven gone either way.
     
  17. usexpat97

    usexpat97 kewlness

    +872
    Presbyterian
    Single
    We might be comparing apples and oranges. Fast food joints in Canada are very different than in the US. Just take McDonalds: a Canadian McDonalds you'll buy a $7 CAD burger, and it is very different/better than a $1.50 USD burger. So how they'll change with plant-based meats will be different; because where they started was different.
     
  18. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

    +1,712
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Private
    I suppose, but in the end plant based proteins are not the same as flesh based proteins and we seem to need both. Of course a simple broth of either would do and require far less of either to produce a daily dose as compared to chunks of plant or meat.
     
  19. MehGuy

    MehGuy Free speech warrior degenerate Supporter

    +6,562
    United States
    Atheist
    Single
    US-Others
    Hmm interesting.. I'll have to try one of these burgers.. doubt I'll be able to tell the difference (besides texture). Lacking a sense of smell (and I've read much of what we consider taste is actually smell) most foods tend to blend in with one another for me. Whether they be really cheap or really expensive.
     
  20. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +9,545
    United States
    Other Religion
    Legal Union (Other)
    US-Democrat
    This isn't the stone age anymore, we don't actually need meat to get vitamin B-12. We can engineer better diets than carving up the planet for meat.
     
Loading...