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Physical change boundaries, plastic surgery, and beauty

Discussion in 'Singles (Only*)' started by linux.poet, Jun 20, 2022.

  1. bèlla

    bèlla ❤️ Supporter

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    I don’t have a set list. I go with the flow. But I’m like a Christian Dr. Ruth. I’m not afraid to ask anything. People tell me a lot and nothing shocks me. I’ve heard it all.

    I didn’t bother asking. I’m an hourglass. No matter how small I am I’ll always be voluptuous. Because the breasts and hips are accentuated and the waist is small. That’s why I wear 1950s dresses. They camouflage the body nicely.
     
  2. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

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    I expect normal people to have physical change boundaries. I see your profile has you in southern California, so perhaps there's greater pressure to get those kinds of changes, either from men or from women. But I don't consider that type of social environment to be normal.

    If a guy wanted you to dye your hair, I would think that would come up much earlier in the relationship than talk of marriage.

    As far as implants go, well I understand people change over time but I don't believe I know anyone with implants.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2022
  3. linux.poet

    linux.poet Member

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    I have big bones and a stocky frame, and thus spend my life in loose jeans and T-shirts. Big breasts would look like unfortunate tacked on appendages.

    I haven’t had too many modesty issues, but I’ve learned that big bones is legs guys like to look at, so it’s loose pants and jackets that go over the waistline. I suppose if you can look past my large head and neck, you can find something to like.

    Simple. If there is a ham and swiss cheese sandwich on the menu, order that. If not, I like steak (especially steak sandwiches), pork ribs, spaghetti, Monterrey Chicken, and hamburgers, in that order. Don’t take me to a fish place because I’ll be allergic to half the menu. No drinks, water please, always.

    And what are you doing? Just give me the menu and let me order myself. I’m hungry.

    I don’t think it’s a common pressure where I live. I just got paranoid because of a comment bèlla wrote to Vinter about female appearance being changeable by their husbands and listening to Zick Zack by Rammstein one too many times.

    But I did think that it was interesting to bring up because I’ve never seen a man try to change someone else’s appearance besides continually complaining about her lack of exercise. It would make sense to seek a more informed opinion if this was a common marriage practice so I didn’t end up surprised by it.
     
  4. Saucy

    Saucy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Okay. I'll remember this.
     
  5. bèlla

    bèlla ❤️ Supporter

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    laughs @Sketcher CA is out there. I thought they were over the top when I was the world. The boundaries are next to none. The strange stuff I heard always came from Cali or NY.

    @linux.poet You can go beyond loose clothes and jeans. The silhouette is the starting point but you can do a lot through cut and drape to soften the frame.

    You minimize the head and neck through hair. A sleek cut over volume is ideal. Redirect the eye to a different focal point. There should be two. If you play up the eyes and mouth that’s where the eye will travel naturally.

    As for the comment to @Vinter, most women dress for men. They don’t do all that stuff for themselves. Left to their devices the majority would live in yoga pants. It takes effort to look nice. A ponytail and yoga pants is easier.

    However, most of that stops when they’re married. They put in the effort for work and outside events. But they don’t do it at home. That’s backwards.

    Before I made the statement I mentioned the importance of malleability and ministering to your man. Appearance is part of that. You don’t stop making an effort because you’ve got him. You raise the bar.

    When he walks out the door he’s confronted by effort everywhere. At work, on the street, and so on. She should be on point too. When he comes home she should be looking good! And if she’s smart she looks that way before he leaves.

    That works wonders for a marriage. Most women aren’t doing the same and he knows it. And it makes him feel good.

    Women are very suggestible when they’re on the hunt. They’ll do things they normally wouldn’t to get a man. But once they have him they return to normal. The woman I’m referencing isn’t like that. Her effort is continuous.

    That’s where the saying comes from “he hopes she doesn’t change” because they do. A lot of the things he experienced while dating will stop. She knew what he liked and she did it. Because she wanted to catch him.

    What I was really getting at in that portion was the difference between a hook and a mindset. I was directing him towards the latter. You don’t stop ‘dating’ him and that includes knowing what appeals throughout. You ask, observe and listen for suggestions.

    This goes back to my previous comment about the importance of asking questions. Ask him to paint a picture of married life. Find out his ideals about everything. You’ll learn a lot by doing so.

    When I asked about appearance the example he gave was The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel. I’d never seen the show but I watched it. I understood what he said and what he meant. The unspoken ideal. She always looked her best for him.

    He’ll tell you what he wants if you ask the right questions. If surgery’s on the table you’ll have a lot of conversations leading to that end. He has to ascertain your agreeability. That’s when boundaries come up.

    On the flip side, the women who go under the knife for their man have a distinctive mindset. Not all of them are trophies but they usually have a looking glass philosophy. She represents him in her person and appearance and honors him in both. That’s what fuels her effort. Pleasing and honoring him.
     
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  6. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

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    OK. Hearing certain people from California talk about California, I figure there might be more plastic surgery there than there is over here, with aspiring actors and a concentration of wealth. I honestly only expect that kind of emphasis on plastic surgery from wealthy people.
     
  7. linux.poet

    linux.poet Member

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    Yeah, the best thing is to just let women order their own food. Don't put them through an interrogation over it. You'll see their food while they are eating it anyway.

    Hmm. Tell that to the clothing manufacturers lol. I suppose my current set of fleece jackets with their feminine cut lines do the job quite nicely right now, but formal wear is an interesting problem.

    I've seen it all. Dresses that are too short, drawing attention to my legs. Skirts that make me look like a barge. A particularly sad example was a dress that had a waistline that sagged in the front due to space for an endowment that I did not possess and padded shoulders. My shoulders are big enough without additional reinforcement. It was awful.

    Add naturally thick hair to my list of problems then. I always ponytail, otherwise I look like a female monster or a giant walking thimble. Since my eyes are a focal point anyway because I have eyebrows that match my eye color, perhaps a little bit of non-tacky lipstick might help. I've just seen that done wrong so many times.

    As for the rest of it, yeah, I know. Previously I might have adopted a "there is no point in false advertising" and "in bed all the makeup has to come off anyway, so don't put it on" philosophy in order to excuse my combination of ignorance and laziness. I just figured if a guy wouldn't accept me as is, no point in bothering.

    But in marriage, of course you have to raise the bar. He's seeing all your skin on the regular. Your muscles have to be stronger. What? You can't afford to let things go. It's best to just do what you're comfortable with perpetually doing and let the guys decide what they want, unless you're me and that's about zero effort. If his physical appearance demands are too much, drop him and find someone else. In many ways, marriage is about the body.

    Wrong part of Cali, Sketcher boi. I'm broke, and the people around me are broke and struggling. I went to community college and to a state university that costs less than $4000 in tuition. The richest people I know are engineers who work for defense contractors, who get laid off like flies when the political winds change.

    I walk past homeless camps on my way to the chess club, which is in a park near the center of town. Downtown is an exercise in contrast between the construction, the homeless, and the dessert shop where I bought a lemon bar for $4.50 (good, but not as good as my lemon scones). Going uptown is the same. Brand-name dealerships next to worn-down car lots. Industrial workshops next to well-kept neighborhoods. Squalid apartments next to the freeway. Houses are over 30 years old and falling apart.

    Cali is more than LA/San Francisco/Hollywood. It also contains a lot of rural farmland - and while some of that is old money wineries, you get a lot of migrant workers and construction workers. Not to mention government industries and other industrial work near the ports. Those who work for government industries have money, like my dad the engineer, but the people who work for industries that service people like my dad the engineer have none. Nobody is going into acting.

    I look around at this world, and I feel that I am lost with no real place in it.
     
  8. Saucy

    Saucy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I do let them order their own food. I just want to make them happy by going to the place they want. But they don't tell me what they want and when I try to pick, they don't want that lol. Women seem to always want guys to KNOW what they're thinking or what they want. Sorry, I don't play those games. Just tell me so we can go haha
     
  9. linux.poet

    linux.poet Member

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    What? No, that never works and gets you with bad food that you don't want, every single time. I hate the fact that the sandwich place near my house doesn't serve good ham sandwiches anymore, and I am not going to be the victim of your ill-advised culinary guesses. Nor do I have time to waste messing around with your head when food is on the line. Who are these insane people?

    Though I did read a dating book (by a guy, for guys) that said that you were supposed to control every aspect of your date yourself if you were a guy in order to attract the girl to your authority and that catering to her preferences makes you look weak, but he was into pumping and dumping. If your goal in dating is marriage, it really pays to have a dialogue to find out more about the person and their preferences before going for sexual desire and domination.
     
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  10. Saucy

    Saucy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I agree totally. While I believe in being a spiritual authority and head of the home, this whole idea of controlling every aspect to declare my authority is crazy! You have your own preferences. I want you to eat what you want to eat and to enjoy your time out.
     
  11. bèlla

    bèlla ❤️ Supporter

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    You’re better off making your own clothes even though it costs more on the front end. You can get the right fit. The industry standard barely applies to anyone. It’ll never be perfect off the rack.

    Once you’ve adjusted the patterns to your specifications you’re good. Make a muslin for tweaks and when its perfect make the first. Rinse and repeat. Build a wardrobe through patterns. Once the adjustments are done you’ve got your template.

    There’s lots of sewing books with capsules you can reference or piece it together on your own. Jo-Ann has their pattern sales again. You can stock up and get to work. They have sewing challenges online for this purpose.

    The cut can tone it down. Vidal Sassoon has a school out there. The rates are lower for the workshop and usually free if you’re a model. The bob originated with him. They’re really good at technical cuts. The best in my opinion.

    Look for male mua’s on YouTube. They’re usually really good and the end result is less dramatic. The women will have you looking like kkw.

    If I’m tempted to slack I look for a partner who wants the thing I refuse to do or I’m willing to put off. Sometimes you have to play offense against yourself. I noticed my eagerness to do things with the right motivation. I make it easy on myself. If he wants it its a done deal.

    I don’t mind having standards. I’m okay with it. But it was odd at first to have someone addressing my attire when that’s my expertise. But he came out with lingo, fabric knowledge, discussing shape and hem lengths and I was shocked. He can expound on shoes, makeup, accessories, etc. He knows his stuff.

    I told him to put it in writing. It’s pretty impressive and close to my natural style. There wasn’t a lot to change. But he’s more Dior and I’m more Chanel. I like a bit of glam and that’s really the difference. We play the pictures game for fun. The denial is coming for sure. The way he says it is hilarious.
     
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  12. bèlla

    bèlla ❤️ Supporter

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    He has it backwards. It’s the authority that inspires compliance. Otherwise you have a wrestling match. Here’s the skinny. There’s four types of women.

    Type A wants to follow. You get the reins from the start.
    Type B wants consideration but she’ll give you the reins.
    Type C wants equality. No one’s in charge.
    Type D wants control. Overtly or covertly.

    75% percent of the women you meet will hail from the last three. I’m being generous with that number. It’s probably closer to 80/85.
     
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  13. linux.poet

    linux.poet Member

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    I'm Type B.

    Actually, I probably flip back and forth between Type B and A depending on whether I know anything about whatever it is. If I don't know anything, I turn into a complete Type A sheep. If I do know something, I explain what I know, and if you don't consider my highly informed recommendation I'll just assume that you will do whatever you want to do anyway and there is nothing I can do about it. Still, I deeply want a relationship where I am considered instead of being crushed.

    @Saucy and I over here being kind survivors lol. The thing is, you can't get too far into the consideration game or the relationship becomes aimless and goes nowhere. I need to know what my advice or my work is being put toward. If I'm married, my thoughts exist in an authoritative framework. No purpose, no dice - we will fall into the "what would you like to do?" relationship black hole which bores me toward the exit. To what great purpose am I signing up for that my man is pursuing? What do I need to research and become an expert about?

    I'm still looking for motivation in the beauty sphere, heh. Still, thank you for the advice.

    I have been looking into sewing patterns and fittings as part of my exploration of that subject. Change will be a gradual learning process that will likely be beyond the scope of yonder forum.
     
  14. Saucy

    Saucy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Awesome thoughts!
     
  15. bèlla

    bèlla ❤️ Supporter

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    In respect to my companion I’m Type A with significant caveats. I’m not a guinea pig. He has to know what he’s doing and if he doesn’t he needs to admit it. My self-preservation is strong. I’m not into wrecks.

    There’s support and encouragement and stupidity. My belief doesn’t divorce me from commonsense. I look for evidence of wise decision making in their life. I’m practical.

    I test this in many ways with real and imagined scenarios to gauge his thought process. Is he quick on his feet? A problem-solver? Innovative? How does handle adversity? And so on.

    I let him talk and expound on his dreams and desires. I never say its impossible or unrealistic. I’m interested in discovering how he’ll bring it to fruition. I ask to gauge where he’s at in the process and what he’s done thus far.

    What I’m attempting to learn through my inquiries is if he can carry the ball and finish. A lot of people can start. But they fizzle out or throw in the towel. I’m too results driven for that. I can’t follow him. He has to be a closer. I require evidence that he gets stuff done before I agree.

    While I’m innately Type A he has to fill the position he wants. We’re not gonna wing it. I look for men with strong leadership skills who are operating in that role somewhere.

    Experience is a good teacher. It’s a better conduit in early stages for constructive criticism than relationships. If a woman says it he’ll get offended or defensive. Getting your feet wet elsewhere prepares you for the challenges you encounter later on.

    Consideration is an important part of any connection. I don’t have to be considered on everything nor does he. We can make a decision with the other in mind that’s equally appealing. I’m not into micromanagement. Tell me the end result you want and I’ll make it happen.

    But some people are into details. They want to be involved in every step. I don’t deal with him. It’s often convoluted and I value efficiency. If done is the goal it doesn’t matter if its through my hands or another’s. Just that it gets done.

    There’s nuance in all of them. I wear a lot of hats. It depends on the situation. For example, if you say you want to dine at home 4 times per week and eat out the other three. I’m not asking what he wants for dinner. That’s minor. I’m providing four meals with suggestions for the others. Household management is my job and I manage the tasks. You consult when needed.

    Even that’s a variable. Some people value structure. They want a well ordered life and others are more laid back or flexible. The life he wants should fit you as well. It should capitalize on your strengths and talents. Otherwise they’re unused and that’s a waste. That’s why I said beware of collectors on the other thread.

    They’ll be oohing and ahhing and know they’ll never use it. They like the idea of having someone who can do this or that but will never ask. That’s why you dig so you’re not duped by make believe.

    Without vision people fail. You need to know where he’s heading. Is he flying by the seat of his pants or does he have direction? That’s where goals and dreams come in. There should visible progress. It shouldn’t all be in the clouds. Some people are great at ideas and bad at execution.

    Craftsy covers it all. The teachers are good and industry experts.
     
  16. DragonFox91

    DragonFox91 Well-Known Member

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    I know one woman (a coworker) w/ implants. She got them b/c she has a lot of body image issues.
     
  17. public hermit

    public hermit social troglodyte-tested and approved Supporter

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    Maybe I'm old school, or just old, but I can't imagine telling a woman what she should do in terms of how she looks. Okay, taking a shower I might suggest if the situation starts to reek. But I doubt I would be with someone who has a problem remembering to shower periodically. I just don't know what I would say in terms of giving beauty advice. "Um, that color nail polish just doesn't work." I have no idea what color works. As far as breasts go, they're all great, as far as I can tell. Who are these guys that tell their girlfriends or wives how they should look or dress or, God forbid, that they should have plastic surgery? That's really strange to me. When I was in relationships, I dreaded the question, "How does this look?" *Oh, Lord help me. Just say it looks great.*
     
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  18. bèlla

    bèlla ❤️ Supporter

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    You're really funny in an inappropriate way. :D

    But seriously Hermie, if I asked you how I looked you wouldn't tell me the truth? Or what you liked or preferred to see me in? Control freaks aside, there's an unspoken dialogue taking place. The pleasure isn't one-sided. She's getting something out of it too. His reaction makes her feel good. Give and take is sweet.
     
  19. Saucy

    Saucy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I certainly would like to marry Type A or B. It is great when women follow the biblical guidelines for marriage and don't try to dominate or demand to be in control. I certainly wouldn't be a strict husband except for where spiritual matters are concerned. Regular Bible studies together, praying together, raising our children in the Lord together, and ensuring our marriage is where it needs to be. I understand marriage not to be a 50-50 proposition, but I give 100% and she gives 100% and each of us is focused on serving each other's needs. I need to understand the way she recognizes love and love her that way. I also need to love the Lord and put Him first, which she might not always understand.
     
  20. bèlla

    bèlla ❤️ Supporter

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    I’m not surprised by your answer. Given your aspirations the rest makes sense. Being a pastor’s wife is a ministry unto itself. But many books makes similar suggestions for laymen too. It can lead to unrealistic expectations and what I term pseudo pastors. I’ve witnessed it firsthand as well.

    Not everyone will lead bible studies or prayer or pray with you either. That doesn’t diminish his relationship with God, her or spiritual authority. I wish someone would say that. Add in work and familial responsibilities, church, volunteering and time with friends you’re pretty stretched.

    If they’re looking for things along the lines you shared they should marry you or another in that position. ;-)
     
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