Photography (Weddings) Business and Homosexual Agenda

[RocksInMyHead]

don't need to provide examples of them occurring. you have stated that a follower of Christ has a moral obligation to do photos for any of these examples.

It is my opinion that we have a moral and ethical obligation to provide the same services to all, so long as it is legal. Not sure what's so hard to understand about that. You may think it absurd, but so did the Pharisees when Jesus dined with sinners and tax collectors. His disciples thought it absurd when He spoke to the Samaritan woman, and He spoke also to prostitutes and touched lepers - both great taboos for someone of His stature at the time.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

It is my opinion that we have a moral and ethical obligation to provide the same services to all, so long as it is legal. Not sure what's so hard to understand about that. You may think it absurd, but so did the Pharisees when Jesus dined with sinners and tax collectors. His disciples thought it absurd when He spoke to the Samaritan woman, and He spoke also to prostitutes and touched lepers - both great taboos for someone of His stature at the time.

i'm not all that concerned with people's 'opinions', only the truth. it is sin to participate and involve yourself in the sinful acts of others.

as far as the "Jesus hung out with sinners" rebuttal, you might want to think that one over. there's a difference between interacting with sinners(which is more or less unavoidable due to the fact that every single person is a sinner and...the gospel and stuff) and participating in the sinful acts of sinners. Jesus did not do the latter in any of your examples. BTW, Jesus, being our high priest, was allowed to touch lepers just like any other priest.

 

[FireDragon76]

Yesterday's Gospel reading about the parable of the talents is a good example of what not to do. In the name of fearing the harshness of his master, the foolish slave buried what he had been given in a field, to "play it safe". In the end, what he buried was nothing more than faith, hope and love. It is important to not sin against faith, hope, and love, in the name of upholding our righteousness.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

as far as the "Jesus hung out with sinners" rebuttal, you might want to think that one over. there's a difference between interacting with sinners(which is more or less unavoidable due to the fact that every single person is a sinner and...the gospel and stuff) and participating in the sinful acts of sinners.

Last I checked, taking photos did not require you to engage in the activity you are photographing. Therefore, the idea that being a photographer somehow makes you a participant is flawed (and also your opinion - which you claim to not care about).

 

[FireDragon76]

i'm not all that concerned with people's 'opinions', only the truth. it is sin to participate and involve yourself in the sinful acts of others.

Two gay people getting a photo together is not a sin.

On the other hand, it is reprehensible to bind consciences to things that are not contrary to the Word of God. That is a sin, of the worst kind, and one for which that Jesus had the most harsh warnings (mattthew 18:6).

Jesus yoke is easy and his burden is light. Be suspicious of anyone who tells you otherwise.

The OP should not worry about her daughter photographing two people who happen to be gay. There is nothing in the Bible that prohibits it, and everything about Jesus teachings says that we should serve our neighbor and be willing to go the extra mile. That we should not even resist an evil man. How much more should be be willing to help our gay neighbor...

As one of my favorite eastern saints wrote, "Love to the end and without exceptions".

 

[Hank77]

It is my opinion that we have a moral and ethical obligation to provide the same services to all, so long as it is legal. Not sure what's so hard to understand about that. You may think it absurd, but so did the Pharisees when Jesus dined with sinners and tax collectors. His disciples thought it absurd when He spoke to the Samaritan woman, and He spoke also to prostitutes and touched lepers - both great taboos for someone of His stature at the time.

Nothing Jesus did was against God's law, Moses' Law. The Pharisees had made up their own rules and regulations, such as ceremonial hand washings before eating, etc. By not caring for the injured man they were actually breaking Moses' Law that said that they should care for the sojourner when he was in their land. None of things you listed, that Jesus did, was against Moses' Law.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Nothing Jesus did was against God's law, Moses' Law. The Pharisees had made up their own rules and regulations, such as ceremonial hand washings before eating, etc. By not caring for the injured man they were actually breaking Moses' Law that said that they should care for the sojourner when he was in their land. None of things you listed, that Jesus did, was against Moses' Law.

I'll quote myself from 30 minutes ago:

Last I checked, taking photos did not require you to engage in the activity you are photographing.

By photographing a gay wedding, you are in no way marrying or otherwise having sexual relations with someone of the same gender. Therefore, you are not violating God's law. Neither are you somehow "helping" someone violate God's law - a wedding doesn't require a photographer, and it would take place with or without your presence.

 

[Hank77]

The OP should not worry about her daughter photographing two people who happen to be gay.

It's the daughter who does not want to do it. Who are you or me to tell her what violates her conscience, her faith. If one violates their own faith, what God's Word says, that is sin.

Rom 14:23 But he that doubteth is condemned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith; and whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

There is nothing in the Bible that prohibits it,

Does the Bible prohibit same sex intimacy?

, and everything about Jesus teachings says that we should serve our neighbor and be willing to go the extra mile. That we should not even resist an evil man. How much more should be be willing to help our gay neighbor...

What about the evil man that wants you to take photos of their sin? You should just comply?

"Hello, my friend and I just stole this amazing sports car. We're celebrating and we would like to hire you to take photos of us with our new car."

 

[FireDragon76]

What about the evil man that wants you to take photos of their sin? You should just comply?

"Hello, my friend and I just stole this amazing sports car. We're celebrating and we would like to hire you to take photos of us with our new car."

A civil marriage is not a sin. It's a civil contract between two people.

Regardless of your views of sexual ethics, two gay people who love each other and desire to have the legal protections afforded to married couples is not sinful. Homosexual orientation cannot be considered intrinsically sinful, and few mainstream Christian confessions consider it such. Conservative evangelicals have no theological ground to stand on by insisting that gay orientation, aside from specific sexual acts, is sinful. The Bible never condemns orientation, even to a certain degree physical intimacy, only explicitly sexual behaviors (and I use the term sexual narrowly).

 

[Hank77]

By photographing a gay wedding, you are in no way marrying or otherwise having sexual relations with someone of the same gender. Therefore, you are not violating God's law. Neither are you somehow "helping" someone violate God's law - a wedding doesn't require a photographer, and it would take place with or without your presence.

It is not for you or me to say if it violates someone's conscience to take photos of same sex couples kissing, etc.. That is between them and God.
So maybe what a Christian photographer could say is, "I don't take photos of things I find offensive to me and my God; anywhere, at any time, or for anyone."

 

[FireDragon76]

It is not for you or me to say if it violates someone's conscience to take photos of same sex couples kissing, etc.. That is between them and God.
So maybe what a Christian photographer could say is, "I don't take photos of things I find offensive to me and my God; anywhere, at any time, or for anyone."

If someone's conscience is in error, I certainly am not bound to respect their erroneous conscience, only to point out there error. The Bible does not teach discrimination against gay people. It is not a Christian value.

If a Christian wishes to be a "martyr" for this issue, they will not have my sympathy and I expect the full weight of Caesar's sword to be used upon them because they are in violation of our religion's duty to treat others fairly. It is heinous to use the name of Christ to justify prejudice. Jesus taught an ethic of love and service, not fear or contempt. That is what is offensive to God.

 

[Hank77]

The Bible never condemns orientation, even to a certain degree physical intimacy, only explicitly sexual behaviors (and I use the term sexual narrowly).

And what is loosely called marriage almost always does have sexual contact. If intimate, romantic kissing is not sexual contact then many cases of sexual assault are not sexual assault.
Once again, if that behavior is interpreted as sexual, which it is by most people including the law, then you and I cannot decide for someone else what violates their conscience, which is not of faith, and therefore, for them it is sin. THEY believe they are sinning.

When we try to play around with God's plain words, we get into trouble. It's just like our Founding Fathers allowing for slavery of the blacks and people condoning it because of the OT. But they ignored this statement in Moses' Law.

Exo 21:16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.

 

[JackRT]

Photography (Weddings) Business and Homosexual Agenda

The only "homosexual agenda" that I am aware of is the desire to be treated as a person in exactly the same way that everyone else is treated as a person.

 

[FireDragon76]

When we try to play around with God's plain words, we get into trouble.

I agree. Which is a good reason not to attempt to baptize our prejudices and call it holy. The anti-gay theology of many American evangelicals is based on nothing more than traditional prejudice and fear of the other. It cannot withstand God's Word.

It's just like our Founding Fathers allowing for slavery of the blacks and people condoning it because of the OT. But they ignored this statement in Moses' Law.

Mosaic law has alot to say about fair treatment of outsiders and strangers. In Jesus' ministry, that translated to compassion for those who were marginalized, misunderstood, and demonized. Victims of bad religion. Not that different from gays in today's world, since gays over the centuries have often been villified and their humanity has been negated in the name of God. The good news is that Christ has died to set us free to love our neighbor, without exception.

 

[FireDragon76]

From the Lutheran POV, my motivation should not be to avoid sin, but to glorify God by serving my neighbor. The Lutheran thing to do, is to live in with a bold confidence in God's grace, knowing that there is no condemnation for those in Christ.

I am a sinner by birth and will always be a sinner. Indeed, as Bonhoeffer said, "To escape sin may be the ultimate guilt". There is no power in me to change that, no amount of calculation, effort, religious study, discipline, piety, "methodism" or anything of the sort can help me there. But by God's grace, I can do good works inasmuch as they help my neighbor in his or her needs, and it is here the Ten Commandments are a guide. I do good works not for my sake, but for my neighbor's sake and for Christ's sake. That is what a genuine good work is.

The Ten Commandments, when properly applied, are nothing more than loving others the way Jesus loved. When Jesus ate with tax collectors and prostitutes, people scoffed at him, and of course the usual suspects, the religious establishment, had objections to being around sinners. Just as they do even today. The righteousness they sought was a false righteousness, a righteousness that came from their own human pride, their own ability to interpret the Scriptures to their suiting.

Indeed, to escape sin may be the ultimate guilt.

 

[Phil 1:21]

"I didn't kill Stephen; I just watched the clothes of the men who threw the stones."

 

[Zoii]

No, I was responding to your post which said, 'doing a job for someone is not a sinful act.' and I gave an example where it definitely would be.
I am not saying that photographer would be, but the photographer could certainly believe that they are.

Sorry, I intended, 'OR' rather than 'AND'.
"You don't see anything wrong with same-sex couples so you are not going to understand why a photographer may have a problem in this type of a situation and maybe you just aren't good at putting yourself in another person's shoes."
Even so that is making an assumption, which I hate it when someone does that to me.
I apologize.

If the law said I had to violate God's law, no I wouldn't.

Rom 14:23 But he that doubteth is condemned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith; and whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

If one is violating their conscience it is sin for them.

Hmmm....I guess thats where we have to stand apart. I still cant see why you think youre breaking Gods law by providing a service to a gay wedding - whether it be providing food, photography, electricity or selling shoes.

Plus I cant advocate for anyone breaking the law. And this is a scenario that may involve the law.

 

[LinkH]

But, simply put, we hate what they do. We hate pedophilia, we hate polygamy, we hate incest, we hate heroin use, and we hate inappropriate behavior with animals. It DOESN'T MATTER that, logically, these impulses are no different from the legal ones, and that, "by the same logic" we would be on the path to legalizing all such impulses. The fact remains: law is not determined by logic or by a computer. It is decided upon by people, and it is based on human emotions. What we want or like, or can tolerate, we legalize. What we despise, we outlaw and punish. It doesn't matter that the people we punish "can't help it". If they can't help it, then they are rabid dogs who need to be removed from society, and the law does that for us.

That it's "unfair" to those people that THEIR weakness is punished while, say, the gays, or the divorcees, or the pot users, or the serial fornicators, are not, is irrelevant, really. Sure it's unfair. So what? It ain't about fairness, it's about power.

I think you understimate the capacity of a society that has abandoned God to embrace worse and worse morality. Sure, society hates pedophilia now, but they could strt their own propaganda campaign to convince people that sex with kids doesn't hrut them. They could get their own version of Ellen Degeneris, and whatever other celebs people like. They could start with pushing acceptance for female pedophiles, or are tolerated more and get lighter sentences than the men.


Who would have thought 30 or even 20 years ago our society would be where it is today, where otherwise seemingly normal and sane people would be in favor of so called 'gay marriage'? Whose to say things can't go more downhill from here?

 

[LinkH]

How about having just a set number of designs of cakes she offers. Everything has something that refers to a man and a woman on it, except for one, which quotes some verses from Leviticus on it.

 

[Vicomte13]

I think you understimate the capacity of a society that has abandoned God to embrace worse and worse morality. Sure, society hates pedophilia now, but they could strt their own propaganda campaign to convince people that sex with kids doesn't hrut them. They could get their own version of Ellen Degeneris, and whatever other celebs people like. They could start with pushing acceptance for female pedophiles, or are tolerated more and get lighter sentences than the men.


Who would have thought 30 or even 20 years ago our society would be where it is today, where otherwise seemingly normal and sane people would be in favor of so called 'gay marriage'? Whose to say things can't go more downhill from here?

I rather expect that to be the course, to tell you the truth.

In the rural Muslim cultures, where women are segregated from men, and where there is slavery, it is perfectly normal for adult men to buy adolescent boys and keep them for sex. These boys then become adults and go on to do the same.

In pre-Christian Greek and Roman culture, pederaste was utterly normal, and it still is in the fleshpots of East and South Asia.

As Christianity recedes, these natural ways of man return.