Pews, head covering, and traditionalism

Oct 16, 2017
10
5
Texas
✟8,220.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I would like to ask those of you who are Eastern Orthodox:

Does your parish church building have pews or chairs? Or is it open (standing room only)?

Does your parish church still practice head covering for women (and head uncovered for men)? Is it expected? Or up to the individual? (And yes, I'm aware the priests/Bishops etc wear head coverings/mitres etc at various parts of the liturgy, not asking about that.)

Finally, is your parish church more traditionalist, or "contemporary/modern" in its worship, practices, customs, etc? Do you think Eastern Orthodox churches in the West are moving in one direction or the other? Should they? Do you find that people are more attracted to a more traditionalist expression of Orthodoxy, or a more modern, Westernized expression?
 

Jesus4Madrid

Orthodox Christian
Jul 21, 2011
1,064
755
✟90,072.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
I would like to ask those of you who are Eastern Orthodox:

Does your parish church building have pews or chairs? Or is it open (standing room only)?

Does your parish church still practice head covering for women (and head uncovered for men)? Is it expected? Or up to the individual? (And yes, I'm aware the priests/Bishops etc wear head coverings/mitres etc at various parts of the liturgy, not asking about that.)

Finally, is your parish church more traditionalist, or "contemporary/modern" in its worship, practices, customs, etc? Do you think Eastern Orthodox churches in the West are moving in one direction or the other? Should they? Do you find that people are more attracted to a more traditionalist expression of Orthodoxy, or a more modern, Westernized expression?

We have benches around the edge of the parish, but otherwise we stand, as St. John Chrysostom's liturgy often exhorts us.

Most women in my Russian Orthodox parish cover their heads, though it is a completely personal decision. Women in Greek churches that I have visited in Israel do not cover.

As for "contemporary worship", um, no. We chant as the ancient church did. Orthodoxy doesn't do contemporary worship, I think you will find. That is likely due to a healthy aversion to innovation. We believe as we pray and the way we pray doesn't change. There are some differences in singing styles between Slavic and Greek churches, but little impetus for innovation.
 
Upvote 0

FenderTL5

Κύριε, ἐλέησον.
Site Supporter
Jun 13, 2016
5,085
5,960
Nashville TN
✟634,456.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-American-Solidarity
I would like to ask those of you who are Eastern Orthodox:

Does your parish church building have pews or chairs? Or is it open (standing room only)?

Does your parish church still practice head covering for women (and head uncovered for men)? Is it expected? Or up to the individual? (And yes, I'm aware the priests/Bishops etc wear head coverings/mitres etc at various parts of the liturgy, not asking about that.)

Finally, is your parish church more traditionalist, or "contemporary/modern" in its worship, practices, customs, etc? Do you think Eastern Orthodox churches in the West are moving in one direction or the other? Should they? Do you find that people are more attracted to a more traditionalist expression of Orthodoxy, or a more modern, Westernized expression?
We have chairs and some pews. However most stand throughout the services. Many women in our parish wear head coverings, some do do not. i suppose it's left to the individual. No hats for men indoors.
Our services are chanted, during some services there may be a small choir singing response parts. It's my understanding that the modern, westernized, element in our parish is the inclusion of the English language instead of only using Greek. Our services are about half English/Greek it can vary depending on who/how many is/are chanting.
 
Upvote 0

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,560
20,079
41
Earth
✟1,466,215.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I would like to ask those of you who are Eastern Orthodox:

Does your parish church building have pews or chairs? Or is it open (standing room only)?

Does your parish church still practice head covering for women (and head uncovered for men)? Is it expected? Or up to the individual? (And yes, I'm aware the priests/Bishops etc wear head coverings/mitres etc at various parts of the liturgy, not asking about that.)

Finally, is your parish church more traditionalist, or "contemporary/modern" in its worship, practices, customs, etc? Do you think Eastern Orthodox churches in the West are moving in one direction or the other? Should they? Do you find that people are more attracted to a more traditionalist expression of Orthodoxy, or a more modern, Westernized expression?

no pews, most cover their heads but it is not required, and I think the West is diverging from her Orthodox roots.
 
Upvote 0

~Anastasia~

† Handmaid of God †
Dec 1, 2013
31,133
17,455
Florida panhandle, USA
✟922,775.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I would like to ask those of you who are Eastern Orthodox:

Does your parish church building have pews or chairs? Or is it open (standing room only)?

Does your parish church still practice head covering for women (and head uncovered for men)? Is it expected? Or up to the individual? (And yes, I'm aware the priests/Bishops etc wear head coverings/mitres etc at various parts of the liturgy, not asking about that.)

Finally, is your parish church more traditionalist, or "contemporary/modern" in its worship, practices, customs, etc? Do you think Eastern Orthodox churches in the West are moving in one direction or the other? Should they? Do you find that people are more attracted to a more traditionalist expression of Orthodoxy, or a more modern, Westernized expression?

Hello, and welcome to CF, and to TAW! I pray you are blessed by being here. :)

Our parish has pews, though we actually stand during most of the service. (Being in the choir I stand for pretty much all of it.) The local Antiochian parish has pews because they bought an existing building and they were already there. Of the parishes I have visited, about half have pews and half do not. It is often depending on jurisdiction. I prefer no pews, but otoh I have noticed that it serves to keep some children better corralled and less a distraction during the Liturgy (forgive me, I am getting old lol).

Men are expected to remove hats inside. Some women cover their heads (I do). It is optional, and probably less than half do. The older ladies tell me it became the usual to wear hats instead of head coverings, and then when they went out of fashion many stopped doing it. Again it depends on jurisdiction. Head coverings are expected in many parishes. Personally I feel if current fashion effected a change in practice, that ought not to have happened.

Our parish is probably less traditional than some because we have some singing in 4-part harmony (though even then we follow the tones), and sometimes there is an organ providing either a tone cue or playing music chords. However, we also have traditional Byzantine chant. We use both Greek and English in our services, because there are parishioners who understand only one or the other. But of course our Liturgy is still the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, and our hymns were mostly written in the early centuries. We use the same ones used for many centuries. If you mean "contemporary" like the "praise and worship" bands and music in many denominational gatherings today - no, no Orthodox Church does that, nor would we, nor should we.

What we "should" do in terms of expression as we tend to vary is a matter for the bishops. But when Orthodoxy is carried to various countries, it has adapted somewhat to those cultures in terms of language and musical expression, has it not? I like ours just as it is. I don't want to lose the Greek and Byzantine chant we have, not at all. But I do appreciate being able to hear in English as well, and appreciate our sung hymns too.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

~Anastasia~

† Handmaid of God †
Dec 1, 2013
31,133
17,455
Florida panhandle, USA
✟922,775.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
no pews, most cover their heads but it is not required, and I think the West is diverging from her Orthodox roots.
I am particularly very concerned if that divergence affects theology ... and wish to be aware of that.
 
Upvote 0

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,560
20,079
41
Earth
✟1,466,215.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I am particularly very concerned if that divergence affects theology ... and wish to be aware of that.

not really for the Orthodox in the West, but Western Christianity. they keep going further from their Apostolic roots, which we have maintained.
 
Upvote 0

~Anastasia~

† Handmaid of God †
Dec 1, 2013
31,133
17,455
Florida panhandle, USA
✟922,775.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
not really for the Orthodox in the West, but Western Christianity. they keep going further from their Apostolic roots, which we have maintained.
Ohhhhh I se what you mean. Goodness yes, that is very apparent everywhere you look. Thank you for explaining.
 
Upvote 0

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,560
20,079
41
Earth
✟1,466,215.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Ohhhhh I se what you mean. Goodness yes, that is very apparent everywhere you look. Thank you for explaining.

yeah, we gotta keep vigilant since those errors face us living in the West. thanks be to God for His Church.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: ~Anastasia~
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Oct 16, 2017
10
5
Texas
✟8,220.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Thank you all for the responses! And for the welcome! :)

I think I may have been unclear, I probably should have clarified what I meant by contemporary. I meant more modernized in the expression of faith. One here mentioned the use of an organ - I'm kind of surprised to hear about an organ in an Eastern Orthodox service! lol

I was really surprised to hear about Greek Orthodox women in Israel not covering, that's really kind of shocking to me.

Were all of you folks raised Orthodox? Or did you convert? If you converted, was it difficult to adjust to the Liturgical worship?
 
Upvote 0

gzt

The age of the Earth is 4.54 ± 0.07 billion years
Jul 14, 2004
10,599
1,872
Abolish ICE
Visit site
✟117,925.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
I'm opposed to all of the above. Pews are like coffins for prayer, mandatory headcoverings are just silly, and "traditioanlism" is often cover for the worst excesses of history and a glorification of cultural artifacts rather than a search for truth.
 
Upvote 0

~Anastasia~

† Handmaid of God †
Dec 1, 2013
31,133
17,455
Florida panhandle, USA
✟922,775.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Thank you all for the responses! And for the welcome! :)

I think I may have been unclear, I probably should have clarified what I meant by contemporary. I meant more modernized in the expression of faith. One here mentioned the use of an organ - I'm kind of surprised to hear about an organ in an Eastern Orthodox service! lol

I was really surprised to hear about Greek Orthodox women in Israel not covering, that's really kind of shocking to me.

Were all of you folks raised Orthodox? Or did you convert? If you converted, was it difficult to adjust to the Liturgical worship?
I understand. If I'm not mistaken, I have seen drums and other hand instruments used in Orthodox services in Africa, and really that shocked me to hear the sound of their music. But it's just unfamiliar to me.

To answer your further question, I converted to Orthodoxy. It took a little bit to adjust to liturgical worship, but I had visited Protestant denominations with liturgical worship, and I was motivated. It wasn't that difficult for me - just unfamiliar.
 
Upvote 0

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,560
20,079
41
Earth
✟1,466,215.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Thank you all for the responses! And for the welcome! :)

I think I may have been unclear, I probably should have clarified what I meant by contemporary. I meant more modernized in the expression of faith. One here mentioned the use of an organ - I'm kind of surprised to hear about an organ in an Eastern Orthodox service! lol

I was really surprised to hear about Greek Orthodox women in Israel not covering, that's really kind of shocking to me.

Were all of you folks raised Orthodox? Or did you convert? If you converted, was it difficult to adjust to the Liturgical worship?

it depends. we'll use whatever doesn't interfere or distract from worship. so you do see instruments (we use bells, Africa uses drums, there is a thing called a talanton which calls folks to services, some Greek parishes use organs, etc.). the question for us is not if we can use contemporary stuff, but where is its proper place.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ~Anastasia~
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

rusmeister

A Russified American Orthodox Chestertonian
Dec 9, 2005
10,407
5,026
Eastern Europe
Visit site
✟435,470.00
Country
Montenegro
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
By no means everyone thinks headcovering silly, and I would not suggest that the women who do cover are silly. That one person doesn't see the reason for a thing doesn't mean that others also can't see why. Personally, I do see a good reason for the rule that men and women must dress differently. In a culture gone insane on denying the two sexes, all reminders that there are two and that they are different are healthy.
 
Upvote 0

~Anastasia~

† Handmaid of God †
Dec 1, 2013
31,133
17,455
Florida panhandle, USA
✟922,775.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I'm opposed to all of the above. Pews are like coffins for prayer, mandatory headcoverings are just silly, and "traditioanlism" is often cover for the worst excesses of history and a glorification of cultural artifacts rather than a search for truth.
But most of all I'm opposed to the false dichotomy between "traditionalism" and "modern, Western" whatever.

I love you, gzt ... but I admit I almost wanted to ask you .... what are you NOT opposed to? ;)

That part is a bit tongue in cheek ... forgive me, I'm really not looking to offend.

But the real reason for my reply is that you stated in there that our purpose is a search for truth? I had to wonder - haven't we been given the Truth? I don't mean this as an attack, and if you are just having a bad day, I hope it gets better. And you don't have to reply. But that comment just struck me, as a whole.

God be with you, my brother.
 
Upvote 0

gzt

The age of the Earth is 4.54 ± 0.07 billion years
Jul 14, 2004
10,599
1,872
Abolish ICE
Visit site
✟117,925.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
But the real reason for my reply is that you stated in there that our purpose is a search for truth? I had to wonder - haven't we been given the Truth? .
Yes, we have been given the Truth in the Church in the person of Jesus Christ.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Yeshua HaDerekh

Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it
May 9, 2013
11,459
3,771
Eretz
✟317,562.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
By no means everyone thinks headcovering silly, and I would not suggest that the women who do cover are silly. That one person doesn't see the reason for a thing doesn't mean that others also can't see why. Personally, I do see a good reason for the rule that men and women must dress differently. In a culture gone insane on denying the two sexes, all reminders that there are two and that they are different are healthy.

Ever think that in the Judaic Christian churches all had head coverings but the sexes were separated, while in the gentile Christian churches, none were wearing head coverings and there was no separation of sexes as well, so head coverings were added for women? Just a thought.
 
Upvote 0