Peter's Kingdom Bride Church Versus Paul's Mystery Body of Christ 12.31.2019

[JLHargus]

Guojing: How would you address this phrase in the KJV "Since the world began"? Performing a search in the KJV bible, here are some places where it appears.

Luke 1 67And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: 71That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; 72To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; 73The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Both the Luke and Acts account are speaking of the same thing, which is how Jesus came as a promise from God to the Jews, to be their King, their Messiah, their redeemer. This is the Gospel of the Kingdom.

JL: The phrase “Since the world began”? I see it as hyperbole, I would be surprised if you have never said something similar. Such as, I have known that forever or everyone has known that since the beginning of time.

The first time the gospel=good news, a Savior, was revealed was to Adam and Eve, the parents of all humanity, whether Jew or Gentile. I suppose Gn3 could be considered the beginning of "The World”, as Adam and Eve have sinned and are removed from the garden. The creation begins to decay and humanity must work for his food.

[Gn3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.]k

 

[Jack Terrence]

First Peter was written by a regenerate believer in the resurrected Son of God to regenerate believers in the resurrected Son of God about regenerate believers in the resurrected Son of God. It was not written to or about unregnerate bloodline Jews, nor the geo-political nation-state of first century Israel. This is clearly stated in the opening lines of his epistle,

False. Peter addressed both believing and unbelieving Jews.

 

[Josheb]

False. Peter addressed both believing and unbelieving Jews.

First, I stated to whom and about whom Peter was writing. I did say, "addressed." SO please don't move the goal posts, misrepresent what was posted and then argue a traw men. Yes? We can agree such practices should be avoided?

Second, the opening of his epistles state otherwise.

1 Peter 1:1-2
"1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen 2according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood....."​

2 Peter 1:1
"1Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ..."​

According to Peter, in Peter's own words, Peter was not writing to both believing and unbelieving Jews. According to Peter, in Peter's own words, Peter was writing to those "who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God" and the sanctifying work of the Spirit to obey Christ, those "sprinkled with his blood," and those who "have received a faith" like Peter's by he righteousness of the Savior, Jesus Christ.

Go back to the passages cited and examine the "audience identifiers;" the "we," "us," and "you," and note any mention of "their" or "them."



Otherwise, make the case for the dissent because the two evidence-less statements, "False. Peter addressed both believing and unbelieving Jews," don't prove or disprove anything.

 

[Guojing]

Guojing: How would you address this phrase in the KJV "Since the world began"? Performing a search in the KJV bible, here are some places where it appears.

Luke 1 67And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: 71That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; 72To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; 73The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Both the Luke and Acts account are speaking of the same thing, which is how Jesus came as a promise from God to the Jews, to be their King, their Messiah, their redeemer. This is the Gospel of the Kingdom.

JL: The phrase “Since the world began”? I see it as hyperbole, I would be surprised if you have never said something similar. Such as, I have known that forever or everyone has known that since the beginning of time.

The first time the gospel=good news, a Savior, was revealed was to Adam and Eve, the parents of all humanity, whether Jew or Gentile. I suppose Gn3 could be considered the beginning of "The World”, as Adam and Eve have sinned and are removed from the garden. The creation begins to decay and humanity must work for his food.

[Gn3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.]k

You have not addressed my question actually.

How can the same gospel be both a secret and not a secret at the same time?

 

[JLHargus]

You have not addressed my question actually.

How can the same gospel be both a secret and not a secret at the same time?

JL: Could you inform me how the gospel would be different because of a secret? Could you clarify what that secret would be?

Also I see you have posted previously the 4 gospels are for Jews only, I would appreciate for my own information, are those the only books for Jews only? What if any books do not apply to Jews and what applies to Gentiles only or books that apply to both? thanks.

 

[Guojing]

JL: Could you inform me how the gospel would be different because of a secret? Could you clarify what that secret would be?

Also I see you have posted previously the 4 gospels are for Jews only, I would appreciate for my own information, are those the only books for Jews only? What if any books do not apply to Jews and what applies to Gentiles only or books that apply to both? thanks.

Secrets would include Jews and Gentiles being equal in the Body of Christ, the rapture of the Body of Christ before the Tribulation etc.

Such are not known in OT prophecy. The OT prophets only saw Israel as the chosen race and all strangers will be serving them, for example in Isaiah (Isaiah 60:10)

 

[Marilyn C]

Greetings to All:

John the Baptist, Jesus Christ and the Twelve preached the “Gospel of the Kingdom” to Israel only during the Four Gospels and early Acts for gathering the Prophetic Kingdom “Bride” (Jn 3:29). Israel was to accept the good news that the kingdom of heaven was “at hand” to become a “royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession (1Pet. 2:9) in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy. As it is written,

Terral

I agree with most of what you wrote which is great to hear. Good truth that is much needed today as we come to the final `maturing of the Body.` (Eph. 4: 13)

Now just a small detail.
I was taught that Israel (under Christ) will have a king and there will be priests also.
The Body of Christ however are Kingpriests, (as the Lord is the Head and High priest and king).

Thus another of the differences between Israel`s rulership and the Body of Christ`s rulership.

Yes Peter said `You are a royal priesthood,` but we know that his inheritance is in the New Jerusalem, while the Body of Christ`s inheritance is in the third heaven on Christ`s own throne, (Rev. 3: 21).
Notice the word YOU, and NOT WE, showing that Peter was not referring to himself in that group.

Great to discuss such a wonderful truth with you, thank you.

 

[Dan Perez]

I agree with most of what you wrote which is great to hear. Good truth that is much needed today as we come to the final `maturing of the Body.` (Eph. 4: 13)

Now just a small detail.
I was taught that Israel (under Christ) will have a king and there will be priests also.
The Body of Christ however are Kingpriests, (as the Lord is the Head and High priest and king).

Thus another of the differences between Israel`s rulership and the Body of Christ`s rulership.

Yes Peter said `You are a royal priesthood,` but we know that his inheritance is in the New Jerusalem, while the Body of Christ`s inheritance is in the third heaven on Christ`s own throne, (Rev. 3: 21).
Notice the word YOU, and NOT WE, showing that Peter was not referring to himself in that group.

Great to discuss such a wonderful truth with you, thank you.

Hi and in Rev 1:4 we see that it is not talking to the BODY OF CHRIST , but to the 7 churches in ASIA !

Then in verse 6 the Greek words KINGS , PRIESTS , EVER are all in the ACCUSATIVE CASE that 6 is LIMITED to those in ASIA , is what I see in the Greek text and check BIBLE HUB and check it out !

dan p

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi and in Rev 1:4 we see that it is not talking to the BODY OF CHRIST , but to the 7 churches in ASIA !

Then in verse 6 the Greek words KINGS , PRIESTS , EVER are all in the ACCUSATIVE CASE that 6 is LIMITED to those in ASIA , is what I see in the Greek text and check BIBLE HUB and check it out !

dan p

Hi dan,

The book of revelation is the unfolding of the splendours of the Son of Man and to reveal His glorious person. There are four visions of the Son of Man as He is known in the heavenly realm.

1. Christ the Head of the Body. (Rev. 1 - 3)
This reveals the empowered Son of Man as the Sovereign Administrator.
`in His right hand he held the 7 stars.` (Rev. 1: 16)

2. Christ the Heir.
3. Christ the Mediator of the New Covenant.
4. Christ the Judge.

In Rev. 1 we see Christ as Head of the Body, - `from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first-born from the dead....to Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory for ever and ever. Amen.` (Rev. 1: 5 & 6)

1. Christ is the first- born among many brethren. (Body of Christ)
2. Christ is pre-eminent in their (B/C) midst. (Rev. 1: 13)
3. Kings and priests are of the Melchizedek order of which Christ is High priest. (Heb. 6: 20)
4. Only kingpriests rule on Christ`s own throne. It is the highest order of rulership. (Rev. 3: 21)

Thus we see that these 7 churches are the complete Body of Christ across the world and across the centuries.

 

[Dan Perez]

Hi dan,

The book of revelation is the unfolding of the splendours of the Son of Man and to reveal His glorious person. There are four visions of the Son of Man as He is known in the heavenly realm.

1. Christ the Head of the Body. (Rev. 1 - 3)
This reveals the empowered Son of Man as the Sovereign Administrator.
`in His right hand he held the 7 stars.` (Rev. 1: 16)

2. Christ the Heir.
3. Christ the Mediator of the New Covenant.
4. Christ the Judge.

In Rev. 1 we see Christ as Head of the Body, - `from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first-born from the dead....to Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory for ever and ever. Amen.` (Rev. 1: 5 & 6)

1. Christ is the first- born among many brethren. (Body of Christ)
2. Christ is pre-eminent in their (B/C) midst. (Rev. 1: 13)
3. Kings and priests are of the Melchizedek order of which Christ is High priest. (Heb. 6: 20)
4. Only kingpriests rule on Christ`s own throne. It is the highest order of rulership. (Rev. 3: 21)

Thus we see that these 7 churches are the complete Body of Christ across the world and across the centuries.

Hi and I see nothing but Israel in the book of Revelation and thanks for your reply as the dispensation of the MYSTERY was only given to Paul , Rom 16:25 .

dan p

 

[5thKingdom]

Hi and I see nothing but Israel in the book of Revelation and thanks for your reply as the dispensation of the MYSTERY was only given to Paul , Rom 16:25 .
dan p

Dan,


So you DO NOT see the people living during the Revelation Beast as
the SAME people living in the Great Tribulation and the SAME people
living during Daniel's Fourth Beast/Kingdom... even though


(a) In each case they are the PEOPLE living on earth when the Lord Returns and


(b) they are referred to as the "ten virgins" who "went forth" with the Antichrist [Mat 25:1-13] and the ten "horns/kings" who are "subdued" and "worn out" by the "Little Horn" (Antichrist)... and specifically NAMED "the saints" [Daniel 7:24-25] and they are the ten "horns/kings" that "agree to give their Kingdom to the Beast", which is also the Antichrist [Rev 17:12-13, 17]


It seems pretty clear these are all the SAME PEOPLE and the
SAME EVENTS...


How do you harmonize these three passages which are clearly
talking about the PEOPLE in the Revelation Beast and Daniel's
Fourth Beast and the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"
[Mat 25:1]


Jim

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi and I see nothing but Israel in the book of Revelation and thanks for your reply as the dispensation of the MYSTERY was only given to Paul , Rom 16:25 .

dan p

Yes I agree that the Body of Christ revelation was given to the Apostle Paul. That revelation was the understanding of what God was doing, but it does not say that that is when the Body of Christ started. The Lord was building His Body before that as is shown -

`And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists and some pastors and teachers for the equipping of the saints for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the Body of Christ,...` (Eph.4: 11 & 12)

And we see that there were `some apostles`( after the ascension of Christ) BEFORE the apostle Paul.

`Greet Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ BEFORE me.` (Rom. 16: 7)

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi and I see nothing but Israel in the book of Revelation
dan p

I agree that the Lord is revealing His purposes for Israel in much of revelation, however to think that the 7 churches in Rev. 1-3 are Israel, is in error.

Israel does not have the highest calling.
Only the Body of Christ is called to sit with Christ on His own throne in the third heaven. (Rev. 3: 21)
The representative 24 elders of the Body of Christ around His throne reveal this high calling. (Rev. 4: 4) The Apostle Paul encourages us to `press toward the goal of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.` (Phil. 3: 14)

 

[5thKingdom]

I agree that the Lord is revealing His purposes for Israel in much of revelation...

Really?
What passages in Revelation do you think applies to Israel and NOT to the
"ten virgins" of Matthew 25 or the ten "horns/kings" of Daniel 7:24-25
(who are called "the saints") and the ten "horns/kings" of Revelation 17
(who had no kingdom until AFTER the Great Commission - v17:12-13)

Jim

 

[readywriter]

Greetings to All:

John the Baptist, Jesus Christ and the Twelve preached the “Gospel of the Kingdom” to Israel only during the Four Gospels and early Acts for gathering the Prophetic Kingdom “Bride” (Jn 3:29). Israel was to accept the good news that the kingdom of heaven was “at hand” to become a “royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession (1Pet. 2:9) in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy. As it is written,


Jesus Christ chooses Peter to lead the Kingdom Church offering the “keys of the kingdom” while establishing specific terms, saying,


Jesus Christ lays down basic rules for the disciples and this newly forming Kingdom Church, saying,


This Kingdom Church is based in “Jerusalem” (Acts 8:1, 11:22, 15:4) representing the Capitol of the Kingdom of Priests (Ex. 19:6) “on earth AS IT IS in heaven.” Matt. 6:10. Kingdom Disciples from the Kingdom Church are under Mosaic Law, until heaven and earth pass away (Matt. 5:17-19, James 2:10) being “justified by works and not by faith alone” (James 2:24). Kingdom Disciples have three baptisms (Acts 19:1-6) in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit (Matt. 28:19). Kingdom Disciples in the Kingdom Church do not have eternal security and must “endure to the end” (Matt. 24:13) to be saved and must be baptized in water for the forgiveness of sins (Mark 16:15-16, 1Peter 3:21).

Our Body of Christ Mystery Church (Eph. 5:32, Col. 1:24) was not seen by the Old Testament prophets (Eph. 3:4-9) with Gentile-dominant churches established throughout the known world (Rom. 1:8). Our citizenship is in “heaven” (Phil. 3:20) and we are under grace and not under law. Rom. 6:14. Body of Christ church members are justified by faith apart from works (Rom. 4:4-6) and our mystery church started with Paul on the road to Damascus (Acts 9:15).

Body of Christ church members receive only “one baptism” (Eph. 4:5) done by the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:13-14, 4:30) upon hearing and believing the Gospel of the Grace of God part of the “whole purpose of God” (Acts 20:24-27) that includes a Mystery Body Church “and” a Kingdom Bride Church described above gathered via “preaching the kingdom.” Christ Body members have eternal security being seated in the heavenly places “in” Christ Jesus (Eph. 2:4-7) with lives hidden with Christ “in” God. Col. 3:3. Brethren in Christ are addressed only by the Apostle Paul (1Cor. 14:37-38) are saved by obeying our gospel without adding works (Rom. 1:16-17, 1Cor. 1:21, Eph. 2:8-9).

Do you see the differences between Peter’s Prophetic Kingdom Bride Church and Paul’s Mystery Body of Christ Church in the world today? Good luck in the debate.

Blessings,

Terral

Hello @Terral,

I agree with what you say, except in relation to one point. You say that 'our mystery church started with Paul on the road to Damascus (Acts 9:15)' - I believe it began by revelation of God to Paul, during his imprisonment at Rome, and came into force after Israel departed finally into the blindness of unbelief at Acts 28.

'And I said, Who art Thou, Lord?
And He said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
but rise, and stand upon thy feet:
for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose,
to make thee a minister and a witness
both of these things which thou hast seen,
and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light,
and from the power of Satan unto God,
that they may receive forgiveness of sins,
and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in Me.'
(Act 26:15-18)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Marilyn C]

Really?
What passages in Revelation do you think applies to Israel and NOT to the
"ten virgins" of Matthew 25 or the ten "horns/kings" of Daniel 7:24-25
(who are called "the saints") and the ten "horns/kings" of Revelation 17
(who had no kingdom until AFTER the Great Commission - v17:12-13)

Jim

Hi 5thKingdom,

Oh so sorry to have missed your reply. Don`t know why that happened. However I would like to reply now.

You ask - What passsages for Israel & not 10 virgins? I believe the 10 virgins are Israel as that is whom the Lord was speaking to. Note the `kingdom of heaven,` the rulership of heaven over the earth was promised to Israel in the OT.

The 10 horns/kings of Dan. 7: 24 - 25, (& Rev. 17: 12, 16 & 17)are the 10 king Federation of the final Gentile Global Government under the A/C & Satan. The `saints` that shall inherit that kingdom/ rulership over the nations of the world is Israel as promised.

regards, Marilyn.