Peter's Kingdom Bride Church Versus Paul's Mystery Body of Christ 12.31.2019

[Josheb]

If there is only one kingdom (ridiculous statement), and Christ's kingdom is not of this world and not of this realm, then your universe has no kingdoms at all. Paul speaks of "His heavenly kingdom" in 2Tim. 4:18. Scripture says: [2 Tim. 4:18][/indent]
His kingdom not being of this world does not mean it does not include the earth. You've got a false equivalency error going there, Terral.

1. His Heavenly Kingdom.
2. David's kingdom.

Already your "one kingdom" theory (nothing to do with this topic) is shown to be false. This is how you "quote >>" from the OP to show something false using Scripture, if you ever want to write on this topic.

No, an appeal to 1 Kings 12 does not trump what God inspired Peter to say. Acts 2 trumps Hosea, Joel, and 1 Kings. What was veiled in the OT has been revealed in the NT. The OT informs the NT and the NT interprets the OT.

You've got to learn some basics of proper hermeneutics.

Peter informed the Pentecost audience the prophesies about David's throne were fulfilled with Christ's resurrection and ascension.

Acts 2:22-37
“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know— this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it. For David says concerning him, ‘I saw the Lord always before me, for he is at my right hand that I may not be shaken; therefore my heart was glad, and my tongue rejoiced; my flesh also will dwell in hope. For you will not abandon my soul to Hades, or let your Holy One see corruption. You have made known to me the paths of life; you will make me full of gladness with your presence.’ Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says, ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.’ Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.” Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart...."​

Read it through a couple of times until the significance of what Peter is saying is fully understood.

The matter is plainly stated: David spoke about the resurrection of Christ.

That's what the text states, not what I made it say.


Go take a look at 2 Samuel 7. There you will note God asks David rhetorically when has He ever lived in a house built by human hands? Surely you know of the many places in scripture where it is stated, "God does not live in houses built by human hands" (see Isaiah 66:1, Acts 7:48, and Acts 17:24). God tells David three persons will build His house: 1) God Himself would build that house, 2) God's son would build that house, and 3) David's son would build that house.

Look it up.

In other words, three people would build David's house. Or it would be one person who fulfilled all three criteria! David was told the person would be a descendant of David's, that person's rule would last forever, and he would be a man of peace.

Look it up.

David, thinking his next child would be the one to fulfill that prophesy named his next son "Solomon," because Solomon" means peace. It is true Israel did eventually enjoy a period of peace under Solomon but it was only after a few executions and wars solidified his rule and in the end Solomon, like all the other kings was an adulterous and idolatrous king who declared all of life "Vanity! Vanity!" "Meaningless! Meaningless!" Why was David prohibited from building God's house? Because he had blood on his hands! So did Solomon. Note not only was he not a man of peace but Solomon was eighth or ninth in line for the throne. He was not the heir. God named the boy Jedidiah (2 Sam. 12:25) but David named him Peace in a fleshly effort to fulfill the prophesies he'd learned from God. Lastly, when David is on his death bed and he recounts what God told him.... he changes what God said (1 Chr. 22).

Look it all up, Terral. See that what I have posted is correct.

Jesus is the three-in-one temple builder whose reign will never end. Jesus is the man, the Prince of Peace. David could not fathom that God Himself would come to earth, that he would die and resurrect defeating death, and God Himself would come live in humans. The New Testament tells us all these things are true. We are the temple of God (1 Cor. 3:16)! We are the co-heirs of Christ who will be seated with Christ on his throne (Rev. 3:21). We are the royal priesthood - the recombining of the civil and religious rule into one role, just as it was in Eden, in Salem, in the Judges, in Christ, and now with the converts to Christ where there is neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female, slave nor free.

You already know these things to be correct.


In other words, the heavenly kingdom and the Davidic throne are ot mutually exclusive conditions. Peter stated it quite plainly in Acts 2:30-31. The prophesies about the Davidic throne must be understood through what God told everyone on the day of Pentecost:

David was speaking of Christ's resurrection.

God was speaking of Christ's resurrection.


Adjust thinking, doctrine, and practice accordingly.

 

[Josheb]

I mentioned earlier that I was going to provide some commentary on the "royal priesthood."

In Eden there was no priesthood other than Adan and Eve. Both Adam and Eve we made in God's image. Both people were given all authority over all the plants and animals in Eden and they were charged with subduing the whole earth and ruling over it. That was the very first command ever given by God to humanity (a command that has never been revoke).

This all changed with the fall. At Genesis 3:7 sin enters the world and with it comes the death of transgression (Romans 5). At Genesis 4:26 we see people began to call upon the name of the Lord. We see that there are those in constant prideful rebellion against God (such as those of Babylon) but there are also those who pursue God and by the time of Abram there is a city of Peace called, "Salem." The ruler of Salem, Melchizidek, is not just a king; he is also a priest. Here is the first time outside of Eden we see the civil and divine rule manifested together.

God told Abraham that He was going to enslave Abraham's descendants for 400 years and then God was going to free them to inhabit a promised land, the land promised to Abraham years prior. God does enslave Abraham's descendants and for 400 years the labor in bondage to Egypt. Eventually God raises up a man who He will use to liberate His chosen people and at the burning bush God summons Moses, commanding him to return to Egypt to lead God's people to freedom. Moses balks. God say "Go!" and Moses says, "No!" and they go back and forth until God relents to let Moses' brother Aaron (who is already on his way to retrieve Moses) speak for Moses as long as it is clear it is Moses through whom God speaks. Aaron, as you probably know, is te forerunner of the Levitical priesthood. Right there at the burning bush the civil and religious rule becomes divided. And it remains divided through the wilderness.

When the Israelites enter the promised land God re-integrates the civil and religious rule under the Judges.

This falls apart when in 1 Samuel 8 the Israelites reject God as their king and beg God to give them a human king like all the other surrounding nations - the pagan nations. In a debate uncannily similar to that seen at the burning bush God refuses their requests and tells them they will suffer if they have a human monarchy. They persist and God says, "Okay, have it your way." And, of course, not a single one of the kings was a righteous ruler. Everything God said would happen did happen.

The salient point there is that God never wanted an earthly monarch! The entire thing was an act of disobedience and rebellion.

Look it up.

Look it up, Terral.

All of these various acts of non-compliance influenced the Jewish theology so that they completely failed to understand the significance of the temple and the monarchy and as a consequence they completely failed to recognize the temple of God, the Messiah, the true King and Great High Priest when he stood right in front of them commanding illness, the wind and the waves, and even demons to do his bidding.

The book of Hebrews describes how Jesus is the High Priest in the Order of Mel. Jesus is the Prince of Peace, the King of all Kings, and it is to him that all knees will bow (in either salvation or destruction). Jesus is the fulfillment of all these prophesies and all these types and all these foreshadowings.

And we, the body of Christ, as Peter declares, we are the royal priests, the reuniting of the civil and religious rule.






I can provide you with the scripture for each and everything I posted but I assume you have sufficient familiarity with the Bible to know where much of what I describe is found. I encourage you to take what I have posted line by line and verify every bit of it. It is all there in God's word.

 

[Josheb]

Thank you for writing. There appears to be a point made in this post deserving a reply:


Of course Hosea 2:19-20 are cited correctly showing the Lord God (Christ) promised to betroth Israel to Himself. The Kingdom Church ("My Church," Matt. 16:18) is the "bride" from John 3:29 where Christ is the "Bridegroom" betrothing Israel to Himself using the "Gospel of the Kingdom."

Since this "kingdom" is not "His heavenly kingdom" (2Tim. 4:18) and not David's kingdom from the OT, then this is obviously at least a third kingdom rendering your "one kingdom" theory false. Of course the "kingdom" was at hand as part of the "Gospel of the Kingdom" good news message, which is the only gospel in town during the Four Gospels period..................l

Nice lengthy post but the salient point was ignored.


It all came to fulfillment in the NT era!

 

[Terral]

Hi Nolidad:

Thank you for writing on the Two Churches thread. You wrote:

No because you have mixed two different gospels during two different times and tiries to make them separate in this age!

First, quoting the entire OP to begin writing about something else challenges nothing about Peter’s kingdom church and nothing about Paul’s mystery body of Christ church. Which point are you attempting to dispute with this statement? Nobody knows. By your exclamation saying, “…because you have missed two different gospels,” then we (the readers and I) can assume that you see the “two gospels” (my OP) of the New Testament through which these two churches (Peter’s bride and Paul’s body) were called into existence. Secondly, I am not separating the “Gospel of the Kingdom” (Matt. 4:23, 9:35, Acts 8:12, etc.) from the “Gospel of the Grace of God” (Acts 20:24), but those two good news messages are identified and named in God’s Living Word. Thirdly, we have been living through the same “evil age” (Gal. 1:4) since the “darkness” (Eph. 6:12: “world forces of this darkness”) fell in Genesis 1:2. And lastly, if you truly want to draft a real rebuttal/counterargument against the two-churches explanation presented in the OP of this thread, then try “quoting >>” me like I am quoting you and make your case in a series of arguments using Scripture.

And the church was prophesied in the old but not understood!

What do you mean by “the church,” as if there is only one church in the entire New Testament? Are you referring to Christ’s “My church” where the keys of the kingdom were given to Peter in Matthew 16:16-20?

“Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.” Then He warned the disciples that they should tell no one that He was the Christ.” Matthew 16:16-20.

Since John the Baptist names this church as the “bride” (John 3:29), then we have Peter’s Prophetic Kingdom Bride Church from the Opening Post. This is the New Testament “church” that was seen by the OT prophets like Hosea (2:19-20) as described in the Opening Post of this thread. Paul and Scripture shows clearly that our “body” (Body of Christ) church (see Col. 1:24; “His body” church) was NOT seen by the OT prophets. Paul writes about “the mystery” to begin Ephesians 3 to write:

“By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel…”. Ephesians 3:4-6.

While the OT prophets could see Peter’s Kingdom Bride where the Lord betroths those obeying the Gospel of the Kingdom to Himself, the prophets could not see our mystery “body of Christ” (Eph. 4:12) that Paul details again in writing the Colossians:

“Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions. Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me [Eph. 3:2] for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God, that is, the mystery [Eph. 3:3] which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints, to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.” Colossians 1:24-27.

The bottom line here is that none of the prophets in the OT ever saw Gentiles being saved by God’s grace through faith apart from works using a “good news” message. The “gospel” is the “power of God” for salvation to everyone who believes (Rom. 1:16). And yet, there is no Hebrew-Aramaic term in the Old Testament translated into the term “gospel.” NASB. Paul connects our gospel, our church and our translation to immortality directly to the “mystery” (musterion #3466), which by definition means, “that which, being outside the range of unassisted natural apprehension, can be made known only by Divine revelation, and is made known in a manner and at a time appointed by God, and to those only who are illumined by His Spirit.” You cannot have “one” gospel that “is seen” by the OT prophets AND unseen by the OT prophets.

You have two different gospels in this age.

One for the made up "kingdom bride church" and the other which is the true gospel for the bride of Christ which is the church composed of Jew and gentile.

Actually, there are three gospels in this evil age presented in this order:

1. Gospel of the Kingdom. Matthew 4:23, 9:35, 24:14, Acts 8:12 etc..

2. Gospel of the Grace of God (Acts 20:24) a.k.a. the “Word of the Cross” (1Cor. 1:18).

3. Eternal Gospel. Revelation 14:6.

BTW, if you are trying to make a case for Paul as steward over the “bride of Christ” in his Epistles, then Paul never uses the term nymphe (bride; #3565) anywhere in any of his letters to the Gentiles.

The kingdom gospel preaching ended after the events of Matthew 12. Jesus had proven He was the Messiah to Israel. Even by tradition with the three Messianic miracles that Israel was taught only Messiah could do!
1. Healing of a man born blind.
2. Healing of a Jewish Leper.
3. Casting out of a demon from a deaf and dumb man!

Nonsense. Christ warned the disciples to tell NO ONE that He was the Messiah-Christ (Matt. 16:20), as already presented above. Philip is preaching the “good news concerning the kingdom of God” in Acts 8:12. Paul makes reference to “preaching the kingdom” in Acts 20:25 in describing the “whole purpose of God” (Acts 20:27) and only after making mention of the “gospel of the grace of God” in verse 24.

If one looks at the events of Matthew 12- the leader ship of Israel was forced to answer whether Jesus was the Messiah or not! The people asked if Jesus was the Son of David ( a title for the Messiah) and forced th eleaders to answer! They chose to say Jesus cast out demons cause he was possessed by Beelzebub.

In Matt. 13 Jesus starts teaching in public in parables. It is such a change in His style the disciples ask:

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

The kingdom gospel was no more preached. all pone has to do is follow the synoptics and see this is true! The kingdom that Israel is to inherit was removed from that generation and to be given to a future generation of Israel who will accept Jesus as Messiah and cause Jesus to return. [snip]

No, Nolidad. Christ says the “Gospel of the Kingdom” will go to the WHOLE WORLD (Matt. 24:14) and that has not happened yet in Matthew 13. The facts in this case are clearly not on your side in this debate.

If Peter preached a different gospel to Israel after Pentecost then He was preaching a false gospel.

No. The Gospel of the Kingdom was a good news message in transition through the ministries of John the Baptist, Christ and then the Twelve that began at Pentecost. The doctrinal precepts for each go like this:

Credit Terral Croft, The Mystery Explained, Nov. 2017, Page 309​

Start at the “Second Veil” position (on left) where the Old Testament ends and the New Testament begins. Note the Father, Son and Holy Spirit have “three” distinct ministries offering the Gospel of the Kingdom to Israel as shown below:

1. John the Baptist’s ministry: Repentance of sins, confession of sins, water baptism for forgiveness of sins. Mark 1:1-6. John says multiple times in a single passage that “I did not recognize Him” (John 1:31-34), which means John the Baptist could not testify to anyone about being baptized in the “name of Jesus Christ” to start his ministry.

2. Christ’s ministry: Jesus Christ came along in Mark 1 preaching the “gospel of God” (Mark 1:14-15), which corresponds to His preaching in Galilee in Matthew 4:17-23. However, Christ only tells His disciples about baptizing in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit at the very end of the Four Gospel period in Matthew 28:19. Therefore, you would expect Peter to preach salvation through Christ’s shed blood on the Day of Pentecost in Acts 2, based upon your “one gospel” theory. Right? Well, the problem is that Peter preached water baptism for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38), just like John the Baptist in Mark 1!!!

3. Holy Spirit’s ministry: The Disciples receive the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and continue preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom based on Christ’s Great Commission Commands that say:

“And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel [“concerning the kingdom of God;” Acts 8:12] to all creation. He who has believed and has been baptized [Acts 2:38] shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.” Mark 16:15-16.

While the Gospel of the Kingdom has three distinct baptisms (my OP), our Word of the Cross gospel message has only one baptism done by the Holy Spirit the moment we obey the gospel.

But that is not true. Peter and Paul preached the same gospel, just to different audiences, using different arguments to show Jesus died and rose for sin and is indeed savior/Christ/Messiah!

We agree that Peter and Paul preach the Gospel of the Kingdom, because this was the only gospel in town at the time of Paul’s conversion. The Gospel of the Grace of God was given to Paul via a “revelation of Jesus Christ” (Gal. 1:11-12) requiring Paul to go up to Jerusalem to submit his gospel to Peter, John and James (Gal. 2:1-14) who were CLUELESS. Read all fourteen verses to realize Peter was wrong about the “truth of the gospel” that you believe he preached in the Four Gospels and Acts (NOT).

Israel enters and reigns on earth for the Millenial kingdom of which Christ is king and the church is His queen consort and bride.

No. Christ’s kingdom is not of this world and not even of this realm! John 18:36. Those among us obeying Paul’s Gospel of the Grace of God will be “brought to His heavenly kingdom” (2Tim. 4:18), while those distorting-mishandling the “wisdom given him” are doing so to “their own destruction.” 2Peter 3:14-16.

Israel is the wife of Jehovah who now divorced will be rewed to the Father for the gifts and callings of god are without repentance!

No. Those promises are made to Israel (Romans 11:26) once this mystery time is over. Thank you again for writing on the Two Churches thread, with,

Blessings,

Terral

 

[readywriter]

Greetings to All:

John the Baptist, Jesus Christ and the Twelve preached the “Gospel of the Kingdom” to Israel only during the Four Gospels and early Acts for gathering the Prophetic Kingdom “Bride” (Jn 3:29). Israel was to accept the good news that the kingdom of heaven was “at hand” to become a “royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession (1 Pet. 2:9) in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy. As it is written,

Hello @Terral,

* I agree with this first paragraph.

Jesus Christ chooses Peter to lead the Kingdom Church offering the “keys of the kingdom” while establishing specific terms, saying,

Jesus Christ lays down basic rules for the disciples and this newly forming Kingdom Church, saying,

This Kingdom Church is based in “Jerusalem” (Acts 8:1, 11:22, 15:4) representing the Capitol of the Kingdom of Priests (Ex. 19:6) “on earth AS IT IS in heaven.” Matt. 6:10. Kingdom Disciples from the Kingdom Church are under Mosaic Law, until heaven and earth pass away (Matt. 5:17-19, James 2:10) being “justified by works and not by faith alone” (James 2:24). Kingdom Disciples have three baptisms (Acts 19:1-6) in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit (Matt. 28:19). Kingdom Disciples in the Kingdom Church do not have eternal security and must “endure to the end” (Matt. 24:13) to be saved and must be baptized in water for the forgiveness of sins (Mark 16:15-16, 1Peter 3:21).

* The Scriptures you quote confirm what you have said in this portion of your OP.

Our Body of Christ Mystery Church (Eph. 5:32, Col. 1:24) was not seen by the Old Testament prophets (Eph. 3:4-9) with Gentile-dominant churches established throughout the known world (Rom. 1:8).

* I agree that the Body of Christ Mystery Church was not seen by the Old Testament prophets, which your referred scripture confirms. However, are you saying in your second sentence here that it was not seen also by the Gentile-dominant churches established throughout the known world? I think you may have missed out a word here. If you were then I agree that it was not at the time of the writing of the scripture you reference (Romans 1:8), for at that time it had not been revealed to Paul himself, having been 'hid in God' (Ephesians 3:9).

Our citizenship is in “heaven” (Phil. 3:20) and we are under grace and not under law. Rom. 6:14. Body of Christ church members are justified by faith apart from works (Rom. 4:4-6) and our mystery church started with Paul on the road to Damascus (Acts 9:15).

* I disagree with your last point. For the truth concerning the church which is His Body was not made known to Paul until his imprisonment at Rome, following the departure of Israel into unbelief, having finally rejected their Messiah and King, in both the land of Israel and the dispersion.

Body of Christ church members receive only “one baptism” (Eph. 4:5) done by the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:13-14, 4:30) upon hearing and believing the Gospel of the Grace of God part of the “whole purpose of God” (Acts 20:24-27) that includes a Mystery Body Church “and” a Kingdom Bride Church described above gathered via “preaching the kingdom.”

* Though in agreement regarding the one baptism which is done by the operation of the Spirit upon hearing and believing the Gospel of the Grace of God: the truth concerning the church which is His Body is not mentioned in what Paul describes as 'the whole purpose of God' in Acts 20:24-27, for it was not yet made known to him. He made known to them what comprised the whole purpose of God as had been made known to him at that time, which did not include the knowledge of the church which is His Body for it was still 'hid in God'.

Christ Body members have eternal security being seated in the heavenly places “in” Christ Jesus (Eph. 2:4-7) with lives hidden with Christ “in” God. Col. 3:3. Brethren in Christ are addressed only by the Apostle Paul (1Cor. 14:37-38) are saved by obeying our gospel without adding works (Rom. 1:16-17, 1Cor. 1:21, Eph. 2:8-9).

* I agree with all the above.

Do you see the differences between Peter’s Prophetic Kingdom Bride Church and Paul’s Mystery Body of Christ Church in the world today? Good luck in the debate.

* Yes

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Terral]

Hi Josheb:

Look it up, Terral.

Why? Your post quotes nobody and is addressed to nobody. If you genuinely what to debate this topic, then "quote >>" anything you wish from the OP and offer supported statements for something else using Scripture. 2Tim. 2:15. Quote me and address the substance of your remarks to me and perhaps we will have something to debate. Even then, I get to decide if your arguments have any influence on what has been presented, or if we are looking at more grandstanding from a member yet to understand what has been presented. GL.

Blessings,

Terral

 

[Josheb]

Look it up, Terral.

Hi Josheb:

Why?

Because I don't want you to take my word for it when what I posted is so easily verified by anyone inclined to check for themselves. Surely you have a Bible and can turn to 1 Samuel 8 without my having to paste an entire chapter from the Bible into the discussion.


The rest of that post is lame. No poster was identified and no poster was quoted because the contents of my post addresses the substance of the op for everyone, not just one individual. So you'll either choose to consider what was posted or you won't. We can discuss it or we can debate it or we can argue over it or you can ignore it. Your choice. "Your post quotes nobody and..." is lame non sequitur. Hypocritical, too.

 

[JLHargus]

Terral: Of course Hosea 2:19-20 are cited correctly showing the Lord God (Christ) promised to betroth Israel to Himself. The Kingdom Church ("My Church," Matt. 16:18) is the "bride" from John 3:29 where Christ is the "Bridegroom" betrothing Israel to Himself using the "Gospel of the Kingdom." Since this "kingdom" is not "His heavenly kingdom" (2Tim. 4:18) and not David's kingdom from the OT, then this is obviously at least a third kingdom rendering your "one kingdom" theory false. Of course the "kingdom" was at hand as part of the "Gospel of the Kingdom" good news message, which is the only gospel in town during the Four Gospels period.

The Day of the Lord (in blue on the right) was set to begin with John the Baptist, Gospel of the Kingdom" 2000 years ago, but Israel did not accept the good news to commit the "transgression" (Rom. 11:11) causing God to put the Kingdom Dispensation on the back burner. God raised up the Apostle Paul to give him the "gospel of the grace of God" (Acts 20:24) for gathering members to the "Body of Christ" (Eph. 4:12) characterized as "His body" church in Col. 1:24-27.

If you would like to make the case for Peter's Kingdom Bride Church being the same as Paul's Mystery Body of Christ Church using Scripture, then please be my guest.

JL: To be frank Terral, I see no evidence in your post for anything other than one kingdom, one people of God, one gospel of Christ. It seems to me you are assuming there are more kingdoms simply because different terms are used for the same kingdom.

You posted: “Jesus Christ and the Twelve preaching the "Gospel of the Kingdom." Since this "kingdom" is not "His heavenly kingdom" (2Tim. 4:18) and not David's kingdom from the OT, then this is obviously at least a third kingdom”.

[Eph3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:]k

[Eph1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:]k

[Acts3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.]k

[Col1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.]k

[Eph2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.]

[Eph3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;]k KJV Biblegateway

 

[Terral]

Hi JLHargus:

Thank you for writing on the Two NT Churches topic. You wrote:

Terral: Of course Hosea 2:19-20 are cited correctly showing the Lord God (Christ) promised to betroth Israel to Himself. [snip]

JL: To be frank Terral, I see no evidence in your post for anything other than one kingdom, one people of God, one gospel of Christ. It seems to me you are assuming there are more kingdoms simply because different terms are used for the same kingdom.

Please forgive, but there is nothing in the OP regarding multiple "kingdoms," which appears to be the sidetrack topic of your posts so far on this thread and in this debate.

The topic is: Peter's Kingdom Bride Church Versus Paul's Mystery Body of Christ

Please allow me to quote Jesus Christ addressing His Disciples and Peter, specifically, saying,

"And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.” Then He warned the disciples that they should tell no one that He was the Christ." Matthew 16:16-20.

Just to be clear, we are discussing the differences between the first "My church" created by Jesus Christ in the Four Gospels, when He was preaching the "Gospel of the Kingdom" (Matt. 4:23, 9:35, 24:14, etc.). The reason my OP presentation makes mention of the "Gospel of the Kingdom" by name is because God's Word calls this good news message the "Gospel of the Kingdom." This discussion does not concern the Kingdom of God, nor the Kingdom of Heaven, nor David's Kingdom, nor "His Heavenly Kingdom," or any other "kingdom," but the "Gospel of the Kingdom" through which Christ builds "My church."

The obvious fact is that Christ has died for nobody in Matthew 16, because the "Gospel of the Kingdom" has nothing to do with Christ dying for anyone. Then, John the Baptist characterizes this Kingdom Church as the "bride" in John 3:29, while Paul consistently refers to our mystery Body of Christ Church as the "body of Christ" (Eph. 4:12). These are two different churches (ekklesia #1577) creating two totally different dispensations (oikonomia #3622), or two different "households" living under different house rules. That is why the big Meeting in Jerusalem (Acts 15/Gal. 2) became necessary in the first place. All the Ephesians quotes cited in your reply apply to the Body of Christ church having nothing to do with Peter's Kingdom church at all.

Blessings,

Terral

 

[JLHargus]

Terral: Please forgive, but I am having difficulty making the connection between what you are writing here and the “Two Gospels” of the New Testament presented in the OP of this thread. The John 3:5 verse has nothing to do with the Gospel of the Grace of God (Acts 20:24) described throughout the Pauline Epistles where believers are saved by God’s grace through faith apart from works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Take a good look around in John 3 to realize Christ has died for NOBODY, as John the Baptist, Christ and the Twelve all preach the “Gospel of the Kingdom” (Matt. 4:17, 9:35, 24:14, Acts 8:12).

JL: No need to apologize, I also have great difficulty understanding two gospels and two kingdoms. I have read several of your OPs but still don’t get it. Although with this post I see you believe Paul preached an entirely different gospel than the other apostles. Do you actually believe Peter didn’t teach the same gospel as Paul?

My entire post was to show there is one gospel, one body, one kingdom, one people of God. There is no distinction between Jew or Gentles who believe in Christ. Paul indicates he is preaching the same gospel to both Jew and Greeks.

[Act20:20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publicly, and from house to house, 21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.]k

[1Cor1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.]

Paul made no distinction between Jew or Gentiles who believed, both are called to faith in Christ. Both Peter and Paul preached the same gospel, Christ crucified, to both Jew and Gentile. There was not a great need to preach Christ crucified to Jews they all knew Christ was crucified and died.

There is only one kingdom of God the regenerated Davidic kingdom of spiritual Israel. The Son of David, Jesus the Messiah is King enthroned in heaven.

 

[JLHargus]

Terral: Take a good look around in John 3 to realize Christ has died for NOBODY, as John the Baptist, Christ and the Twelve all preach the “Gospel of the Kingdom” (Matt. 4:17, 9:35, 24:14, Acts 8:12).

JL: Of course, they preached the kingdom, that’s what every Jew was expecting, it also got their attention. Gentiles would first need to know who Christ was, that he died for our sins and rose from the dead. I agree in John 3 Christ has died for NOBODY, as he hasn’t yet been crucified. However, in John3 Jesus did tell us how to be born again in order to enter the kingdom.

Jesus said, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith, How Jesus answered, Except born of water and of the Spirit, cannot enter the kingdom of God. Nicodemus said, How Jesus said, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? Nicodemus should have known from the OT. Evidently the religious officials of Jerusalem knew.

[Jn1:10And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou? 20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. 21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. 22 …. 23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. 24 …. 25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?

[Ezek36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.]k

[Zech13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.]k

[Zech12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.]k

[Col2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.]k

 

[JLHargus]

Terral: described throughout the Pauline Epistles where believers are saved by God's grace through faith apart from works (Ephesians 2:8-10).

JL: Of course, apart from works, all is grace, God’s mercy, including the grace=gift of water baptism. Infants can’t work, an adult doesn’t baptize himself, it is done to him. It is the Holy Spirit acting through water, calling on the name Father, Son and Holy Spirit that God births His children through the womb of the Church=bride of Christ our mother, born again by water and of the Spirit. Just as Paul tells us.

[Titus3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;]k

[Col2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;]k

Also notice in both Col2 above and Eph2 below, how one is quickened together with Christ, saved. Saved by grace not of works, being raised together with Christ in water baptism, the circumcision of Christ. No longer aliens from the commonwealth of Israel but fellow citizens by the blood of Christ. Christ has reconciled both, Jew & Gentile, into one body of Christ=Church, spiritual Israel the Israel of God, New Jerusalem=Church=an habitation of God through the Spirit. At the end of time New Jerusalem will come down from heaven to the new earth and new universe. God will dwell with His people and the regenerated David Kingdom, with the King of Kings and Son of David=Jesus on the throne for eternity.

[Eph2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.]k

There is only one gospel, one faith, one baptism for forgiveness of sin, one church, one body, one bride, one kingdom, one household of God.

 

[JLHargus]

Terral: This Kingdom Church is based in “Jerusalem” (Acts 8:1, 11:22, 15:4) representing the Capitol of the Kingdom of Priests (Ex. 19:6) “on earth AS IT IS in heaven.” Matt. 6:10. Kingdom Disciples from the Kingdom Church are under Mosaic Law, until heaven and earth pass away (Matt. 5:17-19, James 2:10) being “justified by works and not by faith alone”

JL: [Mt5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.]k

[Jms2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.]k

God gave Moses the original law of ten commandments=moral law. The other laws, sacrifices, purifications, etc. were added because of transgressions of Israel. They were fulfilled by Christ. The ten commandments are the more law. The ten commandments=moral law will not pass away till there is a new earth and universe were in God will dwell with men. When in Heaven there will be no need of any law as there will be no more sin. Also all prophecies will be fulfilled at that time.

[Eph2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:]k

Lk24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. 45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46 And said unto them, [Thus it is written[/b], and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.]k

[Rv21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.]k

Thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
KJV Biblegateway

 

[JLHargus]

Terral: 2 Timothy 2:15. The idea that the Body of Christ has sins forgiven via water baptism has no basis in Biblical reality. Our sins are forgiven through Christ’s shed blood (Eph. 1:17, Col. 1:18-20)

JL: Perhaps that’s your reality, but according to Paul alone and Biblical realty sins are forgiven via water baptism. By grace sins are forgiven through Christ’s blood when the fruit of the blood is applied, cleansing of sins, through water baptism, not by works but by Christ’s mercy one is saved by washing=water baptism.

[Titus3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.]k

[Eph3:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,]k

[1Cor12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.]k

[1Cor6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.]k

What did Ananias tell Paul to do?

[Acts22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard. 16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.]k

[Rv1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.]k

The fruit of that blood, shed on the cross, is applied and regenerates one’s soul in water baptism

[Eph1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:]k

[Jn13:7 Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter. 8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. 9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. 10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all. 11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.k
KJV Biblegateway

 

[JLHargus]

The following is Paul's view and writings on water baptism.

Col2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;]k

[Rms6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?4 Therefore we buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.]k

[Gal3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.]k

[Titus3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;]k

[Eph5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.]k

[1Cor6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.]k

With what do we wash? Water and a cleansing agent. what is the cleansing agent in water baptism? The Holy Spirit.

[Eph4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.]k

[Hb10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God; 22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)]k

[Acts19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7 And all the men were about twelve.]k

If those believing disciples had been water baptized by John the Baptist, obviously something was lacking, the Holy Spirit was not acting in John’s baptism. John’s baptism was just one of many OT ceremonial purification washings. Those disciples needed to be born again by water and of the Spirit, Christ’s baptism, in order to receive the Holy Spirit. Being born of water and of the Spirit as Christ told Nicodemus. Evidently Paul didn't teach one receives the Holy Spirit when they believe, apart form water baptism. Otherwise he would not have asked have you received the Holy Spirit since you believed. Paul taught the same gospel as all the apostles taught, one is born again by water and of the Spirit=water baptism.
KJV Biblegateway

 

[JLHargus]

Terral: The obvious fact is that Christ has died for nobody in Matthew 16, because the "Gospel of the Kingdom" has nothing to do with Christ dying for anyone.

JL: I don’t recall anyone posting Matthew16 is specifically speaking of Christ dying for anyone? However He did say in Mt16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.]k

Terral: the "Gospel of the Kingdom" has nothing to do with Christ dying for anyone.

JL: Mark who preached the same gospel as in Matthew16 seems to think Jesus’ dying had everything to do with the gospel.

[Mk16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.]k

After Pentecost Peter also seems to be under the impression Christ died for those in Matthew16.

[Acts2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6-20 …. 21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. 22…. 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. 25-32 …. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34-35 …. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. 42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.]k

Where is that one fellowship of the saved? The Church Christ promised the gates of hell would not prevail against, Mt16:18 promising to send the Spirit of truth to lead them into all truth, Jn16:19. The one Church Christ promised to be with to the end of the world, Mt28-16-20?

 

[JLHargus]

Terral: Then, John the Baptist characterizes this Kingdom Church as the "bride" in John 3:29, while Paul consistently refers to our mystery Body of Christ Church as the "body of Christ" (Eph. 4:12). These are two different churches (ekklesia #1577) creating two totally different dispensations (oikonomia #3622), or two different "households" living under different house rules.

JL: In the following I have copied your above and added the scripture so it can be read within your post.

Terral Posted: Then, John the Baptist characterizes this Kingdom Church as the "bride" in [Jn3:29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.]

while Paul consistently refers to our mystery Body of Christ Church as the "body of Christ" [Eph4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:] These are two different churches (ekklesia #1577) creating two totally different dispensations (oikonomia #3622), or two different "households" living under different house rules.

JL: Paul in all his letters also consistently refers to that mystery Body of Christ as One Body with both Jews and Gentiles. The scriptures you posted do not say or even remotely imply there are two ekklesia=assembly=church or households. In fact Paul goes on to tell us the mystery was revealed by Christ to the original apostles as well as to Paul an apostles born out of season. What was that mystery revealed to all the apostles?

[Eph3:6That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel.]k

[Eph3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:]k

Notice, Paul clearly says the Gentiles are now fellow heirs of the same body with Jewish Christians. Both, a natural Jew and a natural Gentile need to be born again to become a true Jew, which is a spiritual Jew and Abraham’s children. Circumcised of the heart not of the flesh.

[Rms2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.]k

[Gal3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.]

The one body and bride of Christ, one gospel, one regenerated kingdom of David with the Son of David, Jesus enthroned in heaven, ruling the earth through His ministers. Ministers He appointed and sent to teach the whole world till the end, Mt28:16-20. After the last judgment the bride=new Jerusalem=Church and body of Christ will come down from heaven on the new regenerated earth. Heaven and earth united, God will dwell with His people, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords for ever.

[1Cor13: 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.]k

[Rv21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.]k

 

[JLHargus]

JL: In Paul’s inspired writings he seems to be under the impression there is only one gospel, one body, one church for both Jew and Gentile. The following are from Paul’s writings.

[1Cor12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.]k

Paul teaches the same gospel as the other apostles, also Paul makes no distinction between Jew and Gentile when it comes one baptism. There is only one baptism given by Christ for the forgiveness of sins.

[Col2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.]

[Titus3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;]k

[1Pt3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:]k

[Mk16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye [b/into all the world[/b], and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.]k

Paul is teaching the same gospel as Peter and Mark.

[Gal3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.]k

[Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; 10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: 11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. 12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; 13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. 14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. 15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankfull.]k

[Rms12:4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: 5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.]k

[Rms15:25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints. 26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem. 27 It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.]k

[Acts14:1 And it came to pass in Iconium, that they went both together into the synagogue of the Jews, and so spake, that a great multitude both of the Jews and also of the Greeks believed.]k Greeks=Gentiles.

Acts13:37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption. 38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: 39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. 40 Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets; 41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you. 42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. 43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.]k

Paul preached in verse 38 forgiveness of sins and justification, to both Jews and Gentles. In verse 43 Jews were persuaded to continue in the grace of God.

[Acts15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. 12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.]k

Notice at the first Church Council in Acts15 what Peter said in verse 11. He seems to believe both Jew and Gentle are saved by grace, not of works. Same gospel as Paul.

[Acts14:19 And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead. 20 Howbeit, as the disciples stood round about him, he rose up, and came into the city: and the next day he departed with Barnabas to Derbe. 21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch, 22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God. 23 And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed. 24 And after they had passed throughout Pisidia, they came to Pamphylia. 25 And when they had preached the word in Perga, they went down into Attalia: 26 And thence sailed to Antioch, from whence they had been recommended to the grace of God for the work which they fulfilled. 27 And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles. 28 And there they abode long time with the disciples.]k

[Acts16:1 Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek: 2 Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium. 3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.]k

If Paul was not teaching the same gospel as the other apostles, why would he care what Jews thought or even bother with them?

[Acts17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews: 2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, 3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ. 4 And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.]

Notice in verse 2. Paul’s custom was first to preach to the Jews when he went into a city where there was a synagogue. Some Jews believed and associated with Paul and a multitude of devout Greeks.

[Acts17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.]

 

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JL: In Paul’s inspired writings he seems to be under the impression there is only one gospel, one body, one church for both Jew and Gentile. The following are from Paul’s writings.

Paul teaches the same gospel as the other apostles, also Paul makes no distinction between Jew and Gentile when it comes one baptism. There is only one baptism given by Christ for the forgiveness of sins.

Paul is teaching the same gospel as Peter and Mark.


If Paul was not teaching the same gospel as the other apostles, why would he care what Jews thought or even bother with them?

How would you address this phrase in the KJV "Since the world began"? Performing a search in the KJV bible, here are some places where it appears.

Luke 1
67And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: 71That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; 72To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; 73The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

Acts 3:21
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Both the Luke and Acts account are speaking of the same thing, which is how Jesus came as a promise from God to the Jews, to be their King, their Messiah, their redeemer. This is the Gospel of the Kingdom.

However, we know that the Jews rejected their Messiah for the final time in Acts 9, with the stoning of Stephen. It was at that time, Jesus raised Paul and revealed to him a secret, or a mystery, the Gospel of Grace.

Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began

My question is this, the prophecy of Jesus being their King, the Gospel of the Kingdom, was spoken by God since the world began. Yet Paul in Romans revealed that there was also a mystery which was kept secret since the world began.

For those people who believe that both Gospels contain the same message, wouldn't this be some kind of contradiction? How do people still see both messages as the same?