Personal salvation of the Israelites?

questionman

Active Member
Site Supporter
Oct 24, 2019
71
45
47
USA
✟56,934.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
There seems to be not much (no?) mention of eternal judgment or hell in the Old Testament.

My impression of salvation in the OT is that it was physical/national/temporal not spiritual/personal/eternal and that the Israelites looked forward to multiple messiahs (warrior-kings that saved the nation from their enemies) not to one messiah that would save them from God's wrath and hell in a final judgment.

Were the Israelites regenerate or born again?
Did they have the seal of the Holy Spirit?
Were they baptized in Jesus name?
On what basis were they saved?
Did they believe in Jesus?
Did they believe in imputed righteousness and substitutionary atonement in a God-Man?
Did they believe in a need for personal, eternal salvation?
What did they think they were saved from?
Was the Holy Spirit operating in their lives to sanctify them?
 

TogetherInHim

Newbie
Site Supporter
May 23, 2014
190
42
✟59,930.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
There seems to be not much (no?) mention of eternal judgment or hell in the Old Testament.

My impression of salvation in the OT is that it was physical/national/temporal not spiritual/personal/eternal and that the Israelites looked forward to multiple messiahs (warrior-kings that saved the nation from their enemies) not to one messiah that would save them from God's wrath and hell in a final judgment.

Were the Israelites regenerate or born again?
Did they have the seal of the Holy Spirit?
Were they baptized in Jesus name?
On what basis were they saved?
Did they believe in Jesus?
Did they believe in imputed righteousness and substitutionary atonement in a God-Man?
Did they believe in a need for personal, eternal salvation?
What did they think they were saved from?
Was the Holy Spirit operating in their lives to sanctify them?

"Were the Israelites regenerate or born again?"

No. If that was so, then Jesus would not have told Nicodemus that he must be born again if he already was, being a Jew. However, the Jews were in covenant with God through Abraham which one day, Jesus would fulfill on their behalf at the cross.

Did they have the seal of the Holy Spirit?

No. That would come at Pentecost. However, God did baptize kings and prophets with the Holy Spirit at various times throughout their history to perform his will and speak his Word.

Were they baptized in Jesus name?

No. That is part of the New Covenant.

On what basis were they saved?

They were saved from the curse of death that Adam brought upon the world. They honored that covenant by obeying the Law of Moses with regard to the blood of the Lamb and the repentance and sacrifices required under the law. These pointed to the coming fulfillment by Jesus, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world and fulfills the obligation of those under the law, who could not do it for themselves.

Did they believe in Jesus?

No. Jesus had not yet come. They were told of a coming Messiah, but even when he came according to prophesy, they did not all recognize or receive him.

Did they believe in imputed righteousness and substitutionary atonement in a God-Man?

No. That was not part of their covenant. That would be one day fulfilled by Jesus, but they did not understand this yet.

Did they believe in a need for personal, eternal salvation?

Yes. They understood the difference between a "sinner" and and a "righteous" man, one facing judgment and others forgiven by their repentance and the ritual sacrifices under the law.

What did they think they were saved from?

They understood that the curse of death that Adam brought upon the world, was passed on to them. They understood that they needed to be resurrected after this life. They understood about Hades/Hell as an eternal punishment for those in covenant who would be resurrected.

Was the Holy Spirit operating in their lives to sanctify them?

Not as the New Covenant believers have received the Holy Spirit. That only came at Pentecost when Jesus sent the "Helper" to all who accept his salvation from death. However, the Holy Spirit was present through certain kings and prophets whom God baptized for his purposes who would lead the people. David prayed, "Do not take your Holy Spirit from me." King Saul was baptized and prophesied.

Sanctification was up to them under the law and that was (and is) impossible without Jesus and the help of the Holy Spirit operating within us.

Check out this study that may interest you: www.WhoGoesToHell.com
 
Upvote 0

bling

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Feb 27, 2008
16,182
1,808
✟801,184.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
There seems to be not much (no?) mention of eternal judgment or hell in the Old Testament.

My impression of salvation in the OT is that it was physical/national/temporal not spiritual/personal/eternal and that the Israelites looked forward to multiple messiahs (warrior-kings that saved the nation from their enemies) not to one messiah that would save them from God's wrath and hell in a final judgment.

Were the Israelites regenerate or born again?
Did they have the seal of the Holy Spirit?
Were they baptized in Jesus name?
On what basis were they saved?
Did they believe in Jesus?
Did they believe in imputed righteousness and substitutionary atonement in a God-Man?
Did they believe in a need for personal, eternal salvation?
What did they think they were saved from?
Was the Holy Spirit operating in their lives to sanctify them?
Lots of time in the Old Testament when people talk of God’s salvation, they are talking about salvation of the physical nation of Israel from earthly enemies, so you have to watch the way salvation is being talked about in the OT.

Salvation of the individual, judgement and eternal life was part of the Jewish thinking, but not everyone considered individual salvation.

Ezekiel 33:12 “Therefore, son of man, say to your people, ‘If someone who is righteous disobeys, that person’s former righteousness will count for nothing. And if someone who is wicked repents, that person’s former wickedness will not bring condemnation. The righteous person who sins will not be allowed to live even though they were formerly righteous.’

David did some mighty bad stuff yet he is “a man after God’s own heart”.

Your questions:

Were the Israelites regenerate or born again?

No

Did they have the seal of the Holy Spirit?

No

Were they baptized in Jesus name?

No

On what basis were they saved?

Repenting (turning to God), Seeking God’s forgiveness, Loving God and others.

Did they believe in Jesus?

No, but the Jews did believe in the Messiah.

Did they believe in imputed righteousness and substitutionary atonement in a God-Man?

No

Did they believe in a need for personal, eternal salvation?

Some (I feel most) did.

What did they think they were saved from?

Condemnation.

Was the Holy Spirit operating in their lives to sanctify them?

Some had a portion of the Holy Spirit for some limited amount of time, but they could quench the Spirit, but never had the indwelling portion of the Spirit like Christians have today.
 
Upvote 0

questionman

Active Member
Site Supporter
Oct 24, 2019
71
45
47
USA
✟56,934.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Thank you for your replies, very helpful to think about. Still processing some of it but wanted to ask about a common point you both made.

What did they think they were saved from?

They understood that the curse of death that Adam brought upon the world, was passed on to them. They understood that they needed to be resurrected after this life. They understood about Hades/Hell as an eternal punishment for those in covenant who would be resurrected.

What did they think they were saved from?

Condemnation.


What are some passages in the OT where this teaching of eternal punishment and/or condemnation and the nature of that destination is taught? Also, what are some passages that describe eternal resurrection and the nature of that destination?
 
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Site Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,775
5,637
Utah
✟719,142.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Thank you for your replies, very helpful to think about. Still processing some of it but wanted to ask about a common point you both made.






What are some passages in the OT where this teaching of eternal punishment and/or condemnation and the nature of that destination is taught? Also, what are some passages that describe eternal resurrection and the nature of that destination?


OT taught hell is the grave ie (Sheol, Hades, Gehenna) and that all the dead are in a dormant sleep) OT did not teach eternal hell (torment) but destruction of the wicked.


State of the Dead - Old Testament


Psalm 90:3-6

You turn man back into dust And say, "Return, O children of men." For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night. You have swept them away like a flood, they fall asleep; In the morning they are like grass which sprouts anew.

Job 7:21

"Why then do You not pardon my transgression And take away my iniquity? For now I will lie down in the dust; And You will seek me, but I will not be."

Job 14:10-12

"But man dies and lies prostrate Man expires, and where is he? "As water evaporates from the sea, And a river becomes parched and dried up, So man lies down and does not rise. Until the heavens are no longer, He will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep.

Psalm 13:3

Consider and answer me, O LORD my God; Enlighten my eyes, or I will sleep the sleep of death,

Daniel 12:2

"Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.


1 Kings 2:10

Then David slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of David.

Deuteronomy 31:16

The LORD said to Moses, "Behold, you are about to lie down with your fathers; and this people will arise and play the harlot with the strange gods of the land, into the midst of which they are going, and will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them.

2 Samuel 7:12

"When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom.

1 Kings 11:43

And Solomon slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of his father David, and his son Rehoboam reigned in his place.

1 Kings 14:20

The time that Jeroboam reigned was twenty-two years; and he slept with his fathers, and Nadab his son reigned in his place.

1 Kings 16:6

And Baasha slept with his fathers and was buried in Tirzah, and Elah his son became king in his place.

1 Kings 22:50

And Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers and was buried with his fathers in the city of his father David, and Jehoram his son became king in his place.

2 Kings 14:16

So Jehoash slept with his fathers and was buried in Samaria with the kings of Israel; and Jeroboam his son became king in his place.

2 Kings 15:7

And Azariah slept with his fathers, and they buried him with his fathers in the city of David, and Jotham his son became king in his place.

2 Kings 16:20

So Ahaz slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David; and his son Hezekiah reigned in his place.

2 Kings 20:21

So Hezekiah slept with his fathers, and Manasseh his son became king in his place.

2 Kings 21:18

And Manasseh slept with his fathers and was buried in the garden of his own house, in the garden of Uzza, and Amon his son became king in his place.

Job 14:13-15

"Oh that You would hide me in Sheol (the grave), That You would conceal me until Your wrath returns to You, That You would set a limit for me and remember me! "If a man dies, will he live again? All the days of my struggle I will wait Until my change comes. "You will call, and I will answer You; You will long for the work of Your hands.

Psalm 17:15

As for me, I shall behold Your face in righteousness; I will be satisfied with Your likeness when I awake.

Isaiah 26:19

Your dead will live; Their corpses will rise You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy, For your dew is as the dew of the dawn, And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits.


Jeremiah 51:57

"I will make her princes and her wise men drunk, Her governors, her prefects and her mighty men, That they may sleep a perpetual sleep and not wake up," Declares the King, whose name is the LORD of hosts.


Psalm 7:3-5

O LORD my God, if I have done this, If there is injustice in my hands, If I have rewarded evil to my friend, Or have plundered him who without cause was my adversary, Let the enemy pursue my soul and overtake it; And let him trample my life down to the ground And lay my glory in the dust. Selah.

Psalm 76:5

The stouthearted were plundered, They sank into sleep; And none of the warriors could use his hands.

Jeremiah 51:39

"When they become heated up, I will serve them their banquet And make them drunk, that they may become jubilant And may sleep a perpetual sleep And not wake up," declares the LORD.


OT taught Destruction NOT Eternal Torture

Psalm 37:38

But transgressors will be altogether destroyed; The posterity of the wicked will be cut off.

Proverbs 14:11

The house of the wicked will be destroyed, But the tent of the upright will flourish.

Psalm 94:23

He has brought back their wickedness upon them And will destroy them in their evil; The LORD our God will destroy them.

Ezekiel 13:14

"So I will tear down the wall which you plastered over with whitewash and bring it down to the ground, so that its foundation is laid bare; and when it falls, you will be consumed in its midst And you will know that I am the LORD.

Hosea 7:13

Woe to them, for they have strayed from Me! Destruction is theirs, for they have rebelled against Me! I would redeem them, but they speak lies against Me.

Daniel 8:25

"And through his shrewdness He will cause deceit to succeed by his influence; And he will magnify himself in his heart, And he will destroy many while they are at ease. He will even oppose the Prince of princes, But he will be broken without human agency.

Psalm 37:38

But transgressors will be altogether destroyed; The posterity of the wicked will be cut off.

Proverbs 14:11

The house of the wicked will be destroyed, But the tent of the upright will flourish.

Psalm 94:23

He has brought back their wickedness upon them And will destroy them in their evil; The LORD our God will destroy them.
 
Upvote 0