Personal Relationship with Christ

[silouanathonite]

Sometimes I hear non-Orthodox speak of a personal relationship with Christ. I never quite understood this. I just haven't the opportunity to ask someone exactly what they mean by this. I will the next time given a chance. I know that our relationship, & our faith in God is personal. I believe it is personal because God is a Person. I will say more later, but I would like hear some thoughts, from whatever your previous background is, about "A personal relationship with Christ".

 

[Dust and Ashes]

I come from a charismatic background and I always understood having a personal relationship with Jesus much the same way we have personal relationships with other people. Dedicating time to spend with Him in prayer, reading the Scriptures and just talking to Him as I would to a friend who was walking with me at any given time.

 

[ClementofRome]

A hyper-Calvinist who posts on the internet and publishes books and articles (I will not post name or website here) wrote the following (and I paraphrase....but pretty closely...italics mine):

"If what we mean by having Jesus in our heart (personal relationship with Jesus), is that nice warm feeling we get on the inside when we are emotionally moved, then we might as well drink a nice hot cup of coffee, as it will do the same thing..."

What he is getting at is that Christianity is not just some empty-headed experience, but that Christianity is something to be believed as well as experience. I believe that he was arguing against the charismatics with the above....

Forgive me. That just popped into my head when I saw the OP. It surely doesn't help answer the question.....and as a recovering Protestant, it is even hard for me to answer that question.

 

[Monica child of God 1]

It really depends on who you ask. As a Protestant, I believed that I had a personal relationship with God but I never got into the buddy-buddy mentality. For example, at my last job the events committee put together baskets for an auction to raise money for overseas projects. On of the baskets was a prayer and meditation basket. Picture what might be in there...
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Okay, now I will tell you what went in the basket: a couple boxes of tea, a china cup and saucer, a blanket, a tin of fine cookies and a devotional book. This person's idea of prayer and meditation was basicly something between curling up with a good book and having a chat with her mom. That is not meant as a slam; it really is how this particular person thought of "a personal relationship with God."

I guess I still believe I have a personal relationship with God. I believe that He knows me, hears me and that He has brought be to a place (the Church) where I can partake of Him (the Eucharist). But I am more likely to think of a corporate relationship with God, bonded together with members of His Body.

M.

 

[icedtea]

One can have both! When young, I didn't know God, now I do.
Its good to have both, just going to church and not knowing Him is not good (by this I mean praying to Him, hearing His voice), and being at home alone knowing Him isn't as good as being with The Body, either.
Does that make sense?

 

[Orthosdoxa]

As a Protestant, we were told this is what happened once you got "saved", and from then on, it didn't matter what you did, you could spit in God's face, you were "saved" and had a "relationship" with Him. As Orthodox we know it doesn't work that way. While there are many Protestants who probably do better in their walk than I do, but this particular doctrine encourages shallowness, in my experience.

 

[Orthosdoxa]

I should say, this doctrine as it was taught to me when I was a Baptist, encourages shallowness, IME.

As Orthodox, just like Monica said, we DO have a personal relationship with Christ, but we are more likely to think of the corporate experience, which is one thing that majorly sets us apart from Protestants.

 

[Monica child of God 1]

One can have both! When young, I didn't know God, now I do.
Its good to have both, just going to church and not knowing Him is not good (by this I mean praying to Him, hearing His voice), and being at home alone knowing Him isn't as good as being with The Body, either.
Does that make sense?

I see where you are coming from HD. Walking with God as well as falling on our faces is Biblical. I think there is something dangerous about having too "cozy" a view of God. I mean, we are not to have an Islamic view of God, where Allah would never take on flesh and lay in a manger. That is something only a personal God would do. But at the same time "It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (Hebrews 10:31) The sentiments of Psalm 50 do not appear compatible with having a cup of tea.

M.

 

[icedtea]

In September, I will have been 'protestant' 29 years. I have gone to many churches. I was never taught we could do what we want and its okay. We are born anew, but must grow and stay with Him.
I have learned much, lots to go.
Knowing Him perosnally and being in a body of believers is the way to go.

 

[Dust and Ashes]

A great quote from A Rumour of War that I just read today that seems applicable here.

"Evil cannot be resisted, nor God loved, through mere intellectual processes. Among the Russian martyrs of the twentieth century it was noted that when believers were sent to Communist prisons for their convictions, academics and seminarians were always the first to yield to torture and implicate their comrades. On the other hand, there were many simple Orthodox Christians who, because of their heartfelt faith in God and refusal to deny Christ, were kept in solitary confinement for many years. After a long time of such punishment, one poor sufferer found that he could no longer remember the Scriptural passages he once knew so well. Gradually even the Lord's Prayer was obliterated from his personal awareness, and all that remained was the feeling in his heart that God was real. Yet this powerful awareness, beyond all mental concepts and convictions, enabled him to survive with sanity and faith intact."

 

[Orthosdoxa]

I was never taught we could do what we want and its okay. We are born anew, but must grow and stay with Him.

Right - that's why I posted a second time to make it clear that's what *I* was taught, and was not saying it's a universal experience.

In Orthodoxy, while personal experience is not negated, there is much more emphasis on the corporate aspects of salvation. There is no such thing as "Just me, the Bible, and Jesus; I don't need nothin' else!"

 

[icedtea]

We do need the church. I have seen in my own life what can happen when one is without a church to pull you away from error, to be accountable.
I need a church.

 

[Dorothea]

I should say, this doctrine as it was taught to me when I was a Baptist, encourages shallowness, IME.

As Orthodox, just like Monica said, we DO have a personal relationship with Christ, but we are more likely to think of the corporate experience, which is one thing that majorly sets us apart from Protestants.

Orthosdoxa, in this quote and your last post, I know what you're saying. My priest told me that that type of teaching is somewhat selfish, and it's kinda like a "me, me, me" mentality; although, he wasn't saying a particular person was selfish, but that type of outlook didn't promote unselfishness.

I always thought of God as a fatherly figure that guides me, watches over me, and gives me signs when answer my prayers (whether they are what I wanted or not), and helps me to grow.

 

[Oblio]

I've never seen the question answered.

I've tried, posted threads on it, never got an answer that addressed the praxis :shrug:

 

[Jacob4707]

As a Protestant, we were told this is what happened once you got "saved", and from then on, it didn't matter what you did, you could spit in God's face, you were "saved" and had a "relationship" with Him. As Orthodox we know it doesn't work that way. While there are many Protestants who probably do better in their walk than I do, but this particular doctrine encourages shallowness, in my experience.

Well, then. you must have gone to some pretty bad Protestant churches. None of the more-than-I-can-count-on-my-fingers Protestant/Charismatic/Evangelical churches we attended or were members of for nearly 3 decades ever gave that impression. In fact, one's "relationship" with God was oftentimes said to be related to how obedient you were. Not in a legalistic sense, but in the idea that if your relationship with God was getting cold or seemed to be distant, it was not because He had moved. It had to be cultivated by prayer, obedience, seeking His face and His will, resisting the flesh and ungodly activities, etc. Yes, you were "saved," but you weren't enjoying the fullness of that relationship if you weren't seeking to please Him. It is not unlike a marriage or a human friendship in that sense.

 

[Oblio]

Isn't maintaining a relationship a 'work'

 

[Oblio]

The funny thing is, a while back I started a thread where I asked respondents to define what a 'person' is. Not ONE evangelical knew that the essence of personhood is a relationship with an other, and ultimately The Other. An I <-> Thou relationship.

 

[Dust and Ashes]

Well, then. you must have gone to some pretty bad Protestant churches. None of the more-than-I-can-count-on-my-fingers Protestant/Charismatic/Evangelical churches we attended or were members of for nearly 3 decades ever gave that impression. In fact, one's "relationship" with God was oftentimes said to be related to how obedient you were. Not in a legalistic sense, but in the idea that if your relationship with God was getting cold or seemed to be distant, it was not because He had moved. It had to be cultivated by prayer, obedience, seeking His face and His will, resisting the flesh and ungodly activities, etc. Yes, you were "saved," but you weren't enjoying the fullness of that relationship if you weren't seeking to please Him. It is not unlike a marriage or a human friendship in that sense.

I believe she comes from a Baptist background and though I've never heard it taught from the pulpit, I've certainly known many Baptists (OSAS) who demonstrated that very attitude. I didn't see that at all in the charismatic churches I attended but then it's so rare to find a charismatic church that teaches OSAS.

I know a Baptist guy who is a member of the KKK who has openly stated that he bought an insurance policy when he got saved and he can do whatever he wants. "I can go out and kill 50,000 ******* and still go to heaven because I bought an insurance policy." And this guy isn't nominal in his religion. He's there every time the doors are open and is very involved at his church. I know how that sounds but it's true.

 

[Dust and Ashes]

I must also add that this isn't typical of Baptists but is something that I've usually only seen in that denomination. I know many, many Baptists who are very humble, loving and faithful and are much better Christians than I am.

 

[Jacob4707]

...but then it's so rare to find a charismatic church that teaches OSAS.

Just about every Charismatic/Non-denominational/Evangelical Church I was referring to in my post operated under an "eternal security" assumption. NONE of them ever preached that one might be in danger of losing one's salvation if one didn't persevere and live right.