Personal Finance - How much does one need for retirement?

mukk_in

Yankees Fan
Site Supporter
Oct 13, 2009
2,852
3,872
53
Vellore, India
✟664,706.00
Country
India
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
Here's an interesting piece on personal finances for retirement. The final corpus definitely depends on lifestyle and where one retires. I'm planning and hoping on 5-10 million. What do you folks think?

For most Americans, $1.7 million is the magic retirement number

PS: Sorry. Please read the title as "How much does one need..."
 
Last edited:

timewerx

the village i--o--t--
Aug 31, 2012
15,266
5,898
✟299,159.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
If I have to mention some Christian teachings,

The Christian retirement is spending our resources to help our brothers and sisters in need instead of spending the rest of our lives in luxury.

Sadly, we can't have both. The more we spend on ourselves, the less is left for them. Lots of brothers and sisters are suffering and not enough helping hands.

It's in the Bible.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Joined2krist
Upvote 0

mukk_in

Yankees Fan
Site Supporter
Oct 13, 2009
2,852
3,872
53
Vellore, India
✟664,706.00
Country
India
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
If I have to mention some Christian teachings,

The Christian retirement is spending our resources to help our brothers and sisters in need instead of spending the rest of our lives in luxury.

Sadly, we can't have both. The more we spend on ourselves, the less is left for them. Lots of brothers and sisters are suffering and not enough helping hands.

It's in the Bible.
On the contrary, the more you give, the more the Lord pours into your lap (Luke 6:38). I've truly started prospering and enjoying wealth (2 Corinthians 9:8) when I started giving more than 10%!
 
  • Agree
Reactions: OldWiseGuy
Upvote 0

mukk_in

Yankees Fan
Site Supporter
Oct 13, 2009
2,852
3,872
53
Vellore, India
✟664,706.00
Country
India
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
I don’t have a number. My goal was a specific volume of income producing assets that would fund business, legacy, and charitable pursuits.

Is your number liquid or tied down?
Mostly fixed. We do have to factor in inflation dynamics (which is thankfully low at the moment), future health costs, family needs, etc. So, I'd say allow for a +20% variation in the goal (1 mil for example ought to be 1.2 mil). Of course, I'm still learning:).
 
Upvote 0

timewerx

the village i--o--t--
Aug 31, 2012
15,266
5,898
✟299,159.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
On the contrary, the more you give, the more the Lord pours into your lap (Luke 6:38). I've truly started prospering and enjoying wealth (2 Corinthians 9:8) when I started giving more than 10%!

Just to make things clear, prosperity from the Lord has nothing to do with material wealth.

John 6:63, John 10:10.

1 John 2:15-17.

The disciples didn't ask for it. Many of them led difficult lives and many did not even receive proper burial.
 
Upvote 0

Occams Barber

Newbie
Site Supporter
Aug 8, 2012
6,291
7,430
75
Northern NSW
✟988,187.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Divorced
Here's an interesting piece on personal finances for retirement. The final corpus definitely depends on lifestyle and where one retires. I'm planning and hoping on 5-10 million. What do you folks think?

For most Americans, $1.7 million is the magic retirement number

PS: Sorry. Please read the title as "How much does one need..."

I'm retired so I know its a lot more complex than picking a magic number. The sort of questions you (the collective you) need to ask include:
  • What is the impact of tax on your retirement income? For instance I pay no tax on some components of my retirement income because I'm beyond the minimum retirement age, i.e., an employed person on my income would pay more tax.
  • Will you be entitled to a government provided age pension? In the UK for example everyone gets the full pension regardless of their capital/asset value. Australia also has an age pension but it's means tested. As your income goes up your pension entitlement decreases. I don't know about the US (or India)
  • Will you own your own house? If you pay rent then you need more income.
  • Will you still have dependents? A wife or dependent kids obviously adds to your costs.
  • Will your wife/husband (if you have one) be bringing in an income? These days a spouse will often have his or her own retirement income.
  • How long will you live? Face it. If you're shuffling off in a year or so you can spend what you like.
  • Do you want to leave stuff for the kids? If so, this limits what you can take out of your retirement funds.
  • What lifestyle are you looking for? Baked beans or caviar? Luxury trips to Paris or are you happy spending a couple of nights in a tent in the backyard? What sort of car will you want?
  • Have you factored inflation into your arithmetic? The value of money drops with time
  • What sort of annual return can you expect on your retirement investment? This is the biggie since it determines everything else
If you're living on invested capital it must:
a) give you a retirement income
and
b) increase in value each year, after giving you an income, to allow for inflation​

As an example; my investments have returned an average of 10% per annum for the past 3 years. (Thanks to Trump/China, and some problems with Australian banks, last year was bad news - around 7%). Allowing 2 to 3% for inflation, I can't rake off an annual income of more than 7% of my investment or I risk seeing my capital fall. Genetically speaking, I will probably live to 100, so I need to keep my capital increasing.

If we take my 7% figure and apply it to Mukk's $1.7 million you get an annual income of around $120,000. Most people will never save $1.7 mill for retirement and few people need a retirement income of $120,000.

Conclusion: $1.7 million is ridiculously high, well beyond what most people need and beyond the reach of most of us.

The correct approach is to determine the income you need/want in retirement and then plan to accumulate enough capital to provide that income plus inflation (if you can). Otherwise revise your income needs downward and go for the baked beans.:(
OB
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: mukk_in
Upvote 0

bèlla

❤️
Site Supporter
Jan 16, 2019
20,709
17,847
USA
✟947,641.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
In Relationship
Mostly fixed. We do have to factor in inflation dynamics (which is thankfully low at the moment), future health costs, family needs, etc. So, I'd say allow for a +20% variation in the goal (1 mil for example ought to be 1.2 mil). Of course, I'm still learning:).

I think you’ll sleep better with a tiered approach that’s not relying on inflation or wishful thinking about the unexpected.

You need active sources of income that pay on a regular basis in addition to holdings which provide additional earnings. The easiest way to broach this is with a tiered approach which leverages your expertise.

This needn’t relate to your professional experiences, but it should be a subject you’re conversant in and passionate about discussing. For the sake of this discussion, let’s assume it’s real estate.

The principle of retirement has been misrepresented to the populace. A modest understanding of math coupled with the realities of cost of living increases and rising medical expenses due to age should reveal the challenge of pinning down a number. At best you’re guessing unless you began with a large influx of cash or expect a legacy from a relative.

Wealthy people don’t retire. The concept is broached differently. You begin by determining the monetary level you need to have on a regular basis. This number is important. It impacts your time assignments, activities and investments. Working capital is always a factor. It is never constructed with a stationary number that’s dependent on interest rates. That’s the bonus. It’s rarely the main source.

Let’s assume your ideal is $5 million per annum. By choosing a yearly outcome you’ll leverage your activities and have little difficulty making adjustments when required. None of this matters if you don’t embrace the necessity of minding your money. You are always the CEO of your finances. Don’t pass the responsibility on to someone else. They don’t bear the consequences of their mistakes. You do.

Take your yearly number and divide it by 52. This provides a weekly target. The next step is where retirement goes awry. You don’t remove your hand from the plow. You reduce your time plowing. In other words, the next number is dependent on the reduced hours you want to devote to maintaining your working capital.

If you’ve decided that 20 hours is your sweet spot that becomes your guideline. Therefore, $5 million annum would reflect $97,000 (rounded up) of weekly income. Divided by 20 hours of maintenance equals a $4,900 (rounded up) target. This is your ROI.

You would limit yourself to activities that generate this number. This is why many professionals write books and give speeches. Books are a bypath to the speaking circuit. They’re leveraging their knowledge and building a customer base through their actions that will support future endeavors. You could do the same with a podcast or video whose intended goal are apps and other products. Scale counts.

The 20 hour investment generates ‘working capital’ which funds multi-term investments without depreciating your principle. This is the number the wealthy live on. They don’t burn through their savings and needn’t fear the unexpected because their activities are strengthening the nest and funding future legacies and charitable gifts.

That’s why their estates are so plentiful upon death.
 
Upvote 0

mukk_in

Yankees Fan
Site Supporter
Oct 13, 2009
2,852
3,872
53
Vellore, India
✟664,706.00
Country
India
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
I think you’ll sleep better with a tiered approach that’s not relying on inflation or wishful thinking about the unexpected.

You need active sources of income that pay on a regular basis in addition to holdings which provide additional earnings. The easiest way to broach this is with a tiered approach which leverages your expertise.

This needn’t relate to your professional experiences, but it should be a subject you’re conversant in and passionate about discussing. For the sake of this discussion, let’s assume it’s real estate.

The principle of retirement has been misrepresented to the populace. A modest understanding of math coupled with the realities of cost of living increases and rising medical expenses due to age should reveal the challenge of pinning down a number. At best you’re guessing unless you began with a large influx of cash or expect a legacy from a relative.

Wealthy people don’t retire. The concept is broached differently. You begin by determining the monetary level you need to have on a regular basis. This number is important. It impacts your time assignments, activities and investments. Working capital is always a factor. It is never constructed with a stationary number that’s dependent on interest rates. That’s the bonus. It’s rarely the main source.

Let’s assume your ideal is $5 million per annum. By choosing a yearly outcome you’ll leverage your activities and have little difficulty making adjustments when required. None of this matters if you don’t embrace the necessity of minding your money. You are always the CEO of your finances. Don’t pass the responsibility on to someone else. They don’t bear the consequences of their mistakes. You do.

Take your yearly number and divide it by 52. This provides a weekly target. The next step is where retirement goes awry. You don’t remove your hand from the plow. You reduce your time plowing. In other words, the next number is dependent on the reduced hours you want to devote to maintaining your working capital.

If you’ve decided that 20 hours is your sweet spot that becomes your guideline. Therefore, $5 million annum would reflect $97,000 (rounded up) of weekly income. Divided by 20 hours of maintenance equals a $4,900 (rounded up) target. This is your ROI.

You would limit yourself to activities that generate this number. This is why many professionals write books and give speeches. Books are a bypath to the speaking circuit. They’re leveraging their knowledge and building a customer base through their actions that will support future endeavors. You could do the same with a podcast or video whose intended goal are apps and other products. Scale counts.

The 20 hour investment generates ‘working capital’ which funds multi-term investments without depreciating your principle. This is the number the wealthy live on. They don’t burn through their savings and needn’t fear the unexpected because their activities are strengthening the nest and funding future legacies and charitable gifts.

That’s why their estates are so plentiful upon death.
Thanks for the lengthy input. Investments are staggered and contrary to what you just said I don't need any income other than what my investments generate. Reason, I don't spend much. Has been working for me. I don't even need a salary and can retire right now. I've started investing 20 years ago across all asset classes and countries as well. By God's grace it's been working so well that I'm able to give 20% to charity without touching my retirement investments. Yes, scale is needed. Hence, a corpus of 3-5 times what would actually be needed at retirement.

Kinda curious, how many years of investing experience do you have? Be sure others aren't confused by your theories:).
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

bèlla

❤️
Site Supporter
Jan 16, 2019
20,709
17,847
USA
✟947,641.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
In Relationship
Kinda curious, how many years of investing experience do you have? Be sure others aren't confused by your theories:).

I began working in wealth management in my early twenties and exited the workforce permanently in my mid-30’s. I’ve been home full-time for nearly 13 years and I’m preparing my daughter for a similar exodus at 30. She has a year-and-a-half to go.

I wouldn’t expect anyone to readily accept random comments on the Internet. God’s grace and gifts have enabled me to redirect my focus to new ventures that are purposeful and deeply satisfying.

I’m happy to hear you’ve been able to do the same. :)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

mukk_in

Yankees Fan
Site Supporter
Oct 13, 2009
2,852
3,872
53
Vellore, India
✟664,706.00
Country
India
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
I began working in wealth management in my early twenties and exited the workforce permanently in my mid-30’s. I’ve been home full-time for nearly 13 years and I’m preparing my daughter for a similar exodus at 30. She has a year-and-a-half to go.

I wouldn’t expect anyone to readily accept random comments on the Internet. God’s grace and gifts have enabled me to redirect my focus to new ventures that are purposeful and deeply satisfying.

I’m happy to hear you’ve been able to do the same. :)
That's correct. I generally take advice from those still in the business, my broker. People are free to debate these issues.
 
Upvote 0

Striver

"There is still hope."
Feb 27, 2004
225
34
South Carolina
✟24,794.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I honestly don't plan on retiring, based upon my own understanding of staying active and the increasingly convoluted picture of retirement for my generation. But then, like another poster shares here, I am not even sure true retirement is sitting on a beach for the remainder of my life. As I get older, keeping my mind focused and learning is important to me.

It's not the end-all-be-all, but I would recommend playing with Chris Hogan's tool (Retire Inspired – Take Chris Hogan’s R:IQ Retirement Assessment | Chris Hogan). It's probably the most trustworthy free resource in my book. It will give you a number for the level of lifestyle you want to lead. Costs continue to be the wildcard, particularly in the medical arena, but it's something.

I mean, I would say my number runs $2-3 million in my head, but that is more of a guide than anything. I would suggest continuing to seek ways for "passive" income as well as keeping some profitable hobby or job that will keep the mind sharp.

One poster has already illustrated this quite well, but most FIRE/early retirements you see still see the people working, they just find things they have fun doing and work a lot less.

As far as biblical guidance, I would never use a one-verse wonder in the financial arena. Jesus actually talks about money A LOT, and it is part of many parables. I shouldn't have to even state we should give and help others. With that said, Proverbs 21:20 is a verse I bring to mind often:

Precious treasure and oil are in the dwelling of the wise, but a foolish man consumes them.

I cannot subscribe to poverty theology nor prosperity gospel. There were Christians of all economic stripes, and the middle class, working class, and destitute are no more or less holy than the rich. The Bible calls for us to be wise in what we are given in all arenas. Some of us have little, some of us have much. Praise God for what he does give.
 
Upvote 0

bèlla

❤️
Site Supporter
Jan 16, 2019
20,709
17,847
USA
✟947,641.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
In Relationship
I honestly don't plan on retiring, based upon my own understanding of staying active and the increasingly convoluted picture of retirement for my generation.

As I mentioned, retirement isn’t the norm for those with means. They use a redistribution of time. I don’t count legacies in my working number. I have other designs for them.

I think you have the right concept. Having a steady income stream will allow you to respond to the unexpected without fear.

With the increasing volatility in our country, no one can accurately say what life will look like in ten years let alone 20. Things are changing rapidly.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,500
Milwaukee
✟410,948.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,981
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟960,122.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
On the contrary, the more you give, the more the Lord pours into your lap (Luke 6:38). I've truly started prospering and enjoying wealth (2 Corinthians 9:8) when I started giving more than 10%!

I agree. I tithed my meager income for many years, which kept me literally in poverty. I'm no longer tithing but I do contribute to many charities. I have been richly blessed since. Regarding how much one needs for retirement? I'd say that depends on how long you continue to work and what kind of retirement you envision. Everyone is different.
 
Upvote 0