'Persecuted' Western Christians Should Grow Up

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Hetta

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The Bible doesn't say squat about Chik Fil A so you are barking up the wrong tree there.

I also follow scripture, but I interpret it differently, but whereas I know that there numerous different ways to interpret scripture, you believe that only your way is the correct way, and that I am "wrong" for not following scripture YOUR way (making a fast food director into some kind of martyr for goodness sake) and it doesn't follow far behind that if I don't interpret scripture the way that you do, therefore I am not a Christian. I come across that attitude here a LOT, and let me tell you, it is driving more and more Christians away from Christ.
 
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Psalm 91

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You never laugh at comedians? You never laugh at a joke? LOL.

So, you would seek to silence any comment but agreement? Good luck with that.

I am not going to go on the defensive. If I broke a rule, you will have to make a report.

This is silly. I am not going to go around this any more, but the OP is right, and I agree with the commentary that he linked. :thumbsup:


I never said that I seek to silence anyone. I would also never make a report. I strongly believe that a person should confront anyone they are having a problem with. Going behind their back is childish, IMO.

I'm pretty much a serious person since 2006 or whatever year it was when insurgents were using our soldiers for target practice in Iraq.

I guess you and I are just different. I didn't see it as silly at all.
 
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Psalm 91

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The Bible doesn't say squat about Chik Fil A so you are barking up the wrong tree there.

I also follow scripture, but I interpret it differently, but whereas I know that there numerous different ways to interpret scripture, you believe that only your way is the correct way, and that I am "wrong" for not following scripture YOUR way (making a fast food director into some kind of martyr for goodness sake) and it doesn't follow far behind that if I don't interpret scripture the way that you do, therefore I am not a Christian. I come across that attitude here a LOT, and let me tell you, it is driving more and more Christians away from Christ.


Perhaps they realized that they couldn't make God in their own image.
 
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Lethe

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I know that there numerous different ways to interpret scripture, you believe that only your way is the correct way, and that I am "wrong" for not following scripture YOUR way (making a fast food director into some kind of martyr for goodness sake) and it doesn't follow far behind that if I don't interpret scripture the way that you do, therefore I am not a Christian.
I've never understood ecumenicalism and the notion of a united Christian identity. It has always seemed to me absurd that numerous denominations whose very existence is predicated on mutually exclusive points of theology, would make such a strong effort to create a "Christian" cultural identity. If there was one definition of Christian we'd have one denomination. Therefore who label is suspect, since means very different things to different people.

I try to use the broadest possible thinking when someone tosses out, "Christian." As in, this person likes/believes in Jesus Christ.
 
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BlandOatmeal

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I am extremely confused as to what you feel is necessary to fight back against in the Western industrialized world.
Your answer was to USexpat's statement that the Muslims don't whine; they fight back. To be precise, they tend to fight back; then they tend to whine if you fight back at their fighting back. As one man put it, who grew up around Arab Muslim kids, "They hit you, then they cry."
 
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Psalm 91

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You just proved my point although I doubt you realize the irony of that statement.


There is no irony. It is not I who is guilty of that but those who want God to be all warm and fuzzy and tolerant of all sin for all time without consequences or punishment. Kind of like a great big teddy bear in the sky.
 
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Hetta

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There is no irony. It is not I who is guilty of that but those who want God to be all warm and fuzzy and tolerant of all sin for all time without consequences or punishment. Kind of like a great big teddy bear in the sky.
Evidently you can read people's minds. I cannot. So I don't know if anyone actually does think what you claim they think.
 
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TheDag

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It forbids murder. Nice try.

In biblical times abortion was not seen as wrong. the jewish view was and is that life begins with the first breath as that is when adams life began. the current view that you can't be christian and support abortion only came about around 1980.
 
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It appears some western Christians think in terms of their being persecuted as in direct contrast to the liberal evolution of the secular domain wherein those the Christian faith doctrine thought rightly designated as second class due to their sinner status, are now being liberated by man's law. Which can appear to be in direct conflict with god's law.

And as such the persecution complex sets in because no longer does the one way of seeing things apply most everywhere you look.

 
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TheDag

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I believe you've done a stellar job of pointing out the OP which was that Christians in this country have a persecution complex that is proportional to their sense of self importance.
garbage. the OP was claiming that since persecution is not as bad as in some other countries then it isn't actually persecution.

I've never understood ecumenicalism and the notion of a united Christian identity. It has always seemed to me absurd that numerous denominations whose very existence is predicated on mutually exclusive points of theology, would make such a strong effort to create a "Christian" cultural identity. If there was one definition of Christian we'd have one denomination. Therefore who label is suspect, since means very different things to different people.

I try to use the broadest possible thinking when someone tosses out, "Christian." As in, this person likes/believes in Jesus Christ.
All Christian denominations agree on essentials and celebrating that unity really should not be illogical to you. It is only minor unimportant matters they disagree on. I could point to several organisations that believe slightly different things yet nobody would say that is stupid when they do things together. Do gay lobby groups agree with every single thing that civil liberties groups believe? Of course not yet the two groups have worked together to promote changing marriage laws.
 
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TheDag

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It's called free speech. The owner of Chik Fil A had free speech to air his views, and others also had free speech to air their own views. People are allowed to choose where to eat. That's NOT persecution. I don't eat at McDonalds because of the damage that the organization does to the world (plus their food sucks) - am I persecuting McDonalds? Will they go out of business because I don't eat there? LOL. That's NOT persecution.
Giving your own opinion = free speech. Choosing where to eat and not to eat = no problem. Campaigning to stop a store being opened simply because a person has a different opinion on homosexuality to you = persecution. Is it the same as you may lose your life persecution? No of course not but that does not mean it is not persecution. There are movements within the gay lobby to make it illegal for churches to refuse to do same sex marriages. Yet there hasn't been groups of people coming out saying hey that is wrong. Rather all those who said they would defend the churches right to refuse same sex marriages have been strangely silent. So over time I can see eventually being a main idea and a similar campaign to force churches to do SSM. I base that on seeing campaign after campaign for changes all start that way. Remember when plenty of non-religious people used to scoff at the idea of allowing SSM? Yet some of those same people now call people who say SSM shouldn't be allowed are bigots.

The Bible doesn't say squat about Chik Fil A so you are barking up the wrong tree there.
That the bible does not mention Chik Fil A is totally irrelevant. What does matter is does the bible talk about the situation. The NT tends to teach principles to follow rather than specific laws like the OT did. The bible speaks about everything if you follow the principles taught. The bible doesn't mention heroin or LSD after all.
 
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TheDag

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Science has proven that there is human DNA at the moment of conception. Therefore a human is being murdered during an abortion.
no that does not follow. that is just your opinion. there are things where human dna is present but nobody (not even the most hardened pro-lifer) would consider to be a life. There is human dna present when a person is dead. Would you consider them to be alive? Of course not.

it gives me ten commandments to follow,
The ten commandments no longer apply. The nine of them that are repeated in the NT certainly do apply. Picking and choosing what parts of the bible to follow is not appropriate behaviour for a Christian. We are under the new covenant now and therefore the old covenant does not apply. If one wants to say the old covenant does still apply then you can not pick and choose which parts of the old covenant to follow.
 
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Lethe

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TheDag said:
All Christian denominations agree on essentials and celebrating that unity really should not be illogical to you.

Oh yeah?

Unity or Trinity?
Did Jesus Christ sin?
Divinity of Christ?
Works or grace?
Baptism at birth or baptism at puberty or baptism as an adult? (or say, after death?)
Does Satan exist?
Is there a hell?

I would cite denominations but I really don't have the time for dismissing your blatantly errant claim.

These are major, major tenants of the faith and I can hear your stammering now, "but people who don't believe X aren't really Christian."
 
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Lethe

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Picking and choosing what parts of the bible to follow is not appropriate behaviour for a Christian. We are under the new covenant now and therefore the old covenant does not apply.

Paul's misogyny notwithstanding, amirite?
 
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BlandOatmeal

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In biblical times abortion was not seen as wrong. the jewish view was and is that life begins with the first breath as that is when adams life began. the current view that you can't be christian and support abortion only came about around 1980.
Dag,

You know that this thread isn't about abortion, but about persecution. I have quite a bit to talk to you about concerning abortion, mostly about my wonderful, 2-month-premature grandson that my daughter struggled to keep after early contractions began when it was only 17 weeks in gestation. Her baby was very much alive at 17 weeks, was very much alive when it was born (at an age when unscrupulous so-called "doctors" do what they call "reduction" of the fetus by tearing it limb from limb), and he is wonderfully alive and healthy today -- despite the fact that when my daughter was struggling with the baby in her and an infection, she was told that he had an elevated risk of being born with Downs' Syndrome.

Jesus said, concerning unborn children like my grandson,

Matthew 18
[1] At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
[2] And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
[3] And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
[4] Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
[5] And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
[6] But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
[7] Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

Those are very strong words. As for your own sterile, thoughtless words, unborn children were considered as alive in the Bible; and the father was compensated if a malefactor caused the mother of his unborn child to abort. Moreover, religious Jews oppose abortion as much as the Catholic Church does, and the foul profession of the abortionist is nowhere mentioned in the Bible.

That said, of course, because you brought up the matter, I will reiterate that my mention of abortion laws was as an example of how laws which go contrary to traditional Christian understanding have become the norm in formerly White Christian countries; whereas among the Muslims, Buddhists and nonwhite Christian countries, traditional Christian values are still legally upheld. That is a great irony, which is reinforced by laws against capital punishment and promoting homosexuality in those same countries.

In case you should want to go on with this matter, I will add that the nonwhite Christian countries, such as those in southern Africa, are rife with corruption and heterosexual AIDS. They are not beacons of Godly conduct; and on Judgment day, I imagine there will be a great deal of finger-pointing in both directions. Those who are not ashamed of the gospel and of God's son in that day, though, need not fear that God will be ashamed of them. That is the hope of Christ.

Those who persecute others, however, and falsely accuse them; and those who use the RICO act that was intended to be used against gangsters, turning it instead to throw Godly pro-life supporters in jail; those wicked people will be judged by God with a like judgment, but an eternal one. It is a horrible prospect.

Shalom shalom :wave:
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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Florida Professor Makes Students “Stomp on Jesus”

That story title is a mischaracterization of what went on in the class at best, and a propagandistic lie at worst.

Officials at a Florida college ordered a group of students to shut down a Bible study they were holding in the privacy of a dorm room – because it violated the rules.

Christians being told they cannot break campus dorm rules are being persecuted? :confused:

A Florida family is facing fines for hosting a weekly Bible study in their home – an act that city officials argue violates zoning codes.

Christians not being allowed to violate zoning codes is persecution? :confused:
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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And if you want to talk persecution, fine.

Violent/property hate crimes, 2011. FBI statistics.

Of the 1,480 victims of an anti-religious hate crime:

63.2 percent were victims of an offender’s anti-Jewish bias.
12.5 percent were victims of an anti-Islamic bias.
5.7 percent were victims of an anti-Catholic bias.
4.4 percent were victims of a bias against groups of individuals of varying religions (anti-multiple religions, group).
3.4 percent were victims of an anti-Protestant bias.
0.3 percent were victims of an anti-Atheist/Agnostic bias.
10.5 percent were victims of a bias against other religions (anti-other religion).

Sikh's have had a particularly tough time of it since 9/11 thanks to ignorant "patriots".
Timeline: A History of Violence against Sikhs in the Wake of 9/11 | TIME.com
 
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