'Persecuted' Western Christians Should Grow Up

[Lethe]

I was, of course, voicing MY opinion, which I don't have to prove to you.

I believe you've done a stellar job of pointing out the OP which was that Christians in this country have a persecution complex that is proportional to their sense of self importance.

 

[Hetta]

Well, 'cause it's happening in the US, of course. Christians in America aren't bothered about Christians macheted in Nigeria or machine-gunned in Pakistan or burned alive in India or disappeared in Japan or raped with farm implements in North Korea. They don't count as "end-times persecution."

but not being allowed to put a creche on the town square in Boston--that's end-times persecution.

Also, homosexual pride parades. That's persecution, too.

I am reposting this because I wonder why first world Christians don't even get it. THIS is persecution. Someone having a different opinion and debating it with you is NOT.

 

[Lethe]

BlandOatmeal, I find it fascinating that you feel the need to demand an apology of me for something I said that was true, and backed up with a reference (which you also demanded) and yet you also need to point out that you don't need to justify your opinion to me.

We call that, "hypocrisy."

And for the record:

As for Russia's law, it forbids promoting CERTAIN sexual relations with minors -- whereas US law forbids having ANY sexual relations with minors -- minors who, not too long ago, had the right to marry in most states without parental consent. Which law is the most oppressive?

Please examine the bolded words and observe their difference.

This little move:

For the sake of the discussion, there is no difference.

Is nonsense. There is absolutely a difference between having sex and talking about sex and if you're going to conflate the two "for the sake of this discussion," then we're done talking, because you're not behaving even close to rationally.

 

[wing2000]

I am reposting this because I wonder why first world Christians don't even get it. THIS is persecution. Someone having a different opinion and debating it with you is NOT.

...probably because many have never stepped foot outside their comfortable life style in the US.

 

[Lethe]

THIS is persecution. Someone having a different opinion and debating it with you is NOT.

BUT MY FEELINGS!

 

[Picky Picky]

Rowan Williams was the Archbishop who at one time said people in Great Britain were going to just have to get use to the idea that Sharia law was an unavoidable eventuality, right? And then he recanted under pressure from his superiors.

Persecution is relative Mr.Williams. Archbishops should not deem it their right to tell others who are persecuted that they're imagining things when their suffering isn't anywhere near on the scale of others being persecuted.

Mind your business in your own backyard. One that has enough trouble with persecution in its own right.

I'm not sure who exactly you think the Archbishop of Canterbury's "superiors" are, or whether Dr Williams would agree with your definition, but if you want to know what he actually said about Sharia (and I warn you it isn't quite as easy to follow as you might hope; or as foolishly liberal either) it is here:

Archbishop's lecture - Civil and Religious Law in England: a…

 

[Hetta]

BUT MY FEELINGS!

 

[essentialsaltes]

Lethe claimed that Russian homosexuals were being persecuted for WHO THEY ARE. They are not, and Lethe should apologize for her statements.

Oh, please. If that's the kind of hairsplitting you want to indulge in, then Christians have even less right to complain about persecution.

The cakebakers aren't being 'persecuted' for being Christian. It's because they wouldn't bake a cake for gay people.

The early martyrs weren't persecuted for being Christian. It's because they refused to worship the imperial family.

 

[Supreme]

I agree with Dr Williams, who I see as a good man who follows his conscience. Western Christians need to grow up and stop crying persecution every time they see a Christmas card with the word 'Happy Holidays'. In fact, if Western Christians are so worried about persecution, they should be doing all they can- political lobbying, awareness, funding- to help those Christians in Pakistan, Iraq, North Korea, Iran etc who genuinely do face persecution on a daily basis. If they did so, we could help to make the world a better place.

 

[Savior2006]

From the article.


"Klein said he’s had to take a fulltime job hauling garbage just to pay the bills and feed his five children."

Well, he was already hauling a bunch of garbage when he tried to use religion as a shield for his idiocy.

 

[usexpat97]

Muslims don't whine about persecution, either--they fight back. But apparently that is wrong, too.

 

[Lethe]

Muslims don't whine about persecution, either--they fight back. But apparently that is wrong, too.

I am extremely confused as to what you feel is necessary to fight back against in the Western industrialized world.

 

[Psalm 91]

Our government is supposed to be secular and not favor any one religion, but allow each religion to flourish on its own terms. They seem to be doing a fairly decent job at that. Look, they are not even trying to shut down Christian messageboards.

Maybe that's because most of the people who post on Christian messageboards are Democrat and make fun of everything that doesn't go along with Liberalism.

 

[Psalm 91]

The Bible does not speak against abortion. Nice try, though.

Yes it does. "Thou shalt not kill."

 

[Psalm 91]

This post illustrates the OP's point well. It can't get any pettier than, "you're persecuting me by pointing out how not persecuted I am." Sheesh! Give me a break.

And, FTR, I am a Christian and a faithful follower of Christ, not some Atheist or humanist.

Then why do you side with those who are against Christ? Don't you know that in the end times Christians will be mocked by the majority?

 

[Psalm 91]

That's right. We're persecuting you. And it's not just usual persecution, it's end times persecution.

What exactly have we said in the thread that qualifies as end times level persecution?

Well, we're living in the end times. That is what qualifies it as end times level persecution. Read what Scripture says about Christians will be mocked.

 

[dies-l]

Well, we're living in the end times. That is what qualifies it as end times level persecution. Read what Scripture says about Christians will be mocked.

You don't think Christians were mocked 1900 years ago?

 

[Psalm 91]

Well, 'cause it's happening in the US, of course. Christians in America aren't bothered about Christians macheted in Nigeria or machine-gunned in Pakistan or burned alive in India or disappeared in Japan or raped with farm implements in North Korea. They don't count as "end-times persecution."

but not being allowed to put a creche on the town square in Boston--that's end-times persecution.

Also, homosexual pride parades. That's persecution, too.

Who has said we don't care, other than you? Most people who get "Voice of the Martyrs" magazine are mostly Christians. Donations to Samaritan's Purse are mostly Christians. I can't say for sure, but I believe that most of the prayers for the martyrs come from Christians and if Christians and American Center for Law and Justice had not been so vocal and pressured Hilary Clinton, Pastor Saeed or whatever his name is, (I just prayed for "that pastor") would never have been released from prison in Iran. The one who is there now, is not doing well in spite of ACLJ because Fox is not reporting the torture and hell will freeze over before John Kerry does anything.

My heart breaks for the Chinese Christians and any foreign Christians who are being persecuted. But in some ways they are more fortunate than us. We take our faith for granted and they so appreciate it and nurture it. They know how important their reliance on God is.

 

[dies-l]

Then why do you side with those who are against Christ?

I don't. I happen to be in concurrence with many non-Christians on this issue. I express my concurrence because it breaks my heart as a Christian to see the body of Christ represented by a small but very loud minority of Christians who cannot distinguish between real persecution and free exercise of religious liberty. Personally, I think if we faced real persecution in this country, we would soon find out who is seriously committed to Christ and who is just a cultural Christian. I suspect that those who whine about the pseudo persecution that we see now (i.e., people disagreeing with you, expressing contrary religious views, and even once in a while belittling your own views) will be among the first to turn away when being a follower of Jesus gets difficult.

Don't you know that in the end times Christians will be mocked by the majority?

In America, last time I checked "Christians" were the majority. However, there have been plenty of places throughout history and around the world today that Christians are mocked and legitimately persecuted by non-Christian majorities. America is not one of them.

 

[Psalm 91]

To be fair, nothing in Scripture suggests that abortion falls within the definition of murder. That said, I oppose abortion (just as I oppose capital punishment, unjust war, etc.), but I am the first to admit that the Bible is far from clear on the topic.

Science has proven that there is human DNA at the moment of conception. Therefore a human is being murdered during an abortion.