'Persecuted' Western Christians Should Grow Up

[Paradoxum]

Christians in Britain and the US who claim that they are persecuted should "grow up" and not exaggerate what amounts to feeling "mildly uncomfortable", according to Rowan Williams, who last year stepped down as archbishop of Canterbury after an often turbulent decade.

"When you've had any contact with real persecuted minorities you learn to use the word very chastely," he said. "Persecution is not being made to feel mildly uncomfortable. 'For goodness sake, grow up,' I want to say."

True persecution was "systematic brutality and often murderous hostility that means that every morning you wonder if you and your children are going to live through the day". He cited the experience of a woman he met in India "who had seen her husband butchered by a mob".

Rowan Williams tells 'persecuted' western Christians to grow up | UK news | The Guardian

I like Rowan Williams, and just thought this was quite interesting.

 

[BlandOatmeal]

Christians in Britain and the US who claim that they are persecuted should "grow up" and not exaggerate what amounts to feeling "mildly uncomfortable", according to Rowan Williams, who last year stepped down as archbishop of Canterbury after an often turbulent decade.

"When you've had any contact with real persecuted minorities you learn to use the word very chastely," he said. "Persecution is not being made to feel mildly uncomfortable. 'For goodness sake, grow up,' I want to say."

True persecution was "systematic brutality and often murderous hostility that means that every morning you wonder if you and your children are going to live through the day". He cited the experience of a woman he met in India "who had seen her husband butchered by a mob".

Rowan Williams tells 'persecuted' western Christians to grow up | UK news | The Guardian

I like Rowan Williams, and just thought this was quite interesting.

A friend of mine used to say, "If Christianity were to become illegal, would there be enough evidence in your life to convict you?"

 

[PrayerandPeace]

"Persecution is not being made to feel mildly uncomfortable. 'For goodness sake, grow up,' I want to say."

This should go for everyone then.

 

[TheDag]

That is one definition. However I would rather not wait until things get to that stage then cry persecution but rather call it when I see it. That doesn't mean it is always persecution. For example years ago different faiths said If the Christians get to teach scripture in schools why shouldn't we be allowed. Many Christians were crying persecution. Nope that is equal treatment. When a former minister and archbishop was made governor-general(GG) it was found out that years earlier when it had been standard practice (on the advice of psychologists) to move child sex offenders around to other places that he had done that. Many groups started a campaign against him causing him to eventually resign. However not one single one of those groups said anything when the new GG was appointed who had ordered kids be murdered as well as plenty of other innocent people. That is persecution. Why? Because they attacked a Christian for doing the same thing that a non-Christian did yet were silent when the non-Christian did them.

 

[dies-l]

This should go for everyone then.

Yes. It should. And as a Christian, I believe we should be the first to change our own attitudes instead of complaining about others' attitudes.

 

[Psalm 91]

I guess this guy thinks we should wait until we are arrested. Sheesh. I have such a problem with liberal people. They KNOW that they will be forever safe.

 

[dies-l]

I guess this guy thinks we should wait until we are arrested. Sheesh. I have such a problem with liberal people. They KNOW that they will be forever safe.

Nah. Liberals can be just as bad as conservatives. With liberals, it's all about racism and "homophobia". With you guys it's about religious persecution. The reality is that the majority of it on both sides is what I would call social Munchausen.

 

[Psalm 91]

Nah. Liberals can be just as bad as conservatives. With liberals, it's all about racism and "homophobia". With you guys it's about religious persecution. The reality is that the majority of it on both sides is what I would call social Munchausen.

I'm a conservative and I never think about religious persecution except at Christmas. But if they start arresting pastors... Well, then it may already be too late.

For me, it's about liberalism in general. Everything is OK. Do whatever you want and if anyone objects he's as you say, a racist or homophobic or intolerant or bigoted. No one is supposed to have the nerve to discourage their destructive ideas.

 

[TheDag]

I'm a conservative and I never think about religious persecution except at Christmas. But if they start arresting pastors... Well, then it may already be too late.

For me, it's about liberalism in general. Everything is OK. Do whatever you want and if anyone objects he's as you say, a racist or homophobic or intolerant or bigoted. No one is supposed to have the nerve to discourage their destructive ideas.

The problem with liberals is if you disagree then you are bigoted and hateful. The problem with conservatives is if you disagree even on just one thing then you are a liberal trying to ruin the country. We need to learn that just because a person disagrees does not mean you can't be friends and get on with each other.

 

[dies-l]

For me, it's about liberalism in general. Everything is OK. Do whatever you want and if anyone objects he's as you say, a racist or homophobic or intolerant or bigoted. No one is supposed to have the nerve to discourage their destructive ideas.

That is a valid criticism of many on both sides: those who cry "persecution" and those who cry "intolerance" when anyone dares to disagree.

 

[Oafman]

I think Dr Williams might have forgotten just how brutal the war on Christmas can be. Referring to that time of year as Winterval is a clear example of persecution.

 

[Paradoxum]

A friend of mine used to say, "If Christianity were to become illegal, would there be enough evidence in your life to convict you?"

I've heard that too.

That is one definition. However I would rather not wait until things get to that stage then cry persecution but rather call it when I see it. That doesn't mean it is always persecution. For example years ago different faiths said If the Christians get to teach scripture in schools why shouldn't we be allowed. Many Christians were crying persecution. Nope that is equal treatment. When a former minister and archbishop was made governor-general(GG) it was found out that years earlier when it had been standard practice (on the advice of psychologists) to move child sex offenders around to other places that he had done that. Many groups started a campaign against him causing him to eventually resign. However not one single one of those groups said anything when the new GG was appointed who had ordered kids be murdered as well as plenty of other innocent people. That is persecution. Why? Because they attacked a Christian for doing the same thing that a non-Christian did yet were silent when the non-Christian did them.

GG= Governor-General?

Why did you get a murderer as a Governor-General? :s

I guess this guy thinks we should wait until we are arrested. Sheesh. I have such a problem with liberal people. They KNOW that they will be forever safe.

No, he's saying there it probably isn't right to call it persecution unless it is serious. Why do you have a problem with liberal people?

I'm a conservative and I never think about religious persecution except at Christmas. But if they start arresting pastors... Well, then it may already be too late.

For me, it's about liberalism in general. Everything is OK. Do whatever you want and if anyone objects he's as you say, a racist or homophobic or intolerant or bigoted. No one is supposed to have the nerve to discourage their destructive ideas.

Everything isn't ok with liberalism. You're just hating on a stawman. If you think about it, you know liberals never say everything is ok.

I personally have no problem with conservatives saying that homosexuality immoral. The problem comes when they try to force their religion into law.

The problem with liberals is if you disagree then you are bigoted and hateful. The problem with conservatives is if you disagree even on just one thing then you are a liberal trying to ruin the country. We need to learn that just because a person disagrees does not mean you can't be friends and get on with each other.

That's a bit of a generalisation though isn't it. As I said above, I don't really have a problem with conservatives saying homosexuality is wrong. The problem comes when some conservatives push their religion on others by force of law. Mere disagreement on moral issues isn't the problem.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'm a conservative and I never think about religious persecution except at Christmas. But if they start arresting pastors... Well, then it may already be too late.

For me, it's about liberalism in general. Everything is OK. Do whatever you want and if anyone objects he's as you say, a racist or homophobic or intolerant or bigoted. No one is supposed to have the nerve to discourage their destructive ideas.

As a liberal-leaning moderate, I don't have any problem with those who try to discourage what they perceive as "destructive behavior". I do, however, think its a problem when they try to create laws based on nothing more than their personal beliefs.

 

[cow451]

Sorry if anyone takes offense, but many "Conservative" Christians have become the chronic whiners and complainers that they said liberals were.

 

[Joykins]

I guess this guy thinks we should wait until we are arrested. Sheesh. I have such a problem with liberal people. They KNOW that they will be forever safe.

Nah, there are fewer of us than there are of you.

 

[abysmul]

Christians in Britain and the US who claim that they are persecuted should "grow up" and not exaggerate what amounts to feeling "mildly uncomfortable", according to Rowan Williams, who last year stepped down as archbishop of Canterbury after an often turbulent decade.

"When you've had any contact with real persecuted minorities you learn to use the word very chastely," he said. "Persecution is not being made to feel mildly uncomfortable. 'For goodness sake, grow up,' I want to say."

True persecution was "systematic brutality and often murderous hostility that means that every morning you wonder if you and your children are going to live through the day". He cited the experience of a woman he met in India "who had seen her husband butchered by a mob".

Rowan Williams tells 'persecuted' western Christians to grow up | UK news | The Guardian

I like Rowan Williams, and just thought this was quite interesting.

I think he makes a pretty spot on point.

 

[mpok1519]

I guess this guy thinks we should wait until we are arrested. Sheesh. I have such a problem with liberal people. They KNOW that they will be forever safe.

It's delusional for one to believe in this country at least, that one is unsafe because of their religion.

 

[BlunderAngel]

Rowan Williams was the Archbishop who at one time said people in Great Britain were going to just have to get use to the idea that Sharia law was an unavoidable eventuality, right? And then he recanted under pressure from his superiors.

Persecution is relative Mr.Williams. Archbishops should not deem it their right to tell others who are persecuted that they're imagining things when their suffering isn't anywhere near on the scale of others being persecuted.

Mind your business in your own backyard. One that has enough trouble with persecution in its own right.

 

[cow451]

It's delusional for one to believe in this country at least, that one is unsafe because of their religion.

Unless you're Muslim.

 

[HannahT]

That is a valid criticism of many on both sides: those who cry "persecution" and those who cry "intolerance" when anyone dares to disagree.

Isn't that the truth.

People wonder WHY there is so much division? There you have it. When you have two sides that refuse to met in the middle? Nothing gets done. Everyone wants to be a victim.

lol you bring that up? They fight about WHOM does it more.

Then they use examples of nuts from both sides, and then tell the world these NUTS represent the other side in its entirety.

I think GROW UP definitely has its place.