[PERMANENTLY CLOSED] Dead children go straight to heaven

[ScottA]

Are you able to see the consequences of such a 'rule', were it to be applicable community-wide rather than just within the 'halls' of this forum? Can this example demonstrate to you why it is vital that there be a clear separation of religious influence from the affairs of a state? What can you imagine would be the fate of 'out of line' people if that were the case? Are you able to see the value of being able to critically analyse any philosophy, even your own?

I was referring to the idea that those who do not believe in the God of the bible, are guests here...and should be more respectful than to assume or attack, ask questions Yes, but anything else No.

 

[SteveB28]

I exist outside of my swimming pool. Does that mean I can't dip my hand into it once and a while?

You exist in a framework that is identical with the one in which your swimming pool does.

But please, continue to interject with ridiculous analogies. It merely serves to cement the "I am so desperate" tag firmly in place.

 

[ScottA]

I exist outside of my swimming pool. Does that mean I can't dip my hand into it once and a while?

And...God...has just such a pool (where time exist, only in the water). Good example!

You exist in a framework that is identical with the one in which your swimming pool does.

Gee... Two dimensions...what a concept! Is that allowed?

 

[SteveB28]

I was referring to the idea that those who do not believe in the God of the bible, are guests here...and should be more respectful than to assume or attack, ask questions Yes, but anything else No.

Wrong. Look under my title. I am a "member" here, just as you are. Your opinions hold no ascendancy over my own or anyone else's. As has been explained to you, this particular forum is one that is available to those who quite clearly have no belief in your particular god, nor your particular interpretation of that god. My very presence indicates that I find your religious claims to be unfounded and therefore open to criticism. And, as you were also advised, if those criticisms are causing you too much pain, if you find that they uncover too much truth for you to contend with, then you should 'get out of the kitchen'.

 

[ScottA]

Wrong. Look under my title. I am a "member" here, just as you are. Your opinions hold no ascendancy over my own or anyone else's. As has been explained to you, this particular forum is one that is available to those who quite clearly have no belief in your particular god, nor your particular interpretation of that god. My very presence indicates that I find your religious claims to be unfounded and therefore open to criticism. And, as you were also advised, if those criticisms are causing you too much pain, if you find that they uncover too much truth for you to contend with, then you should 'get out of the kitchen'.

Huh...guess I never knew you.

 

[SteveB28]

And...God...has just such a pool (where time exist, only in the water). Good example!
Gee... Two dimensions...what a concept! Is that allowed?

Pardon? Was that supposed to make sense?

 

[ScottA]

Pardon? Was that supposed to make sense?

God exists in a timeless/eternal dimension in which He created a dimension of time (two different dimensions).

Being the Creator of the time dimension, God can exist in either dimension, thus the term: omnipresent.

Mankind, however, cannot exist in God's timeless/eternal dimension, without being rised up out of the dimension of time, thus the term: resurrection.

 

[SteveB28]

God exists in a timeless/eternal dimension in which He created a dimension of time (two different dimensions).

Being the Creator of the time dimension, God can exist in either dimension, thus the term: omnipresent.

Mankind, however, cannot exist in God's timeless/eternal dimension, without being rised up out of the dimension of time, thus the term: resurrection.

"Rised up"?? Sure....

Leaving mangled language aside, none of that makes any sense. You are doing what Mr Chriliman and Ms Oncedeceived find convenient - just throw a collection of words at an argument and hope that some of them will 'stick'.

What does it mean for a dimension to be "timeless"? How would we recognise such an environment? What could exist there? What would be possible there? How can any action take place in the absence of time?

This is nothing more than a child's fantasy, wherein anything can be claimed, simply 'because I say so - so there!'

 

[Oncedeceived]

No literal Adam and Eve? No literal global flood killing everyone but those on that unbuildable boat? Those stories are myth?

Where did you get that from what I said?

 

[ScottA]

"Rised up"?? Sure....

Leaving mangled language aside, none of that makes any sense. You are doing what Mr Chriliman and Ms Oncedeceived find convenient - just throw a collection of words at an argument and hope that some of them will 'stick'.

What does it mean for a dimension to be "timeless"? How would we recognise such an environment? What could exist there? What would be possible there? How can any action take place in the absence of time?

This is nothing more than a child's fantasy, wherein anything can be claimed, simply 'because I say so - so there!'

Yes, it makes no sense to those without the knowledge of such an existence, just to those who do.

A timeless dimension would be without time (duh). If you can imagine, a dimension and world that was, or is, or will be...then try to imagine one that "is", that "was", and that "will be" all at once...and there you have it. God defines his timelessness, not as I was, or as I will be, but as "I am." Always, and forever.

More later.

 

[SteveB28]

Yes, it makes no sense to those without the knowledge of such an existence, just to those who do.

And how do you, a mere human being, have "knowledge" of an environment that is "without time"?

You don't. You invent one.

A timeless dimension would be without time (duh). If you can imagine, a dimension and world that was, or is, or will be...then try to imagine one that "is", that "was", and that "will be" all at once...and there you have it. God defines his timelessness, not as I was, or as I will be, but as "I am." Always, and forever.

More later.

The key word being "imagine". I can imagine a world made of candy floss. Doesn't mean that it's real.

 

[ScottA]

How would we recognise such an environment? What could exist there? What would be possible there? How can any action take place in the absence of time?

1. We would recognize the timelessness of the kingdom of God, as you would this world, but perfect and finished. Or in the eternal darkness version (eternal night), we would recognize all the bad that you know...forever. Each day and night, here and now, are examples.
2. Only good could exist in God's kingdom, but only evil would exist in the eternal darkness version.
3. The impossible is possible here by God, but evil cannot exist in His kingdom, so what would be possible in a timeless existence of endless day, is any good thing. Conversely so for eternal night.
4. Contrary to imagination, action is limited here and now, but not so in a timeless existence.

 

[ScottA]

The key word being "imagine".

That's good! "Let us make man in our image-nation." Sound familiar?

I can imagine a world made of candy floss. Doesn't mean that it's real.

Yes, if you were all powerful. But there is only One who is...and He did not imagine it that way.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Scare tactic fail.

Just stating the facts.

 

[SteveB28]

1. We would recognize the timelessness of the kingdom of God, as you would this world, but perfect and finished. Or in the eternal darkness version (eternal night), we would recognize all the bad that you know...forever. Each day and night, here and now, are examples.
2. Only good could exist in God's kingdom, but only evil would exist in the eternal darkness version.
3. The impossible is possible here by God, but evil cannot exist in His kingdom, so what would be possible in a timeless existence of endless day, is any good thing. Conversely so for eternal night.
4. Contrary to imagination, action is limited here and now, but not so in a timeless existence.

Vague, fanciful, unevidenced claims.

That's it?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Do I detect a hysterical edge to this reactionary tirade oncedeceived?

Oncedeceived's sandpit.

Now you have to read, The Better Angel's of Our Nature, a history of violence and humanity, Steven Pinker. But then how could you focus on reading through a 1000 page book such as Angels and engage with it when you are implicitly hostile and prejudiced toward it?

On the Abraham thing. Do you ever read any 'scholarly' books or articles which are not out to verify the Bible, on theology and history? The Christian bookshop is full of such books and no other material, that's all there are.

Pretty violent, the Bible, plenty of the sordid and barbarity is thematic. But them's the times in Mesopotamia going back about 100 thousand years, since the emergence out of Africa and well before. Humans are fascinated with violence. The males, that is.

Impartial scholarship, simply letting the evidence speak, inducing the best account from it, applying methodology to critiquing ancient documents, it's all freely available in books and in articles on the interwebz.

You just have to look for it and access it. But you have to want to and that means wanting to be informed and not misled anymore.

And wanting to mislead and inure whoever else you can.

The faith virus.

You have been brainwashed by your new religion.

 

[Oncedeceived]

You have, in line with those that believe in Bigfoot and alien abductions.

I don't believe you can remember it either.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Tell me, how does one gather an "accurate" view of Christianity?

The Bible is subject to interpretation, from Christian atheism to pantheism/panentheism. You have Christians that accept modern cosmology and evolutionary theory to the YEC crowd that needs virtually all mainstream science to be wrong for their beliefs to be right.

"Christian atheism is a theological position in which the belief in the God of Christianity is rejected or absent but the moral teachings of Jesus are followed."

Christian atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The apostle Paul quotes a pantheist poem about Zeus in Acts 17:28, turning it into a panentheist statement about their "unknown God" when he quotes, "'In him we live and move and have our being' as some of your poets have said."

Panentheism is also a feature of some later Christian thought, particularly in mystical Orthodox Christianity, Catholic philosophy, and process theology. In order to avoid confusion with pantheism some panentheists now use the doublet "unitheism.""

Panentheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To be a Christian one must accept that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and died and rose again for our sins.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Oh yes, thank you for reminding me of the Jesus story. Since he was supposed to be '1/3 god' or 'god in one of 3 forms', or whatever nonsense one prefers, he of course would have very much been "inside time". After all, his entire story is one of existence in this world and his series of purported actions is chronicled in the Bible.This alone demolishes this puerile claim that god exists "outside time".

No, it doesn't.

 

[SteveB28]

No, it doesn't.

Oh, I'm sure it can mean whatever you want it to mean. You can't describe it, you can't show a shred of evidence for it, but I'm sure you can imagine it.

Strange way to gauge reality though.