People good at heart

[Job_38]

It's really a wonder that I haven't dropped all my ideals, because they seem so absurd. Yet I keep them, because in spite of everything I still believe that people are really good at heart. I simply can't build my hopes on a foundation of confusion, misery and death. And yet I think this cruelty will end, and that peace and tranquillity will return again.
- Anne Frank

 

 I find it strange, this being written by a girl who was murdered by one of the most brutal dictatorships our world has seen.

 What do you think? Are people really "good at heart." Are they just being corrupted by their societies and if we can just get the perfect system, then and only then can we achieve world peace.

 

 Eh?

 

[Huldrych]

Today at 10:18 AM Job_38 said this in Post #1

 What do you think? Are people really "good at heart."

I'm of the opinion that people are, by nature, corrupt. You don't have to teach a child to lie. Additionally, the fact that every society has to enforce some form of law, and keep updating those laws, is further testimony that people are not, by nature, "good at heart."

Are they just being corrupted by their societies and if we can just get the perfect system, then and only then can we achieve world peace.

It's nice thinking. Utopianists like Voltaire, Karl Marx & co. liked to envision a perfect system, and have attempted to put it in place, but the end result were atrocities like the Reign of Terror and the wholesale oppression found under the communist regimes.

But the way I see it, there is no "perfect" system we will ever find to achieve world peace. The answer doesn't lie in a system, it lies in God.

jth

 

[foolsparade]

yes, I would tend to believe in what Anne writes. I believe the vast majority of people on earth are "good" at heart. As for world peace, well it may be possible, but this would require a whole new way of thinking. I do not believe that universal love is possible, we haven't been on this earth long enough to work out the bugs.  

 

[repentandbelieve]

It depends on how you define the word "good". Good is a relative term. It depends on what it is compared to.

In worldly terms, there are many good hearted, good natured people,with good morals who try with good intensions to do the right things.

Anne Frank spoke the words of a person with hope. When she said "And yet I think that this cruelty will end, and that peace and tranquility will return again." I believe that she was speaking in regards to World War II coming to an end and peace being restored as it was before the war, not neccesarily total world peace.


I don't believe that perfect world peace will be acheived until Christ comes again.

 

[Eudaimonist]

I think it most accurate to say that people are generally both good and evil at heart in that we are capable of a wide range of emotions, desires, and intents.  Fortunately, we have the power to choose our actions, and the capacity to develop our character for the better.  May we choose wisely.

 

[paulewog]

Nope. People are all sinful. How this whos up varies, and some people ARE born with a "nice" attitude. And of course, what they believe governs their actions, also. But we're all ... totally depraved.

From the very time we're born, look how self-centered we are.

 

[Mother Vashti]

I don't know.

 

[Received]

I do indeed think that people are corrupt, though this corruptness, in light of the love shown to them, is what we must make our judgments on in terms of a person's overall condition, which really isn't possible, in a sense. Being a Christian, I find the list that Paul shakes off concerning the natural, sinful condition in Romans 3 to be something I can agree with, and grieve over all the same, simply because it is so very true. But I think that regardless of our religious standings - or lack there of -, a person is perfectly capable of being good, at least in a societal sense. Quoting Pascal, "All men seek happiness, this is without exception." But, indeed, the means they may seek to fulfill such desires can be quite perverse. We see this in the heart of even a child, whose first words are 'mama' or 'daddy', and the second: 'mine!'

 

[pete5]

If being 'Good in Heart' means a desire to always do what is pleasing for others, then certainly. Many people are good.

If 'Good in Heart' Means a desire to always do what is beneficial, then nobody is 'Good at Heart.'

How can anyone know what is beneficial for even themselves, let alone other people?

It is impossible to know what will actualy, truely and wholely be beneficial.


"Only God is good"
Jesus of Nazarath ~30AD

 

[Mother Vashti]

Isn't the "sinful condition" a struggle between the willing soul and the weak body? Are people, then, mostly corrupt?

 

[pete5]

I think the "saved" condition is a struggle between the willing soul and the weak body.

The sinful condition is to not know God, not know true Love, and not know true Good (God is love, and only God is good)

 

[Annabel Lee]

12th April 2003 at 11:18 AM Job_38 said this in Post #1

It's really a wonder that I haven't dropped all my ideals, because they seem so absurd. Yet I keep them, because in spite of everything I still believe that people are really good at heart. I simply can't build my hopes on a foundation of confusion, misery and death. And yet I think this cruelty will end, and that peace and tranquillity will return again.
- Anne Frank

 

 I find it strange, this being written by a girl who was murdered by one of the most brutal dictatorships our world has seen.

 What do you think? Are people really "good at heart." Are they just being corrupted by their societies and if we can just get the perfect system, then and only then can we achieve world peace.

 

 Eh?

Yes, I think Anne in all her childlike innocence, got it right.
We are capable of so much more. Given time I think we can acheive the perfect society where true goodness can prevail.

Of course, we may destroy ourselves before that happens.
Keep your fingers crossed.

 

[paulewog]

Wanna know the real depths of the human deceitfulness and evil?

Christ's second coming. Satan is "bound" ... completely taken out of the picture. The world is started over with CHRIST ruling with a "rod of iron," and the whole world will be saved at that time. All Christians.

What happens at the end of 1000 years? Satan is released, and those that have been rebelling, even in a PERFECT society, no devil, and utter propsierty and perfection in the world.... what happens? Satan comes back and incites a rebellion. Or rather, people who have been rebelling inwardly welcome the chance to follow Satan and rebel outwardly.

So.... apparently, even in perfect conditions - perfect world, society, king, ruler, no devil, and Christian families - people still rebel.

What was that about being "good at heart" ?

 

[Annabel Lee]

Today at 12:24 PM paulewog said this in Post #13

Wanna know the real depths of the human deceitfulness and evil?

Christ's second coming. Satan is "bound" ... completely taken out of the picture. The world is started over with CHRIST ruling with a "rod of iron," and the whole world will be saved at that time. All Christians.

What happens at the end of 1000 years? Satan is released, and those that have been rebelling, even in a PERFECT society, no devil, and utter propsierty and perfection in the world.... what happens? Satan comes back and incites a rebellion. Or rather, people who have been rebelling inwardly welcome the chance to follow Satan and rebel outwardly.

So.... apparently, even in perfect conditions - perfect world, society, king, ruler, no devil, and Christian families - people still rebel.

What was that about being "good at heart" ?

I'm not going to argue against the "All Humans are Depraved' viewpoint.

I don't believe it. I prefer to have hope.

 

[rnmomof7]

12th April 2003 at 11:08 PM foolsparade said this in Post #3

yes, I would tend to believe in what Anne writes. I believe the vast majority of people on earth are "good" at heart.

That is not what scripture teaches..

Gen 6:5__ And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.

Jer 17:9The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?


Ecc 9:3__ This [is] an evil among all [things] that are done under the sun, that [there is] one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness [is] in their heart while they live, and after that [they go] to the dead.


That is why Jesus said we need a new heart

 

[rnmomof7]

12th April 2003 at 11:17 PM repentandbelieve said this in Post #4

It depends on how you define the word "good". Good is a relative term. It depends on what it is compared to.

In worldly terms, there are many good hearted, good natured people,with good morals who try with good intensions to do the right things.

Anne Frank spoke the words of a person with hope. When she said "And yet I think that this cruelty will end, and that peace and tranquility will return again." I believe that she was speaking in regards to World War II coming to an end and peace being restored as it was before the war, not neccesarily total world peace.


I don't believe that perfect world peace will be acheived until Christ comes again.

Exactly!! Men compare themselves to other men..That is why so many think they are "good " enough to get into heaven..after all we are not Hitler and we are not eating our neighbor..By that comparison most men are saints.
We do not see ourselves as God sees us
Untill God revels himself to us ..and we then compare ourselves to a Holy God..

As it says in Romans we gasp and cover our mouth in shock and shame ..and the we know we are truely sinners in need of a Holy Savior!

 

[rnmomof7]

Today at 03:45 PM Annabel Lee said this in Post #14



I'm not going to argue against the "All Humans are Depraved' viewpoint.

I don't believe it. I prefer to have hope.

I have a hope and that hope is the imputed righteousness of jesus chrsit

In me no good thing dwells

I say with St. Paul

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[ZiSunka]

People are people, and some are good at heart and some are bad. We all make our own choices about how to live, and some choose healthy, good ways of living and some choose other ways. It's up to every person.

 

[rnmomof7]

Today at 04:27 PM lambslove said this in Post #18

People are people, and some are good at heart and some are bad. We all make our own choices about how to live, and some choose healthy, good ways of living and some choose other ways. It's up to every person.

That is not what the bible says..

_ Rom 3:10__ As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
__
_ Rom 3:11__ There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
__
_ Rom 3:12__ They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.


Unsaved men do indeed choose , but they do not choose between GOOD and EVIL they choose between Evil and very evil..

Once again we are grading on a human curve not Gods

 

[ZiSunka]

Depends on what is meant by "good at heart" I guess. I thought it meant, "tending to want to do good more often than to do evil."