PENTECOSTALISM VS INTELLECTUAL CHRISTIANITY

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Anyone who claims to have spoken in tongues can answer.

I have spoken languages that God understands. Anyone else's opinion is inconsequential to me and what I speak to God is none of their business.

 

[Skidder]

You're right. It's not encrypted. If you are speaking a language that nobody understands you aren't edifying anyone. It's the beginning of a treatise on what the purpose was for this gift.

Again, what does it say? what part of "does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him" don't you understand???? And Paul goes on to clearly say there are different kinds of tongues. There is a tongue that edifies the church if there is an interpretation. If there is not, that speaker should remain silent IN THE CHURCH MEETING. And there is also another kind of tongues used as a sign for unbelievers, like the one in the book Acts where they heard their own language. And that is why Paul gives this reference to that kind of tongues

In the law it is written:
“With men of other tongues and other lips
I will speak to this people;
And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me,”

But even so he encourages the practice. But out loud in the church it needs to be done in a fit and orderly fashion

1 Corinthians 14:5
I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

What part of church receiving edification don't you understand?

1 Corinthians 14:2
For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.

THEREFORE IF THE WHOLE CHURCH COMES TOGETHER IN ONE PLACE, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind?

What part of when the WHOLE CHURCH COMES TOGETHER don't you understand?

Here he is referring to out loud in the church. It is unfruitful to listeners if there is no interpretation OUT LOUD IN THE CHURCH MEETING! This is so OBVIOUS, but you don't want the simplicity of what it says because it offends your carnal intellect.

How is it then, brethren? WHENEVER YOU COME TOGETHER, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.

Did you catch that?

But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.

Speaking in tongues out loud IN THE CHURCH is encouraged if there is an INTERPRETATION. And if he does not have an interpretation of tongues he should do it private unto HIMSELF AND GOD. And this takes us back to the verse that you keep struggling with. "For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God"

Nowhere does it say you can't use your gift of tongues in private with God, in fact, these verses I just posted encourage the practice. And that is why it also says... "He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself"

What part of edifying himself don't you understand?

But in the church meeting everything should be done in a fit and orderly fashion...

Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and DO NOT FORBID TO SPEAK IN TONGUES. Let all things be done decently and in order.

The only ground you have to stand on is your hatred for this gift. Because the OBVIOUS TRUTH is right in front of you, JUST OPEN YOUR BIBLE AND READ IT THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN!

But I surely doubt a hatred such as yours would ever allow such a simplicity.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

It doesn't take brains to figure out today's claims to the spiritual gifts are fraudulent. If the Apostles were here, they would be headline news every night.

This is just a thought to ponder...
If 120 disciples spoke in tongues on the day of Pentecost, and just 12 of them were the Apostles of Christ, and if tongues and prophecy were Apostolic sign gifts as some have taught, then how come the other 108 spoke in tongues, including Mary the mother of Jesus, and the other women associated with the disciples (possibly Mary Magdalene, Mary and Martha, and other women, as well as Lazarus, Zacchaeus, and others)?

Also, the household of Cornelius, the 12 disciples at Ephesus, and hundreds of Samaritans when Peter and John laid hands on them?

Wouldn't that cause the teaching that tongues and prophecy were gifts limited to the Apostles, to go down in flames like the Hindenberg?

Pentecostals may not be the only ones who leave their brains at home when they go to church!

 

[Al Touthentop]

I have spoken languages that God understands. Anyone else's opinion is inconsequential to me and what I speak to God is none of their business.

Did you understand it?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Video from my church after which I left blessed!

There is a problem with the speaking of tongues in public if they are not interpreted. Paul, teaching through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit told the Corinthians not to do it. The Holy Spirit does not contradict Himself. He is not going to say through Paul not to speak in tongues without interpretation in public meetings, and then inspire others to speak in tongues in the same manner in other churches.

Therefore, those who are speaking in tongues contrary to Paul's inspired teaching, may not be doing it in the Spirit, because the Spirit will not go against His own inspired word through Paul.

 

[Albion]

Therefore, those who are speaking in tongues contrary to Paul's inspired teaching, may not be doing it in the Spirit, because the Spirit will not go against His own inspired word through Paul.

But I'll bet that those people insist that God understands exactly what they are mouthing and approves of it. They also probably think that kind of reply settles everything.

 

[Al Touthentop]

This is just a thought to ponder...
If 120 disciples spoke in tongues on the day of Pentecost

The text does not indicate that 120 did this on the day of Pentecost. That it doesn't say this isn't an indication that others later did not, we know others did from Paul's letter to the Corinthians and from other accounts.

and just 12 of them were the Apostles of Christ, and if tongues and prophecy were Apostolic sign gifts as some have taught, then how come the other 108 spoke in tongues, including Mary the mother of Jesus, and the other women associated with the disciples (possibly Mary Magdalene, Mary and Martha, and other women, as well as Lazarus, Zacchaeus, and others)?

The question assumes that 120 were speaking in tongues on the day of Pentecost. It was only 12.

Also, the household of Cornelius, the 12 disciples at Ephesus, and hundreds of Samaritans when Peter and John laid hands on them?
....
Wouldn't that cause the teaching that tongues and prophecy were gifts limited to the Apostles, to go down in flames like the Hindenberg?

This is what is called a straw man argument. To say that only 12 were speaking in tongues on the day of Pentecost, is not to say that the gift was limited to the apostles. If somebody teaches that only the apostles spoke in tongues, they are mistaken as is obvious from the scriptures.

Pentecostals may not be the only ones who leave their brains at home when they go to church!

Absolutely true.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. - 1 Corinthians 14:39

What part of “forbid not” do you not understand? And most anti-Pentecostal sermons talk on the superiority of a love that they themselves do not have.

My problem with the video is that the tongues being spoken are a public display, and Paul taught that if there is no interpretation, and the person should speak to himself and to God. I think it is a misuse of tongues to put them in the public domain like that. I am not forbidding people to speak in tongues, but they have to do it in the correct manner as Paul taught it should be.

 

[Swan7]

While I do agree with you on much of this as well as your intent for young Christians. Your post reflects Christ, I am just unsure of the following accusation:

John MacArthur. He has removed scriptures from 1 Corinthians and proclaims the church in Corinth were speaking a demonic tongues. Another heresy to go with His “Lordship Salvation”.

Is there a link to this? I cannot find this specific information about him.

So let us not be unaware of His schemes, but let us walk in a GRACE that is SUFFICIENT and always test the spirits!!.

1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Amen.

We also should not be so accusatory of specific persons because Christ died for all. I consider John MacAuthur to be a brother in Christ (so long as he still has the core message), he might be misguided - and if that is so, is up to us to correct him in love: Matthew 5:21-26
As the passage says, we cannot change anyone's mind as they have to be willing to rethink a position, but we can indeed warn or correct them.

Again, I absolutely see what you are doing is out of love for the young Christians - and as close to scriptures as possible. However, what I see is a trap many fall into as well when pointing out specific persons instead of the actions of them. It's fine to expose those actions, but not to point them out by their name because, for all we know, said persons might change their mind later. Do you see what I mean here?
Even Christ divided humans from sin, He divides His Word Righteously: Hebrews 4:12 - as so we should also: 2 Timothy 2:15

Love is forgiving and does not remember wrongdoings: 1 Corinthians 13:5

 

[dqhall]

PENTECOSTALISM VS INTELLECTUAL CHRISTIANITY

1 Corinthians 14:1-5
Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

This portion of scripture is full of POWER and LIFE. The western church today is so inflamed with division that many fail to gravitate to passages such as these. THIS POWER of the Holy Spirit to the body of Christ is limited on two major fronts…. 1) Pentecostalism, 2) Intellectual Christianity

1) Pentecostalism has poisoned the watering hole in several ways: CHAOS is the opposite of ORDER! Paul lays out strict guidelines on how these gifts are to be administered in the church, and he goes on to say that failure to do so will have costly effects…

“Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind?”-1 Corinthians 14:23

And this is not what what many in the Pentecostal church have enforced, on the contrary, the very opposite. They believe they have something the other churches don’t so they pursue reckless abandonment in the name of “holiness”. Because of their lack of discernment and their gratifications of the flesh much of the simplicity that is in Christ will remain hidden from them. Their glorification of themselves over Christ is the very opposite of what these gifts of the Holy Spirit were intended to do, and that is to bring glory to Christ that we may walk by faith in Him.

2) Intellectual Christianity is just as deadly as Pentecostalism. The wisdom and power of God is foolishness to men. These are the ones who rise above spiritual gifts in the name of “intellect”. The supernatural is not necessary for their knowledge of scripture has already superseded any need of revelation and dependency on His Spirit . And they are quick to use the chaos of the Pentecostals to denounce these scriptures. Like little spiritual Einsteins they have calculated the Grace of God to a manageable formula. They treat prophecy with contempt, and thus quench the Spirit’s fire. One of their leaders on the forefront is John MacArthur. He has removed scriptures from 1 Corinthians and proclaims the church in Corinth were speaking a demonic tongues. Another heresy to go with His “Lordship Salvation”. Again, the simplicity that is in Christ will remain hidden in the absence of the truth. If we neglect scriptures such as these we neglect the Lord Jesus Christ Himself for HE IS THE WORD!!

Conclusion:
“Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts”!! That about says it all!! And one more thing before I conclude this presentation... and that is to always be on your guard for the subtleties of our enemy. These divisions are not apart from his influence. He was a liar from the beginning and he knows that divisions such as these will limit the effectiveness of the church. So let us not be unaware of His schemes, but let us walk in a GRACE that is SUFFICIENT and always test the spirits!!.

1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

I’m not a Pentecostal and I’m too stupid to be an intellectual, just a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ who speaks in tongues. So many Christians who speak in tongues are afraid to address the John MacArthurs of this world for fear they may be looked down upon, but we are not of those who drag our fear around like a blanket!! NO!! We are of those who were purchased by the PRECIOUS BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST!!

Grace and Peace…..

According to scripture Paul spoke Greek and Hebrew. He may have spoken Aramaic as it was spoken in Israel during Roman times. I am not sure if he knew Latin or other languages.

Prophesy is God given information. Paul wrote, “For we know in part and we prophesy in part.” 1 Corinthians 13:9.

Is knowledge and prophesy intellect? Is it wisdom?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

1. That any display of garbled speech or a series of one-syllable sounds IS, in truth, "to speak in tongues."

As you know, any such outburst is routinely defended as genuine by Pentecostals as though there are no people trying artificially to make sounds that they think might be a gift. And that's to say nothing of downright phonies, who do exist.

2. That being unable to speak in tongues must mean that someone has forbidden to speak in tongues. It doesn't.

Those who genuinely pray in tongues according to Paul's teaching are never heard in any public meeting. Anyone speaking out in tongues is using the ministry gift of tongues and is expecting that it will be interpreted and prepared to give an interpretation if no one else comes forward. Speaking out in tongues for interpretation is a deliberate act of faith in the leading of the Spirit to enable an interpretation to encourage and build up the other members of the congregation.

Genuine tongues is never haphazard gibberish, either in private or public. Tongues in the flesh are, and should be recognised as such and it is a shame that many Charismatics don't know the difference. They make the mistake of thinking that the Holy Spirit will lead people in ways that overrule the written Word, whereas in reality, He will never overrule the very Word that He Himself inspired! This is why we hear tongues in meetings that have a haphazard nature because much of it is in the flesh and not the Spirit, bringing the manifestation of the Holy Spirit into disrepute and spooking good people away from a faculty that could bring them blessing and power in their personal prayer lives.

 

[Albion]

Genuine tongues is never haphazard gibberish, either in private or public.

Well, what is accomplished by saying that? Everybody who babbles meaningless sounds says that they are genuine. That doesn't make them be such!

And every Pentecostal posting online seems determined never to admit that there can even be such a thing as a person making sounds that are NOT actually genuine tongues-speaking.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I miss my old Pentecostal Holiness pastor...

1. Very disciplined guy - Up at 6AM every morning
2. Rejoiced in what he called being a Pentecostal Holiness country preacher
3. Revivals - At least one every two months - All with unique and good evangelists
4. Would let the Holy Spirit have his way in service
5. Take time to pray for the sick at church and in the hospitals. Carried a bottle of anointing oil with him
6. Was a friendly guy and would come visit you
7. Loved God and very Christlike.
8. A great, loving, and supportive family man as well

Our new pastor has been there a little over a year. He thinks he has arrived with his Masters degree at Liberty University. We have very few communion services and no revivals. The church attendance is way down and they struggle to find people to play the piano. Just last week he was preaching on the following topic...

And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son. - 2 Kings 6:28-29

And as he preaching on this, talking about how planes have crashed in the mountains where "who to eat" was the option for survival. And how you would never know that we may have that option as well. I thought to myself while he was preaching how long I would hang around with that group before I would run for my life! It was all I could do to tuck my bible under my arm and leave that place in great haste.

My dad is elderly and I like to take him to church dinners that some have for the public. I find so many churches these days merging. The old faithful WW2 generation preacher retired after many years and the new guy just doesn't have it. So the solution is to close the church and merge with another.

In so many camp meetings I used to go to they used to have ministers who would reach out and touch the hearts of the congregation. Most of them were in a life deep in sin and came out of it similarly as the Apostle Paul. The fact that they were uneducated and up there preaching eloquently was a miracle in itself. It was fun going to church as you would not know what the next service was going to be like.

Now we have preachers trying to conduct camp meeting with Doctorate Degrees. The deliveries are dry and if anyone goes to the altar after the message he is most of the times there by himself.

My old Pentecostal Holiness pastor was the same, and his teaching concerning the Holy Spirit has passed the test of time since 1970 when I first joined his church.

I have a M.A. and a M.Div. and although gaining those degrees were great journeys for me, seeing that I was a high school dropout, they are just bits of paper on the wall for me and haven't improved on what I learned from my old pastor.

All that academic theology or divinity study does is to instill discipline to get a systematic foundation in God's Word (depending on the type of Bible College), but it doesn't cause a person to be more effective in the ministry of the gospel or the Spirit than someone who has no academic degrees.

I love the idea (I haven't done it yet) of encountering a guy who thinks his poop doesn't stink (spiritually) because he has a doctorate and looks down on those who don't appear as spiritual as he is. I don't look and behave like someone who has two Mastorates, and I deliberately make sure I keep it that way. So if some peacock looks down his nose at me thinking I am an uneducated Philistine, I would enjoy telling him that those who think they are holier and more intelligent than me are usually taller than me, and when I look up at them it gives me a pain in the neck!! Then I tell them that I have two Mastorates just to p/i/s/s them off to realise that they are speaking to a highly educated person whom they have misjudged by my appearance!!

 

[Albion]

I don't look and behave like someone who has two Mastorates, and I deliberately make sure I keep it that way. So if some peacock looks down his nose at me thinking I am an uneducated Philistone, I would enjoy telling him that those who think they are holier and more intelligent than me are usually taller than me, and when I look up at them it gives me a pain in the neck!! Then I tell them that I have two Mastorates just to p/i/s/s them off to realise that they are speaking to a highly educated person whom they have misjudged by my appearance!!

I remember the previous several times the above was posted or something close to it. I've never before met someone who holds two Master's Degrees...and refers to them as "Mastorates." Must be a particularly Australian/New Zealander thing.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The text does not indicate that 120 did this on the day of Pentecost. That it doesn't say this isn't an indication that others later did not, we know others did from Paul's letter to the Corinthians and from other accounts.
The question assumes that 120 were speaking in tongues on the day of Pentecost. It was only 12.

The text does say that there were 120 in the room waiting on God as Jesus instructed them.

This is what is called a straw man argument. To say that only 12 were speaking in tongues on the day of Pentecost, is not to say that the gift was limited to the apostles. If somebody teaches that only the apostles spoke in tongues, they are mistaken as is obvious from the scriptures.

The majority of sound Bible commentators agree that there were 120 in the room when the Holy Spirit came and filled them. If the text says that there were 120, including Mary the mother of Jesus and other women, in that room, and then saying that on the day of Pentecost they were all in one accord, and the Holy Spirit fell on them, then to say that 108 of them left the room at some stage is saying something that the text does not say. Jesus told the disciples to tarry in Jerusalem until they are endued with power from on high, and so the disciples would have passed that instruction along, 120 believers would have joined the 12 disciples in the room to wait until the power came. We must be careful to either add or take away from the Scripture, or to read something in just to satisfy a prejudicial theological view.

The notion that there were just 12 in that room, is a favourite one of the Cessationists who try to teach us that only the 12 Apostles received the gift of tongues as an Apostolic sign gift that ceased after the last Apostle died. Cessationism is a total fabrication and an invention by some mad monk who first promulgated it around the 6th Century A.D.

 

[klutedavid]

I miss my old Pentecostal Holiness pastor...

1. Very disciplined guy - Up at 6AM every morning
2. Rejoiced in what he called being a Pentecostal Holiness country preacher
3. Revivals - At least one every two months - All with unique and good evangelists
4. Would let the Holy Spirit have his way in service
5. Take time to pray for the sick at church and in the hospitals. Carried a bottle of anointing oil with him
6. Was a friendly guy and would come visit you
7. Loved God and very Christlike.
8. A great, loving, and supportive family man as well

Our new pastor has been there a little over a year. He thinks he has arrived with his Masters degree at Liberty University. We have very few communion services and no revivals. The church attendance is way down and they struggle to find people to play the piano. Just last week he was preaching on the following topic...

And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son. - 2 Kings 6:28-29

And as he preaching on this, talking about how planes have crashed in the mountains where "who to eat" was the option for survival. And how you would never know that we may have that option as well. I thought to myself while he was preaching how long I would hang around with that group before I would run for my life! It was all I could do to tuck my bible under my arm and leave that place in great haste.

My dad is elderly and I like to take him to church dinners that some have for the public. I find so many churches these days merging. The old faithful WW2 generation preacher retired after many years and the new guy just doesn't have it. So the solution is to close the church and merge with another.

In so many camp meetings I used to go to they used to have ministers who would reach out and touch the hearts of the congregation. Most of them were in a life deep in sin and came out of it similarly as the Apostle Paul. The fact that they were uneducated and up there preaching eloquently was a miracle in itself. It was fun going to church as you would not know what the next service was going to be like.

Now we have preachers trying to conduct camp meeting with Doctorate Degrees. The deliveries are dry and if anyone goes to the altar after the message he is most of the times there by himself.

This was an important point in your list.

4. Would let the Holy Spirit have his way in service

You were very fortunate to have such a pastor.

 

[Al Touthentop]

Again, what does it say? what part of "does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him" don't you understand???? And Paul goes on to clearly say there are different kinds of tongues. There is a tongue that edifies the church if there is an interpretation. If there is not, that speaker should remain silent IN THE CHURCH MEETING. And there is also another kind of tongues used as a sign for unbelievers, like the one in the book Acts where they heard their own language. And that is why Paul gives this reference to that kind of tongues

Paul is explaining not that there is a distinction to be made in the "tongue" or "gift" but in its application or use.

Try this and see if it makes sense:

"does not speak to men but to God, for (BECAUSE ) no one understands him"

Paul was explaining why speaking in tongues was useless unless there was someone there to understand what was being said. It had NO BENEFIT. You're just "speaking to God." And if the gift is for the unbeliever, do you think Paul therefore concluded that speaking in tongues to God was beneficial because God needed to be convinced of something? Odd, when put in context with what else he said don't you think? That absurdity, that one would use a gift of God to speak only to God, is what Paul is trying to convey here.

But even so he encourages the practice. But out loud in the church it needs to be done in a fit and orderly fashion

Yes, because the practice is for unbelievers. So, for the unbeliever to get a benefit, he has to understand what is being said. Thus the need for an interpreter at the very least. Not only were they speaking in languages that nobody could understand, they were talking over others who were speaking at the same time. It was chaos. It needed to be ordered and in a way that people could understand. The way that they were worshiping provided no "edification" or benefit to the church.

1 Corinthians 14:5
I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

What part of church receiving edification don't you understand?

What do you think I am not understanding?

1 Corinthians 14:2
For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

So...Paul says, it is useless if no one understands he who speaks in tongues. At the same time, he is careful to make them understand that the gift is sacred and that its purpose is to reveal mystery. If it is only being spoken to the person who provided the revelation, it is being wasted.

Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.

So, even when doing this alone, there is no benefit since I myself have gained no understanding.

15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.

So, I will pray with the spirit but in my own language so that I get understanding. I will sing with the spirit in my own language and I will also sing with the understanding (so that others in the church are edified). Understanding I would not have had were I to pray or sing in another language that none of us understands.

THEREFORE IF THE WHOLE CHURCH COMES TOGETHER IN ONE PLACE, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind?

Therefore if you're all together speaking in tongues and in chaos, and somebody comes in who doesn't speak the languages you're speaking, and sees you doing this in chaos, will they not say you are out of your mind?

What part of when the WHOLE CHURCH COMES TOGETHER don't you understand?

I think I understand. What am I missing do you think?

Here he is referring to out loud in the church. It is unfruitful to listeners if there is no interpretation OUT LOUD IN THE CHURCH MEETING! This is so OBVIOUS, but you don't want the simplicity of what it says because it offends your carnal intellect.

Yet he also says that no benefit is obtained when you do it alone by yourself. The purpose of speaking in tongues was for the unbeliever not the believer.

Nowhere does it say you can't use your gift of tongues in private with God, in fact, these verses I just posted encourage the practice.

For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.

I would say this is a pretty good argument against the practice of speaking in tongues unless it has a benefit to the listener, even if that listener is yourself. You're not hearing anything that brings new understanding.

What part of edifying himself don't you understand?

A person who edifies himself is not a benefit to the congregation. That's the point of this treatise. Don't do things which are only intended to make you feel special. Your purpose in the church is to edify the church, not yourself.

Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and DO NOT FORBID TO SPEAK IN TONGUES. Let all things be done decently and in order.

Right. Don't be afraid to use this gift if it edifies the church and brings believers to repentance, the purpose of the gift. It's an amazing gift when it is used in the proper way.

The only ground you have to stand on is your hatred for this gift. Because the OBVIOUS TRUTH is right in front of you, JUST OPEN YOUR BIBLE AND READ IT THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN!

Can you quote a single place where I've indicated I "hate" the gift of tongues?

But I surely doubt a hatred such as yours would ever allow such a simplicity.

The only thing I hate is teaching that is contradictory to scripture.

 

[klutedavid]

scripture?

1 Corinthians 13:1
If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Well, what is accomplished by saying that? Everybody who babbles meaningless sounds says that they are genuine. That doesn't make them be such!

And every Pentecostal posting online seems determined never to admit that there can even be such a thing as a person making sounds that are NOT actually genuine tongues-speaking.

I don't babble! Especially in public! When I am alone with God, I deliberately and cold-bloodedly speak an articulate, expressive language that expresses my heart to God when I can't find the English to express it. I get a clear witness in my spirit that God understands and appreciates what I am saying. As a result, things happen after that that shows me that God is arranging my affairs in ways that I could not predict or imagine.

I remember praying in tongues for a women who was in a London hospital with an out of control stomach hemorrhage and her life was in danger. I asked God to guide my tongue for intercession for her. The language that came out was totally different to my normal one, and it was very intense for around 20 minutes. Then it stopped, and I have never spoken that particular language since. I heard the next day from the woman's son, that the bleeding suddenly stopped around the time I was interceding.

I never felt any sensory emotion during that time of intercession, except the language flowed out of me so intensely that after the 20 minutes I felt totally drained. I needed a good strong cup of coffee after that!

 

[Albion]

I don't babble! Especially in public!

I didn't say that you do, Oscarr.

But to talk as if no one else ever does so is mystifying. Why do Pentecostals feel that in order to defend or justify their kind of Christianity, they must deny that there are any abuses or even mistakes on the part of even a single other Pentecostal Christian!? That there are no cases of sounds that are not genuine, not what the Bible was describing? Frankly, it doesn't seem to make sense.

When I am alone with God, I deliberately and cold-bloodedly speak an articulate, expressive language that expresses my heart to God when I can't find the English to express it. I get a clear witness in my spirit that God understands and appreciates what I am saying.

You have no way of knowing if that is true, you know. Not unless you are saying that whatever is uttered with sincerity doesn't really matter because God knows the heart of each of us.