PENTECOSTALISM VS INTELLECTUAL CHRISTIANITY

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NBB

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John Mcarthur doesn't know what he talks about, saying all pentecostals are bad, if they were that bad, i wouldn't have received the Holy spirit in a pentecostal church, that made my belief in God go from barely believing in a cold far away God, to firmly believing for life in a God that can interact with us, is close to us and we can be sure he exists.
 
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NBB

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He talks that pentecostal are the most growing denomination in later years, saying like it if that it is a bad thing etc, also he throws all pentecostal on the same bag saying all manifestation there are not from the Holy spirit, never once i listened from him, saying that this was just one 'type' of 'derailed' pentecostals, and there is some true manifestation in pentecostal churches, he makes no distinction, he says they are attributing the work of satan to works of the Holy spirit which if you understand correctly is the same as attributing the works of the Holy spirit to satan, and all this i listened from himself in videos saying this... actually listening to Mcartur saying things like this dries my soul.
 
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Saint Steven

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What languages have you spoken as directed by the Holy Spirit?
They don't come with handy labels. That's not how it works.
I suppose you are trying to make the point that they MUST be KNOWN languages.

Those who DON'T speak in tongues LOVE to tell those who do HOW it should be done.
Thus revealing their ignorance of such things.
 
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PENTECOSTALISM VS INTELLECTUAL CHRISTIANITY

1 Corinthians 14:1-5
Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

This portion of scripture is full of POWER and LIFE. The western church today is so inflamed with division that many fail to gravitate to passages such as these. THIS POWER of the Holy Spirit to the body of Christ is limited on two major fronts…. 1) Pentecostalism, 2) Intellectual Christianity

1) Pentecostalism has poisoned the watering hole in several ways: CHAOS is the opposite of ORDER! Paul lays out strict guidelines on how these gifts are to be administered in the church, and he goes on to say that failure to do so will have costly effects…

“Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind?”-1 Corinthians 14:23

And this is not what what many in the Pentecostal church have enforced, on the contrary, the very opposite. They believe they have something the other churches don’t so they pursue reckless abandonment in the name of “holiness”. Because of their lack of discernment and their gratifications of the flesh much of the simplicity that is in Christ will remain hidden from them. Their glorification of themselves over Christ is the very opposite of what these gifts of the Holy Spirit were intended to do, and that is to bring glory to Christ that we may walk by faith in Him.

2) Intellectual Christianity is just as deadly as Pentecostalism. The wisdom and power of God is foolishness to men. These are the ones who rise above spiritual gifts in the name of “intellect”. The supernatural is not necessary for their knowledge of scripture has already superseded any need of revelation and dependency on His Spirit . And they are quick to use the chaos of the Pentecostals to denounce these scriptures. Like little spiritual Einsteins they have calculated the Grace of God to a manageable formula. They treat prophecy with contempt, and thus quench the Spirit’s fire. One of their leaders on the forefront is John MacArthur. He has removed scriptures from 1 Corinthians and proclaims the church in Corinth were speaking a demonic tongues. Another heresy to go with His “Lordship Salvation”. Again, the simplicity that is in Christ will remain hidden in the absence of the truth. If we neglect scriptures such as these we neglect the Lord Jesus Christ Himself for HE IS THE WORD!!

Conclusion:
“Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts”!! That about says it all!! And one more thing before I conclude this presentation... and that is to always be on your guard for the subtleties of our enemy. These divisions are not apart from his influence. He was a liar from the beginning and he knows that divisions such as these will limit the effectiveness of the church. So let us not be unaware of His schemes, but let us walk in a GRACE that is SUFFICIENT and always test the spirits!!.

1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

I’m not a Pentecostal and I’m too stupid to be an intellectual, just a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ who speaks in tongues. So many Christians who speak in tongues are afraid to address the John MacArthurs of this world for fear they may be looked down upon, but we are not of those who drag our fear around like a blanket!! NO!! We are of those who were purchased by the PRECIOUS BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST!!

Grace and Peace…..
The church has fallen for the pendulum trap. One extreme or the other. Both are wrong. What most Christians lack is Life. Most Christians live either from their minds- intellectuals - or emotions - Pentecostals. One worships the written word of God, the other worships feelings. Both are inclined to consider the other inferior Christians.

What do I mean by life? It is the uncreated life that makes God who He is. That is the Life that was available in the Tree of Life in Eden. That is the Life that Jesus came to give us. Adam was alive, but in his soul. His spirit was empty. God's intent was that Adam should choose to be completed with the Life in the Tree of Life. Adam chose to be completed by the Tree of Knowledge. As warned by God, the fruit of that tree of knowledge was spiritual death to Adam. It is still spiritual death, even to believers.
Death is not the end of existence, obviously. It is separation from God.

Those who choose to live by knowledge may be fine, upstanding, moral and holy people. Yet there is something missing. It is the Life of Christ that they lack. It's there, if they are born again. But they are choosing to live by what God rejects. Emotionalism is even worse. It is way too easy to be deceived. If it feels good, it must be good, right? Wrong. Lying signs and wonders may well be accompanied by feelings of elation, warmth, hair standing up or visible halos. Not all of such manifestations are demonic. But the emotionalists have no discernment.

We must come to know Christ as "The Life" as well as "The Way" and the "Truth". If you doubt me, ask yourself how often you've heard "Christ the Life" preached. in 48 years, I've heard it just a few times and not from mainstream denominations.
 
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His student

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....People who spoke in tongues (spoke decipherable words in a foreign language) were able to communicate the gospel in languages they had never learned before to people who spoke those languages.
That is merely an assumption.

The scripture doesn't say that about tongues in the church or in private communications between the speaker and God or even in the incident that occurred at Pentecost which is so often cited from your belief position.

Please don't go beyond what is written.
What languages have you spoken as directed by the Holy Spirit?.........Anyone who claims to have spoken in tongues can answer.
Thank you for the permission to answer.

Whatever the Holy Spirit gave to me - which I believed and received by faith. I don't know any more about it than that because I have never received a message for the church in general and I have never received an interpretation of my tongues or had an interpreter interpret it for me or the church at large.
 
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Kenny'sID

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If some of you want to show off your gift of tongues, then also show off your raising of the dead, and your verifiable healing.

When we stick with only those gifts that cannot be proven, and no one seems to be able to do those that can, then I smell a rat. Even tongues can be proven wrong with an interpreter, but it just so happens no one does that type, just the type that only God can understand. Imagine that? :)

One would think that those who belong to the churches that love to pretend (the fakes/abusers of the idea of gifts for profit that the OP mentioned) to show how holy they are with a bunch of pure gibberish, rolling on the floor, and molesting the congregation with their suit coat, would figure it out for themselves something is wrong, just due to the outrageousness of it all, not to mention the above, very sensible clues. But they don't....amazingly.


But as long as people are after something that seems extra ordinary, something a preacher can sell to those whom are not satisfied with a humble true form of Christianity that doesn't try to show off their power, and feel they have to make God more exiting in order to draw their attention, these things will flourish.
 
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NBB

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If some of you want to show off your gift of tongues, then also show off your raising of the dead, and your verifiable healing.

When we stick with only those gifts that cannot be proven, and no one seems to be able to do those that can, then I smell a rat. Even tongues can be proven wrong with an interpreter, but it just so happens no one does that type, just the type that only God can understand. Imagine that? :)

One would think that those who belong to the churches that love to pretend (the fakes/abusers of the idea of gifts for profit that the OP mentioned) to show how holy they are with a bunch of pure gibberish, rolling on the floor, and molesting the congregation with their suit coat, would figure it out for themselves something is wrong, just due to the outrageousness of it all, not to mention the above, very sensible clues. But they don't....amazingly.


But as long as people are after something that seems extra ordinary, something a preacher can sell to those whom are not satisfied with a humble true form of Christianity that doesn't try to show off their power, and feel they have to make God more exiting in order to draw their attention, these things will flourish.

Some people just like to see God do stuff, anything, i mean having thirst for God, can be having thirst of God doing things, if God does nothing in your life, then something is wrong i say. And this does not mean all people believe the first thing that crosses them as being from God.
 
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Kenny'sID

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They don't come with handy labels. That's not how it works.
I suppose you are trying to make the point that they MUST be KNOWN languages.

Those who DON'T speak in tongues LOVE to tell those who do HOW it should be done.
Thus revealing their ignorance of such things.

I'm ignorant, so tell me, how should it be done?

Also, can any of your people raise the dead, and do verifiable healing?
 
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What languages have you spoken as directed by the Holy Spirit?

The first time that my wife ever spoke in tongues there was a woman in the church from India who told my wife after the service that she had praised God in a dialect of India that she knew.

I wasn't there at that time. It actually took place about five years or so before I met her.
 
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Skidder

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As is inevitably the case with people who go on rants about the evils of Pentecostalism and a more intellectual approach to Christianity than they are capable of understanding. The arrogance pretty much oozes off the page of your humble "Peace and Grace" post. Of course, as is always the case, you cover yourself by asserting that those to whom you show no peace or grace are so far from The Truth (as you, of course, see it) that there is no duty of peace and grace on your part. BTW, John MacArthur is one of the most widely influential and widely respected Christian leaders of the past 50 years - but fortunately we have folks like you to condemn him and show us the error of our ways (always with peace and grace, of course).
He condemns himself by proclaiming the church in Corinth was speaking a demonic tongues. He will answer for that kind of blasphemy.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Some people just like to see God do stuff, anything, i mean having thirst for God, can be having thirst of God doing things, if God does nothing in your life, then something is wrong i say. And this does not mean all people believe the first thing that crosses them as being from God.

Sure, I've been there and learned from it. I think from time to time we all would have liked to feel that God either directly worked through us, or this/that was a little miracle, and not just the coincidence it likely was, just so we know he's aware of us. But think about it, we should not need that so badly we have to make it up...if we do, it shows a severe lack of faith.

God shouldn't have to prove a thing, and maybe we shouldn't be so needy for that. However I do agree that's a more innocent side of this type thing, and not near as bad as what the OP puts across, but just saying, even what seems innocent there, may not be. I am certain it would be more easily forgiven, or even tolerated by God than the not so innocent end of this..
 
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PENTECOSTALISM VS INTELLECTUAL CHRISTIANITY

1 Corinthians 14:1-5
Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

This portion of scripture is full of POWER and LIFE. The western church today is so inflamed with division that many fail to gravitate to passages such as these. THIS POWER of the Holy Spirit to the body of Christ is limited on two major fronts…. 1) Pentecostalism, 2) Intellectual Christianity

1) Pentecostalism has poisoned the watering hole in several ways: CHAOS is the opposite of ORDER! Paul lays out strict guidelines on how these gifts are to be administered in the church, and he goes on to say that failure to do so will have costly effects…

“Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind?”-1 Corinthians 14:23

And this is not what what many in the Pentecostal church have enforced, on the contrary, the very opposite. They believe they have something the other churches don’t so they pursue reckless abandonment in the name of “holiness”. Because of their lack of discernment and their gratifications of the flesh much of the simplicity that is in Christ will remain hidden from them. Their glorification of themselves over Christ is the very opposite of what these gifts of the Holy Spirit were intended to do, and that is to bring glory to Christ that we may walk by faith in Him.

2) Intellectual Christianity is just as deadly as Pentecostalism. The wisdom and power of God is foolishness to men. These are the ones who rise above spiritual gifts in the name of “intellect”. The supernatural is not necessary for their knowledge of scripture has already superseded any need of revelation and dependency on His Spirit . And they are quick to use the chaos of the Pentecostals to denounce these scriptures. Like little spiritual Einsteins they have calculated the Grace of God to a manageable formula. They treat prophecy with contempt, and thus quench the Spirit’s fire. One of their leaders on the forefront is John MacArthur. He has removed scriptures from 1 Corinthians and proclaims the church in Corinth were speaking a demonic tongues. Another heresy to go with His “Lordship Salvation”. Again, the simplicity that is in Christ will remain hidden in the absence of the truth. If we neglect scriptures such as these we neglect the Lord Jesus Christ Himself for HE IS THE WORD!!

Conclusion:
“Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts”!! That about says it all!! And one more thing before I conclude this presentation... and that is to always be on your guard for the subtleties of our enemy. These divisions are not apart from his influence. He was a liar from the beginning and he knows that divisions such as these will limit the effectiveness of the church. So let us not be unaware of His schemes, but let us walk in a GRACE that is SUFFICIENT and always test the spirits!!.

1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

I’m not a Pentecostal and I’m too stupid to be an intellectual, just a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ who speaks in tongues. So many Christians who speak in tongues are afraid to address the John MacArthurs of this world for fear they may be looked down upon, but we are not of those who drag our fear around like a blanket!! NO!! We are of those who were purchased by the PRECIOUS BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST!!

Grace and Peace…..

You're right that overemphasis on emotions or thinking can lead to heresies. Why can't we use both of those aspects of our personalities along with the other aspect, our deciding? I don't suppose that's possible this side of Jesus' return.
 
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Saint Steven

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This term means foreign languages. People who spoke in tongues (spoke decipherable words in a foreign language) were able to communicate the gospel in languages they had never learned before to people who spoke those languages.

So what languages have you spoken?
What do you make of this?

1 Corinthians 14:2
For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.
 
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Saint Steven

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You're right that overemphasis on emotions or thinking can lead to heresies. Why can't we use both of those aspects of our personalities along with the other aspect, our deciding? I don't suppose that's possible this side of Jesus' return.
Define heresy.
 
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Al Touthentop

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Just read it the way it's written without carnal intellect and denominational filters. It says what it says plain as day.

It does. That word, in Greek that was translated "tongues" in English, means languages. You might recall that the Bible was not written in English.

On the day of Pentecost, when the apostles spoke in "tongues" they spoke in languages that the people could understand.

And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language.

Note that what the people heard was "them speak in his own language." The miracle was in the speaking, not the hearing.

1 Corinthians 14:2
For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

This is a continuation of his previous words. It does not say here that every language spoken is jibberish. Yet, in a congregation where everyone speaks Greek, as was the case in Corinth, a person speaking in a foreign language cannot be understood by the congregation. So in essence, even if he is operating his gift through the spirit, it has no benefit to the rest of the congregation. This is why he writes a bit further down that prophecy has actual benefit to the congregation because it is in their native language and offers edification. Somebody speaking in a foreign language essentially speaks to nobody but God unless there is either an interpreter (who speaks that language) or a person there who speaks that language and can receive the message.

Paul points out that speaking in tongues is for unbelievers, not believers. (This is why Cornelius and his family spoke in tongues, that Peter might believe the Gentiles were granted 'repentance to life'). That alone ought to provide some insight as to its purpose. A bunch of people speaking jibberish that no one can understand in a worship service is exactly what Paul was preaching against. He didn't forbid anyone to speak in tongues because he had advised them on its purpose and place. A person who had that gift should use it in the proper circumstances.

The early Pentecostals understood this and because of this they sent people who claimed to be speaking in tongues to foreign countries as missionaries. They had to bring them back when they realized that they weren't actually speaking in foreign languages at all. It caused much embarrassment.

So what languages have you spoken?
 
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Kenny'sID

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What do you make of this?

1 Corinthians 14:2
For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

I make this of that:

1 Corinthians 14: 27 If any man speaketh in a tongue, [let it be] by two, or at the most three, and [that] in turn; and let one interpret: 28 but if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

So, can you speak in a decipherable tongue as well so we can not only edify you, but get something out of it? Or is it that you as well as others who claim tongues, can only happen to speak in a non provable tongue?

If you can speak in a real language with tongues, can you also recommend an interpreter so we can verify this? Thanks for your cooperation in getting to the bottom of this.

I'll be back shortly with the part of chapter 14 that should have been mentioned...it's very interesting, to say the least. :)
 
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