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Featured PENTECOSTALISM VS INTELLECTUAL CHRISTIANITY

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Skidder, Nov 29, 2019 at 10:32 AM.

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  1. Skidder

    Skidder Member

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    PENTECOSTALISM VS INTELLECTUAL CHRISTIANITY

    1 Corinthians 14:1-5
    Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

    This portion of scripture is full of POWER and LIFE. The western church today is so inflamed with division that many fail to gravitate to passages such as these. THIS POWER of the Holy Spirit to the body of Christ is limited on two major fronts…. 1) Pentecostalism, 2) Intellectual Christianity

    1) Pentecostalism has poisoned the watering hole in several ways: CHAOS is the opposite of ORDER! Paul lays out strict guidelines on how these gifts are to be administered in the church, and he goes on to say that failure to do so will have costly effects…

    “Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind?”-1 Corinthians 14:23

    And this is not what what many in the Pentecostal church have enforced, on the contrary, the very opposite. They believe they have something the other churches don’t so they pursue reckless abandonment in the name of “holiness”. Because of their lack of discernment and their gratifications of the flesh much of the simplicity that is in Christ will remain hidden from them. Their glorification of themselves over Christ is the very opposite of what these gifts of the Holy Spirit were intended to do, and that is to bring glory to Christ that we may walk by faith in Him.

    2) Intellectual Christianity is just as deadly as Pentecostalism. The wisdom and power of God is foolishness to men. These are the ones who rise above spiritual gifts in the name of “intellect”. The supernatural is not necessary for their knowledge of scripture has already superseded any need of revelation and dependency on His Spirit . And they are quick to use the chaos of the Pentecostals to denounce these scriptures. Like little spiritual Einsteins they have calculated the Grace of God to a manageable formula. They treat prophecy with contempt, and thus quench the Spirit’s fire. One of their leaders on the forefront is John MacArthur. He has removed scriptures from 1 Corinthians and proclaims the church in Corinth were speaking a demonic tongues. Another heresy to go with His “Lordship Salvation”. Again, the simplicity that is in Christ will remain hidden in the absence of the truth. If we neglect scriptures such as these we neglect the Lord Jesus Christ Himself for HE IS THE WORD!!

    Conclusion:
    “Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts”!! That about says it all!! And one more thing before I conclude this presentation... and that is to always be on your guard for the subtleties of our enemy. These divisions are not apart from his influence. He was a liar from the beginning and he knows that divisions such as these will limit the effectiveness of the church. So let us not be unaware of His schemes, but let us walk in a GRACE that is SUFFICIENT and always test the spirits!!.

    1 John 4:1
    Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

    I’m not a Pentecostal and I’m too stupid to be an intellectual, just a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ who speaks in tongues. So many Christians who speak in tongues are afraid to address the John MacArthurs of this world for fear they may be looked down upon, but we are not of those who drag our fear around like a blanket!! NO!! We are of those who were purchased by the PRECIOUS BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST!!

    Grace and Peace…..
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019 at 11:53 AM
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  2. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It doesn't take brains to figure out today's claims to the spiritual gifts are fraudulent. If the Apostles were here, they would be headline news every night.
     
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  3. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    Video from my church after which I left blessed!
     
  4. Skidder

    Skidder Member

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    Yes, I agree. They would probably stand out as "extreme".
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019 at 11:38 AM
  5. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. - 1 Corinthians 14:39

    What part of “forbid not” do you not understand? And most anti-Pentecostal sermons talk on the superiority of a love that they themselves do not have.
     
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  6. Al Touthentop

    Al Touthentop Active Member

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    What languages have you spoken as directed by the Holy Spirit?
     
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  7. Skidder

    Skidder Member

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    Are you asking me this question?
     
  8. Al Touthentop

    Al Touthentop Active Member

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    Anyone who claims to have spoken in tongues can answer.
     
  9. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    1. That any display of garbled speech or a series of one-syllable sounds IS, in truth, "to speak in tongues."

    As you know, any such outburst is routinely defended as genuine by Pentecostals as though there are no people trying artificially to make sounds that they think might be a gift. And that's to say nothing of downright phonies, who do exist.

    2. That being unable to speak in tongues must mean that someone has forbidden to speak in tongues. It doesn't.
     
  10. Gracia Singh

    Gracia Singh Newbie Supporter

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    I have visited a number of Pentecostal churches over the years. I have met some devout, stable, sincere, prayerful, blanced folks.

    I have also seen, consistently, a lot of emotionalism, obeying feelings rather than Christ, confusion, false claims of authority and divine power, an excessive trust in one's pastor as a direct mouthpiece of God's Spirit, an extreme focus on money and wealth as a sign of God's blessings, and a serious lack of discernment.
     
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  11. Skidder

    Skidder Member

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    I speak in tongues almost everyday. Not as much as I should due to the cares of this world and this nagging sinful hull that encapsulates me until the day of redemption. Can't wait until I see HIM face to face, no longer through a glass darkly!!

    Sometimes this language changes depending on the prayer, when I am weeping deeply for someone the language will often change "different kinds of tongues".

    1 Corinthians 12:28
    And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues.

    Testimony time:

    My older son, when he was still in school, had severe sinus problems. He had two surgeries and every time these problems seemed to be getting worse. He was on antibiotics close to 50% of the time while in school for sinus infections. So bad that he had to take other prescriptions to relief the damage from the antibiotics (stomach problems). They were about to schedule him for another surgery when my wife and I really started praying for him. One night after everyone went to bed, shortly before his next appointment, I got down on my knees and started weeping for him (this is one of those times when the language changed). I prayed and cried out to God for help! Twice I got up from my knees and was headed for the bedroom when I was prompted to get back down, and keep weeping for him. After the third time down I had a peace that I could head to bed.

    The next morning my son came up the stairs from his bedroom with his face was no longer swollen, and he was smiling and said "I feel great". When he went in for his appointment they found anything wrong, and I don't recall him being on antibiotics ever again, and that was nearly 5 years ago!

    I don't have this kind of compassion apart from Christ. My stubbornness wanted to go to bed, but God is full of love and He showed me night how much He loved my son as I was weeping for him.

    Grace and Peace...
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019 at 12:45 PM
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  12. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    I miss my old Pentecostal Holiness pastor...

    1. Very disciplined guy - Up at 6AM every morning
    2. Rejoiced in what he called being a Pentecostal Holiness country preacher
    3. Revivals - At least one every two months - All with unique and good evangelists
    4. Would let the Holy Spirit have his way in service
    5. Take time to pray for the sick at church and in the hospitals. Carried a bottle of anointing oil with him
    6. Was a friendly guy and would come visit you
    7. Loved God and very Christlike.
    8. A great, loving, and supportive family man as well

    [​IMG]

    Our new pastor has been there a little over a year. He thinks he has arrived with his Masters degree at Liberty University. We have very few communion services and no revivals. The church attendance is way down and they struggle to find people to play the piano. Just last week he was preaching on the following topic...

    And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son. - 2 Kings 6:28-29

    And as he preaching on this, talking about how planes have crashed in the mountains where "who to eat" was the option for survival. And how you would never know that we may have that option as well. I thought to myself while he was preaching how long I would hang around with that group before I would run for my life! It was all I could do to tuck my bible under my arm and leave that place in great haste.

    My dad is elderly and I like to take him to church dinners that some have for the public. I find so many churches these days merging. The old faithful WW2 generation preacher retired after many years and the new guy just doesn't have it. So the solution is to close the church and merge with another.

    In so many camp meetings I used to go to they used to have ministers who would reach out and touch the hearts of the congregation. Most of them were in a life deep in sin and came out of it similarly as the Apostle Paul. The fact that they were uneducated and up there preaching eloquently was a miracle in itself. It was fun going to church as you would not know what the next service was going to be like.

    Now we have preachers trying to conduct camp meeting with Doctorate Degrees. The deliveries are dry and if anyone goes to the altar after the message he is most of the times there by himself.
     
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  13. Ricky M

    Ricky M Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And to you
     
  14. Ricky M

    Ricky M Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It's really very simple....

    1. There are 2 kinds of tongues,
    a. one is personal and not intended for an assembly
    a1. it is spoken between the speaker and God
    a 2. it edifies the speaker
    b. one is public, with interpretation, and intended for an assembly
    b1. a tongue with interpretation is called prophecy
    b2. it edifies the assembly
    c. each has a proper place and time
    c1. it is better to not speak, than to do so incorrectly
    2. Tongues are the least of the gifts
    a. Yet it is the only one Paul said he wished we all would do.
    3. Not everyone will speak in tongues
    4. Those who do not speak in tongues are not at a loss
    a. we are each given different gifts and parts of the body to fulfill
    b. again, tongues are the least of those gifts, and not to be boasted about
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019 at 1:44 PM
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  15. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    scripture?
     
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  16. Concord1968

    Concord1968 LCMS Lutheran

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    I know people are going to be piling on the Pentecostals, so I'll leave that alone. I would point out that Martin Luther himself despised the Scholastics who tried to intellectualize Christianity. He referred to them derisively as the "School Men"
     
  17. Ricky M

    Ricky M Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Hmmm... formatting issues ;)
     
  18. Al Touthentop

    Al Touthentop Active Member

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    This term means foreign languages. People who spoke in tongues (spoke decipherable words in a foreign language) were able to communicate the gospel in languages they had never learned before to people who spoke those languages.

    So what languages have you spoken?
     
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  19. Skidder

    Skidder Member

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    Just read it the way it's written without carnal intellect and denominational filters. It says what it says plain as day.

    1 Corinthians 14:2
    For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.
     
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  20. AvisG

    AvisG Member Supporter

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    As is inevitably the case with people who go on rants about the evils of Pentecostalism and a more intellectual approach to Christianity than they are capable of understanding. The arrogance pretty much oozes off the page of your humble "Peace and Grace" post. Of course, as is always the case, you cover yourself by asserting that those to whom you show no peace or grace are so far from The Truth (as you, of course, see it) that there is no duty of peace and grace on your part. BTW, John MacArthur is one of the most widely influential and widely respected Christian leaders of the past 50 years - but fortunately we have folks like you to condemn him and show us the error of our ways (always with peace and grace, of course).
     
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