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Pelosi receives Communion in Vatican despite abortion stance

Discussion in 'OBOB General Politics Forum' started by Andrewn, Jun 29, 2022.

  1. Andrewn

    Andrewn Well-Known Member CF Ambassadors Supporter

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    "U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi met with Pope Francis on Wednesday and received Communion during a papal Mass in St. Peter’s Basilica, witnesses said, despite her position in support of abortion rights.

    "Pelosi attended the morning Mass marking the feasts of St. Peter and St. Paul, during which Francis bestowed the woolen pallium stole on newly consecrated archbishops. She was seated in a VIP diplomatic section and received Communion along with the rest of the congregants, according to two people who witnessed the moment."

    Pelosi receives Communion in Vatican despite abortion stance
     
  2. pdudgeon

    pdudgeon Traditional Catholic Supporter

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    She still has time for confession of that known sin. May God move her to do so.
     
  3. Andrewn

    Andrewn Well-Known Member CF Ambassadors Supporter

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    I don't think a private confession works when the sin is public promotion of vice.
     
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  4. Michie

    Michie Standing by the Ukraine. Supporter

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    With no intention of repentance it would be invalid.
     
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  5. Valletta

    Valletta Well-Known Member

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    In order to receive forgiveness for that sin she needs to first repent. It's quite a grave situation she has put herself in.
     
  6. pdudgeon

    pdudgeon Traditional Catholic Supporter

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    You are welcome to your opinion, but the forgiveness is up to God to decide, for only He knows our heart.
     
  7. Michie

    Michie Standing by the Ukraine. Supporter

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    If there is no repentance, there is no forgiveness. That’s not an opinion, that’s Catholic teaching. Grace does not give one license to sin.
     
  8. pdudgeon

    pdudgeon Traditional Catholic Supporter

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    Thank you for that explaination.

    So you are comparing her situation to King Henry's, when he started the Church of England?
    If so, then we have billions and billions of people alive today, who do not belong to The Catholic Church, and thus are in grave situations now.
    When we think of the present situation in that way, we are indeed in a grave situation.
    And that would in turn mean that it is the present day Catholic Church that God was referring to, when He said that in the last days only a Remnant would be saved.
    So to bring this down to the present level, what you seem to be saying is that on this site, only the members of OBOB are to be saved, and even then not all of them, in all the inhabitants of the present world.

    Quite literally that would be less than 10 people who can expect to get to Heaven.
    Indeed, quite a shocking conclusion, if it is true.
     
  9. Michie

    Michie Standing by the Ukraine. Supporter

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    @pdudgeon, you know the Catechism of the Catholic Church does not say that Protestants aren’t saved. The RCC states she holds the fullness of faith. I’m really surprised by some of the things you state here at times. :pray:
     
  10. Valletta

    Valletta Well-Known Member

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    I don't recall mentioning King Henry in this thread. And that's quite an extrapolation.
     
  11. pdudgeon

    pdudgeon Traditional Catholic Supporter

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    Actually not. King Henry had a public problem with the Pope of his day and he "solved it" by creating a different Church. Sometimes when people run into a rock wall, it knocks them for a loop, and they try to think of a way to get around or over the wall. That is a common reaction.
    Very few people give up, completely defeated, and deciding that the wall is insurmountable, they tuck tail, turn around, go home, and never know what was on the other side.
    Having been completely defeated doesn't leave room for any hope.

    So for a politician like Nancy to expect her to bow down, completely defeated, to tuck tail and bow meekly would be out of character. That would have been the end for her.
     
  12. Michie

    Michie Standing by the Ukraine. Supporter

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    So you condone going against the teachings of the Church? Fact is, she presents herself as a devout Catholic and condones things the Church teaches against. She bears a false witness. Are you ok with that? Confession is to be sincere. You can’t do a five minute confession that equates to “Sorry! Not sorry” with no intention of repenting. I do not know what you are thinking by stating the things you do when you title yourself a traditional Catholic... it’s really confusing.
     
  13. pdudgeon

    pdudgeon Traditional Catholic Supporter

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    The point being, that it's always good to remember how Christ treated Mary Magdalene.
    Caught in sin? Yep.
    Guilty beyond a doubt? Yep.
    But what did Christ do?
    Did He throw a stone? Nope.
    Did He publically condemn her?
    Nope.
    He showed compassion. He who had more right than any of the others to stone her, showed compassion.
    Compassion can win hearts, and save lives.
    It's good to remember that there was only one person in the Bible who had been condemned by Christ; who had no hope of salvation.
    By the grace of God, we don't know what tomorrow holds for any of us.
    Therefore, it's not good to condemn a person out of hand, or to turn them away from the sacraments.
    Until the very last day on Earth, there is hope of forgiveness and reconciliation with God. And that day only He knows.
    So it's entirely possible for a priest who turns away a sinner who seeks the Eucharist, to be taking something away from them that Christ had intended that they receive as a means of healing.
    Eternal Life is in the hands of each Priest.
    But they have to ask themselves "What is God's will?",
    Not "Is this person worthy to receive?"
    We none of us are worthy.

    That is what Christ was trying to teach the crowd gathered and ready to stone Mary Magdalene.
    My question is, have we learned that lesson yet? Or we still picking up stones?
     
  14. Michie

    Michie Standing by the Ukraine. Supporter

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    The Church has shown compassion and patience and continues to do so. Is it compassionate to let her heap condemnation on herself as she unrepentantly partakes of the Eucharist? Is that compassionate? Should we hide our light? Allow our beliefs to be trampled on the streets of the world like so much worthless salt?

    Why have confession at all then? Why not open communion to all? That’s not the way it works. Mary Magdalene was repentant and followed the Lord’s teachings. Jesus asked all those in sin to repent and follow Him. Stumbling is one thing. Obstinate disobedience of something you claim to follow is outright disingenuous. Not to mention the false witness it shows to the world.

    By condoning this, you yourself, are going against the teachings of the Church.

    There were followers of Christ that could not accept His teaching at the Last Supper and walked away.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2022
  15. Michie

    Michie Standing by the Ukraine. Supporter

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    Notice that Jesus made no attempt to soften what he said, no attempt to correct “misunderstandings,” for there were none. Our Lord’s listeners understood him perfectly well. They no longer thought he was speaking metaphorically.

    In John 6:60 we read: “Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, ‘This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?’” (It is here, in the rejection of the Eucharist, that Judas fell away; look at John 6:64.) “After this, many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him” (John 6:66).

    This is the only record we have of any of Christ’s followers forsaking him for purely doctrinal reasons. If they erred in taking a metaphor in a literal sense, why didn’t he call them back and straighten things out? Both the Jews, who were suspicious of him, and his disciples, who had accepted everything up to this point, would have remained with him had he said he was speaking only symbolically.

    But he did not correct these protesters. Twelve times he said he was the bread that came down from heaven; four times he said they would have “to eat my flesh and drink my blood.” John 6 was an extended promise of what would be instituted at the Last Supper—and it was a promise that could not be more explicit. Or so it would seem to a Catholic. But what do Fundamentalists say?


    Continued below.
    Christ in the Eucharist
     
  16. WarriorAngel

    WarriorAngel I close my eyes and see you smile Supporter

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  17. Green Sun

    Green Sun 404: Star not found

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    She didn't commit a sin, so I see no reason why the archbishop should have proper cause to prevent her from receiving communion.

    I get that people here view her as a political enemy, it seems pointlessly incendiary and not based on the teachings of the Church to claim she should be denied a core part of mass when no mortal sin was committed.
     
  18. Michie

    Michie Standing by the Ukraine. Supporter

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    There are many clergy that disagree with you.
     
  19. Green Sun

    Green Sun 404: Star not found

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    Fair enough.

    For what I see, at least, is an archbishop using his power again person he views a political enemy, who has not committed something that deserves a denial of communion, and I don't like an archbishop doing that.

    I very much doubt that the archbishop would be willing to reverse this, as long as Mrs. Pelosi is a democratic member of congress, but I might be assigning too much political malice there.
     
  20. Michie

    Michie Standing by the Ukraine. Supporter

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    It has nothing to do with her party but formally cooperating with grave evil as a supposedly devout Catholic and promotion of that grave evil. The bishops consider it a merciful act to withdraw communion for the good of her eternal soul.
     
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