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Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Handmaid for Jesus, Jun 14, 2017.

  1. Yahchristian

    Yahchristian Active Member

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    Actually, the word is shabuwa.

    It appears in the Bible 20 times.

    Shabuwa is translated as "week" 19 times and "seven" 1 time.

    But when it comes to a prophetic "week" (shabuwa), the Reformers came to understand that it represents 7 years.

    The Reformers also came to understand that a prophetic "day" represents 1 year, a prophetic "month" represents 30 years, and a prophetic "time" represents 360 years.

    As a result, this was their basic view of prophecy...

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    From your link...
    "heptad, seven (of years)"
     
  3. Yahchristian

    Yahchristian Active Member

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    The word in the Bible is shabuwa.

    The word can mean either "seven, period of seven (days or years), heptad, week" based on context etc.

    But in the 20 times it is used in the Bible, shabuwa is translated as "week" 19 times and "seven" 1 time.

    When it comes to a prophetic "week" (the most common definition for shabuwa), the Reformers came to understand that it represents 7 years.

    The Reformers also came to understand that a prophetic "day" represents 1 year, a prophetic "month" represents 30 years, and a prophetic "time" represents 360 years.

    As a result, this was their basic view of prophecy...

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
  4. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Well, there's their monumental mistake right there.

    The 7 years following Gog/Maog = the 7 years in Daniel 9:27 = the 7 years cycle of Deuteronomy 31:9-13 = the 7 years which the end times chapters of Revelation 6-19 are based on, containing the 1260 days, the 42 months, the 3 1/2 days, the time, times, half times.

    And the like times, found elsewhere in the bible, are either the first half of the same 7 years. or in the second half of the same 7 years.

    first half
    1260 days, Revelation 11:3, 12:6

    Second half

    42 months, Revelation 11:2, 13:5
    times, times, half times, Revelation 12:14, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7

    And all of the timeframes of the end times fit within the 7 years, including:
    the 2300 days, Daniel 8:14
    the 1290 days, Daniel 12:11
    the 1335 days, Daniel 12:12
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
  5. Yahchristian

    Yahchristian Active Member

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    The very fact that the same amount of time is specified both as 1,260 days and as 42 months is one of the reasons the Reformers concluded that a prophetic day and month had other meanings.

    Because according to the Jewish calendar (which is lunar based with each month starting on a New Moon and averaging 29.53 days), 42 months is equal to 1,240 days (not 1,260 days).

    If the prophecies would have specified the amount of time both as 1,240 days and as 42 months, that would have led us to believe they were referring to normal days and months.

    The same goes with a prophetic "time"...

    According to the Jewish calendar (which fluctuates between 12 and 13 months averaging 29.53 days each), most years are around 354 days and leap years are around 384 days. Not 360, which is the value used in prophecies.

    That is one of the reasons the Reformers came to believe that a prophetic "day" is 1 year, a prophetic "week" is 7 years, a prophetic "month" is 30 years, and a prophetic "time" is 360 years.

    When the Reformers applied that prophetic scale to the prophecies, they came up with this view of prophecy...

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    No that is not the reason for the 42 months and 1260 days, both being in Revelation. There are not two different calendar systems in Revelation.

    1260 days + 3 /2 days + 42 months = 7 years The 42 months are used instead of saying 1256. 5 days. The beast will rule unimpeded by the two witnesses who will have left the world at that time, the last 42 months.

    1260 days + 3 1/2 days + war in heaven + time, time, half times = 7 years.

    After the two witnesses ascend, and the 7th trumpet sounds, there is the war in heaven (the second heaven) - which it is not given how much earth time passes as that war takes place - what's left is given as a time, time,s half times.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
  7. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    What historical year are you claiming that the 1260 "years" on your illustration chart began? According to the reformers, what year did the 1260 "years" began?
     
  8. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Daniel 8:14, the 2300 days

    day 1.... day 220 daily sacrifices begin............2300 days ................day 2520 Jesus Returns.

    Daniel 12:12, the 1335 days


    day 1.....day 220 daily sacrfiices begin...... day 1185 AOD setup ............1335 days ........day 2520 Jesus Returns

    Revelation 13:5 the 42 months

    day 1.................day 1185 AOD setup.....Jews flee to mountains......day 1260 beast kills the two witnesses.......3 1/2 days the two witnesses ascend...............42 months.............. day 2520 Jesus returns.

    Daniel 12:11, the 1290 days

    day 1.............. day 1185 AOD setup..............1290 days............day 2475 sign of Jesus in heaven.....
    armies gather at Armageddon to fight him.......day 2520 Jesus returns.

    Revelation 12:14, the time, times, half times

    day 1................ day 1263.5 the two witness ascend......the war in heaven..........time, times, half times, Satan restricted to earth.........day 2520 Jesus returns.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
  9. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    No. The war in heaven happened long before the Book of Revelation was written.


    We have the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible at Revelation 11:15.
    The text says at this point the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and Christ "forever". How long is forever?


    Then in Revelation 11:18 we have "the time of the judgment of the dead". This is described by Christ in John 5:27-30.

    Chapter 11 is the end of the story.

    Chapter 12 begins with a history lesson, which includes the fall of Satan and the birth and death of Christ, who is the man-child based on Psalm 2.

    The Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.
    This is confirmed by Christ returning as a thief at Armageddon in Revelation 16:15-16, and also returning in chapter 19.


    There is no 7 year tribulation period.

    .
     
  10. Yahchristian

    Yahchristian Active Member

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    The dates the Reformers suggested ranged from AD 533 to AD 800. I personally think it was between AD 756 (when the Pope first owned land) and AD 800 (when the Popes began crowning emperors).


    P.S.

    The Popes are unique in that they are both spiritual rulers and also temporal rulers. The Popes have ruled territory ever since AD 756 with the exception of the years between 1870 and 1929.

    The Reformers could not agree on whether the 1,260 year reign of the Popes would be counted from the beginning of their spiritual reign or from the beginning of their temporal reign.

    The earliest date suggested for the beginning of the spiritual reign of the Popes is AD 533 when Justinian issued the Codex Justinianus. which added significance to the Bishop of Rome over the other bishops. The latest date suggested is AD 606 when Emperor Phocas declared Boniface III, the Bishop of Rome, as the Universal Bishop.

    The earliest date suggested for the beginning of the temporal reign of the Popes is AD 756 with the Donation of Pepin which gave property to the Popes for the first time. The latest date suggested is AD 800 with the establishment of the Holy Roman Empire when the Popes crowned the emperor for the first time.

    When I made this chart 20 years ago, I used what I thought was the earliest possible date, AD 756, when the Pope first owned land.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
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