Peace Deal or Confirm a Covenant?

LilShepherdBoy

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HOLY COW!!! Look what just came out. This actually happened yesterday too.

Yesterday I posted an article of a Trump attempted assassination that happened a year ago linking him to the a/c intended to be a joke, but holy cow coincidence, there was an actual assassination attempt yesterday.

Trump was the real target
The wishful thinking of a Trump assassination is getting more threatening.

Trump was the real target

Suspect in congressional shooting was Bernie Sanders supporter, strongly anti-Trump

James T. Hodgkinson: Bernie Sanders supporter, strongly anti-Trump - CNN.com

Amazing coincidence! I need to be careful what I wish for. Regardless, Trump is not the a/c - I can assure anyone - however, there's certainly some grim similarities between him and the a/c.

Additional info with video.
Man who shot at GOP lawmakers had history of criminal run-ins
 
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Douggg

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Do you think they understood basic math?
It is not a math issue. It is an issue of did the apostles ever claim what you are claiming?
And the answer is "no". It is not found in the New Testament.


Christ commanded that the Gospel be taken to Daniel's people, the Jews, during His earthly ministry of 3 1/2 years.

Here is what Jesus said in Luke 24:44-48 to the disciples. to spread the gospel to ALL NATIONS.

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.


45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

48 And ye are witnesses of these things.


There was some period of time between Calvary and the stoning of Stephen.
So?

Based on Galatians 1:18, Paul did not take the Gentiles until 3 years after his conversion.
irrelevant.


The original disciples were told to spread the gospel to all nations. Not just Paul.

3.5 + 3 + time from Calvary to Stephen's reviewing the whole history of Israel and then being stoned = about 7 years or more
imo. it is preposterous to think that the climax of the 70 weeks is the stoning of Steven, the murder of a Christian... and not the Glorious Return of Jesus, which the entire book of Revelation is dedicated to, and chapters 6-19 has been structured on that last week, the 7 years of Daniel 9:27.

Which Stephen will be returning with Jesus. The prophecy of the 70 weeks don't end on a sad note. But on hosanna, glory to God in the Highest.

Daniel 9 is about the New Covenant Messiah,.............
But some think Daniel 9, the purpose is leading up to and climaxed with the stoning of Stephen ! :doh: Well, it's not. It is about the Glorious Return of Jesus. And there are 7 years forthcoming leading up to it, which Revelation 6 thorugh 19 describe, given by Jesus Himself. And none of the apostles wrote anything about the stoning of Stephen being associated with the confirmation of the covenant for 7 years.

The events of Daniel 2, Daniel 7, Daniel 8, Daniel 9, Daniel 11, Daniel 12 - ALL END WITH THE GLORIOUS RETURN OF JESUS.
 
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GUANO

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Hi and thanks for sharing the origin of the sons of Seth theory as that was new for me. I do not agree and really point to Enoch and Jude and Peter as my proofs as well as Job. Job the oldest book begins with the phrase the son's of God were presenting themselves before the LORD and Satan was among them. This is certainly linking this term with the demonic realm. The DNA of Seth would not produce giants. There were giants before and after the flood. Jude says 5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Jude says the angels did not keep their 1sst estate and the people of Sodom went after strange flesh; it could be they wanted to abuse the angels again cross being relations.

2 Peter 4 4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;

You see here Satan is an angel and he certainly sinned and he is not yet cast down to hell and chains. In Enoch he names several chief angles who led a group of 200 angels to leave their 1st abode and they took wives for themselves. It also says they gave man specific sciences such as metalwork, cosmetics, sorcery, and astrology. The end times is supposed to be like the days of Noah. The ancient technology if you do some research was incredible and now we are seeing an explosion in science. The CERN project and others point to the soon return of what PBS is telling people are ancient aliens. The men who have done a lot of research into this include LA Marzulli, Tom Horn, Christ Putnim Timothy Alberino have shown there were races of giants pre and post flood. They show that powers in government and in the church are preparing for open disclosure of races of aliens. These men of the Bible warn they are not from other planets but from another dimension. When 2 Thes 4 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

What kind of God is he claiming to be? Certainly not the God of creation but he will likely claim to be the ancient God returned. In the midpoint of the tribulation in Rev 13 we see the dragon giving his authority to the beast who causes all to worship both the dragon Satan and the beast. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast,

Peter spoke of the angels that sinned being bound and he was referring to not all those who were loyal to Satan but of those recorded by Peter to have been put in hell already which are the sons of God who took wives, the angles who did not keep their 1st estate. This scenario plays out until the end and the idea of the sons of Seth really takes the supernatural out of the Bible.

These books being referenced are not in the canon for several reasons, the Book of Enoch is definitely Chaldean in origin—all of those nations shared their pre-flood origins and Enoch the closest thing you can get to Chaldean Kabbalah (which is also where the Talmud and Jewish Kabbalah originated). I wouldn't be surprised if the book itself was dictated by some Chaldean Oracle in a trance—the Rosicrucians identify Enoch with Hermes and Thoth (Greek and Egyptian patron-spirits of magic). The book is also one of the most important works for adherents of Western Mysticism, Rosicrusianism, Luciferianism, etc... Their ideology is very 'Christian' in nature, albeit it's completely Gnostic and they worship Lucifer and Jesus as the same being. The Rosicrucian's entire mission is to become 'sons of god' and build the New Jerusalem. It's the same spirit of Satan from the beginning—to ascend to the Most High and create an everlasting kingdom. So I do not hold the Book of Enoch to be authoritative in any way other than in the study of the wiles of my enemy.
 
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Handmaid for Jesus

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HOLY COW!!! Look what just came out. This actually happened yesterday too.

Yesterday I posted an article of a Trump attempted assassination that happened a year ago linking him to the a/c intended to be a joke, but holy cow coincidence, there was an actual assassination attempt yesterday.

Trump was the real target
The wishful thinking of a Trump assassination is getting more threatening.

Trump was the real target

Suspect in congressional shooting was Bernie Sanders supporter, strongly anti-Trump

James T. Hodgkinson: Bernie Sanders supporter, strongly anti-Trump - CNN.com

Amazing coincidence! I need to be careful what I wish for. Regardless, Trump is not the a/c - I can assure anyone - however, there's certainly some grim similarities between him and the a/c.

Additional info with video.
Man who shot at GOP lawmakers had history of criminal run-ins
I don't think President Trump was the target of yesterday's tragedy, even though the suspect did not like him.
 
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BABerean2

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Could you clarify your view...

When was the New Covenant established?

When did the 70th week begin?

I think the New Covenant was established in the middle of the 70th week.


The 70th week began when Christ began His earthly ministry to His people.
It was at His baptism in the Jordan when He was anointed with the Holy Spirit by His Father and His Father announced Him as the Son. This is confirmed by Acts 10:38.


Mat 3:13  Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. 
Mat 3:14  And John tried to prevent Him, saying, "I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?" 
Mat 3:15  But Jesus answered and said to him, "Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he allowed Him. 
Mat 3:16  When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 
Mat 3:17
  And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." 

There may also be some symbolism in the event missed by many.
Some believe He entered the river Jordan on the east side and left on the west side, symbolizing the children of Israel doing the same thing in the past, when they entered the promised land.



Based on Matthew 26:28 the New Covenant would have been fulfilled at Calvary with the words "It is finished." There is no other explanation of why God ripped the temple veil in half. It was to signify that animal sacrifices were no longer needed and the High priest was no longer needed as the mediator between God and man.

Most Bible scholars believe that His ministry lasted for about 3 1/2 years, which is half a week.
So yes, He confirmed the New Covenant at Calvary in the middle of the 70th week.
 
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Yahchristian

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He confirmed the New Covenant at Calvary in the middle of the 70th week.


If the New Covenant was first confirmed in the middle of the 70th week (I agree with you that is true) and only 3 1/2 years remained...

Why do you say the New Covenant was confirmed for 7 years (instead of 3 1/2)?

I believe the 7 year time period refers to the time between Jesus beginning his ministry and the end of the Old Covenant. The New Covenant was established in the middle of that period.
 
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Douggg

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If the New Covenant was first confirmed in the middle of the 70th week (I agree with you that is true) and only 3 1/2 years remained...

Why do you say the New Covenant was confirmed for 7 years (instead of 3 1/2)?

I believe the 7 year time period refers to the time between Jesus beginning his ministry and the end of the Old Covenant. The New Covenant was established in the middle of that period.
Bab2 is taking 3 years of Jesus's ministry and adding to that the timeframe it takes to get to the stoning of Stephen which Bab2 is saying is another 3 1/2 years to get approximately 7 years.
 
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Douggg

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I believe the 7 year time period refers to the time between Jesus beginning his ministry and the end of the Old Covenant. The New Covenant was established in the middle of that period.
The text of Daniel 9 does not indicate that the messiah would be cutoff at 69 1/2 weeks. But 69 weeks (7 weeks plus 62 weeks).

What I would like to know is how this theory that you and Bab2 hold got started. And what is the denomination or group advocating it. I hear it all the time. And I would like to know how it got started. Please don't tell me with the disciples.
 
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Yahchristian

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Bab2 is taking 3 years of Jesus's ministry and adding to that the timeframe it takes to get to the stoning of Stephen which Bab2 is saying is another 3 1/2 years to get approximately 7 years.


But the New Covenant was not confirmed before it was confirmed. Right?

If the New Covenant was confirmed (established) in the middle of the 70th week as Bab2 says (and I agree), then the New Covenant was only confirmed for 3 1/2 years (the last half of the 70th week) according to his view. Right?

He confirmed the New Covenant at Calvary in the middle of the 70th week.
 
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Yahchristian

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The text of Daniel 9 does not indicate that the messiah would be cutoff at 69 1/2 weeks.

I believe "in the midst of the week" (Daniel 9:27) refers to when Jesus was crucified "to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity" (Daniel 9:24).

Daniel 9:24... Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Daniel 9:27... And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


What I would like to know is how this theory that you and Bab2 hold got started. And what is the denomination or group advocating it.

I do not know what Bab2 believes, but I am advocating what is called The Protestant View. It was included in all of the Protestant Confessions in the 1600's (including the Presbyterian and Baptist confessions). The chart below gives a basic overview. But for a little history...

Daniel chapters 2 and 7 along with Revelation chapter 13 form the frame-work for understanding the "end time" prophecies.

The numerous views of Daniel and Revelation may be divided into three distinct groups. Those that believe the "little horn" or Daniel 7 is PAST, those that believe the "little horn" is PRESENT, and those that believe the "little horn" is FUTURE.

The view that the "little horn" of Daniel 7 is PRESENT originated about the eleventh century. It grew among the Waldenses, Wickliffites, and Hussites, into a consistent scheme of interpretation that was embraced by the Reformers of the sixteenth century.

From this time it spread with a rapidity that was astonishing, so that soon it was received as a self evident and fundamental truth among Protestant churches everywhere. It has been called the Protestant View and sees the Papacy as "that man of sin" (the "little horn" of Daniel 7).

The view that the "little horn" of Daniel 7 is either PAST or FUTURE originated with the Jesuits Alcazar and Ribera at the end of the sixteenth century. They were intended to relieve the Papacy from the terrible stigma cast upon it by the Protestant View. Alcazar tried to do so by referring the prophecies to the distant past, and Ribera referred them to the distant future.

For a considerable period the view that the "little horn" of Daniel 7 is FUTURE was confined to Romanists. But since the beginning of the nineteenth century, it has sprung up among Protestants. It was originally only held by Protestants who were ashamed of the Reformation. However, it is currently a popular view among Protestants in general.


presentist1.gif
 
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Yahchristian

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@Yahchristian Sorry brother, but the chart you posted ends in the year 2000.


Actually, it ends in 2016 if you look close enough.

The Pope is a unique person, who is both a spiritual ruler and a temporal ruler.

The Reformers thought the Papacy would reign for 1,260 years.

But it is a little difficult to determine from history exactly when the Pope's temporal rule started.

I made the chart 25 years ago and used the starting date of 756 AD for the Pope's temporal reign. That is the time of the Donation of Pepin, when Pepin granted property to the Pope.

If you add 1,260 years to 756 AD you come to 2016 AD.

The actual starting date could have been later. For example... Pepin confirmed his Donations in Rome in 756, and in 774 his son Charlemagne again confirmed and reasserted the Donation.

The Popes have been temporal rulers ever since, with the exception of the years between 1870 and 1929.

Another interesting thing is Bible Chronology from Creation to the Battle of Qarqar.

Check that out and let me know what you think.
 
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Handmaid for Jesus

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Yahchristian

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OK :)

Edit to add:
It was interesting to read indeed.


The dates in the Bible do not link by themselves all the way from Adam to now.

You have to link them to some historical date that is also in secular history.

So I created that chart using the fewest number of connected dates in the Bible that connect Adam to the Battle of Qarqar. That battle is one of the most agreed upon dates is secular history. They usually date it to 853 BC. But of course they could be off a little.

Bible Chronology from Creation to the Battle of Qarqar
 
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Douggg

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But the New Covenant was not confirmed before it was confirmed. Right?

If the New Covenant was confirmed (established) in the middle of the 70th week as Bab2 says (and I agree), then the New Covenant was only confirmed for 3 1/2 years (the last half of the 70th week) according to his view. Right?

No, he is citing also a separate additional, following the cross, 3 1/2 years to the time that Stephen was stoned - as that in his theory was the completion of the 70 weeks, is when the gospel was ceased to be to the Jews (completing the 70 weeks determined on Daniel's people the Jews) and which then after the completion of the 70th week, the gospel was spread to gentiles by Paul.

So Bab2 adds 3 years for Jesus's ministry time to the Jews, to get to the crucifixion, and from then, 3 1/2 years till the stoning of Stephen - to get a total of 7 years (thereabouts) for the confirming of the new covenant - to the Jews.


Separately, I would like to point out -

Another thing regarding the New Covenant, "confirmed" is the wrong word.

"Made understood" is the right phrase. Jesus before the crucifixion told the disciples what was going to happen - but although he plainly told them, it was closed to their understanding until after the resurrection, when Jesus opened their minds.

Here is the text Luke 18:34, showing that the understanding was closed to the disciples...

Luke 18:
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:

33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
_________________________________________________________________________

Here is the text, after the resurrection, when Jesus made everything understood to the disciples in Luke 24:

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,


46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
__________________________________________________________________________

And here is why the understanding was sealed from everyone until after the resurrection....

1Corthinians2:

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.


When it was talking about the princes of this world, it is talking about Satan (the prince of this world) and the fallen angels (princes of Persia and Greece, for example) - who sought to have Jesus put to death, thinking by crucifying the King, it would keep the Kingdom of God from replacing their dominion overshadowing the world.

They had no idea that by Jesus being crucified, his shed blood would be the very thing that would free man from the penalty of sin - that man would not have to be judged for sin, that he could be forgiven; which conversely, Satan and the fallen angels have been judged already (John 16:11 below) for their sins and the prosecution and execution of the judgement is what is coming.

John 16:

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
 
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Yahchristian

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He confirmed the New Covenant at Calvary in the middle of the 70th week.

"Made understood" is the right phrase. Jesus before the crucifixion told the disciples what was going to happen - but although he plainly told them it, was closed to understanding until after the resurrection and Jesus open their minds.


So if Jesus "confirmed" ("made understood") the New Covenant around the time of Calvary, which occurred in the middle of the 70th week...

And since there is only 3 1/2 years from the middle of the 70th week until the end of the whole 70 weeks...

That means the New Covenant was only "confirmed" ("made understood") for 3 1/2 years, according to your view.

Not 7 years.

It seems to me that Gabriel was saying that there would be 7 years from the beginning of Jesus' ministry to the end of the Old Covenant.

In other words, the Old Covenant would be "confirmed" ("prevail", gabar in Hebrew) for a final 7 years beginning with Jesus' baptism.

P.S.

I am assuming that you and BABerean2 think the 69 weeks ended at Jesus' baptism. Is that correct, or do you think the 69 weeks ended near Calvary?
 
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Douggg

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I believe "in the midst of the week" (Daniel 9:27) refers to when Jesus was crucified "to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity" (Daniel 9:24).
But it doesn't say the messiah would be cutoff in the midst of the week, but after 69weeks. Not 69 and half weeks.

Jesus rode into Jerusalem that last passover week on a donkey, fulfilling Zechariah 9:9, and Daniel 9:25, hailed by his followers as the messiah. 4 days later he was crucified.
 
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Douggg

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So if Jesus "confirmed" ("made understood") the New Covenant around the time of Calvary, which occurred in the middle of the 70th week...
Setting aside the "confirmed" issue, for a second. When Jesus was crucified was after 69 weeks, not 69 and half weeks.

Look at Daniel 9:25,
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

See, not 69 1/2 weeks, but 69 weeks. It is talking about Jerusalem as being the place. Jesus that last passover week, at the very end of his ministry throughout Israel, rode into Jerusalem riding a donkey, and hailed by his followers as the messiah - four days later he was crucified. 69 weeks had passed, not 69 1/2 weeks.
 
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Yahchristian

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Setting aside the "confirmed" issue, for a second. When Jesus was crucified was after 69 weeks, not 69 and half weeks.

Look at Daniel 9:25,
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

See, not 69 1/2 weeks, but 69 weeks. It is talking about Jerusalem as being the place. Jesus that last passover week, at the very end of his ministry throughout Israel, rode into Jerusalem riding a donkey, and hailed by his followers as the messiah - four days later he was crucified. 69 weeks had passed, not 69 1/2 weeks.


So you think the 69 weeks ends at Calvary. Correct?

When do you believe Jesus was crucified? What year?

P.S.

I think the 69 weeks ends at Jesus' baptism in the Fall of 26 AD, and I think Jesus was crucified in the Spring of 30 AD.
 
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