Peace between Israel and UAE

JohnDB

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After visiting the ME and just talking with people there...

It's the elderly generation that are holding on to all the hate and trying to indoctrinate the younger generation to do the same.

The millenials simply don't hate or care that much about old hatreds.
Palestinian millenials are just about the same... except more desperate for opportunities. They sometimes engage in false reporting of other Palestinians just to get their houses tossed as a form of harassment. The older guys who get reported are almost always guilty of hiding weapons and rhetoric hate literature.

There's many of the 30-something crowd who also are done with the fighting.

And this agreement between the UAE and Israel reflects that disinterest...with more deals coming. Because if both the UAE and Israel flourish financially from the agreement...there will be a demand by the people to form more agreements.

In the ME most of the decisions are made by a few...the people simply don't care or wish to get involved..."those who get involved usually end up dead" is the most common thought...and it is usually true.

So long as Israel doesn't try to abuse this relationship (they have in the past) things could go fairly well for them.
 
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Michie

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civilwarbuff

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...and Joe's point is Trump alone can't take credit for it.

I'll give Trump credit for convincing Netanyahu to give up (for now) claims to the West Bank.
You take the blame for failure then you get the credit for wins....that's how the game is played.
 
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JacksBratt

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childeye 2

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Let's stay on topic here, feel free to start a thread if you want to discuss this hashed over subject.
I believe it's on subject. Netanyahu has agreed to suspend declaring sovereignty for the moment at Trumps request, just like he requested that Zelensky investigate Biden and the 2016 election. You said that was not demonstrated so I gave you evidence that it was.
 
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civilwarbuff

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I believe it's on subject. Netanyahu has agreed to suspend declaring sovereignty for the moment at Trumps request, just like he requested that Zelensky investigate Biden and the 2016 election. You said that was not demonstrated so I gave you evidence that it was.
No, it is not. Please stick to the OP.
 
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Arcangl86

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This isn't going to make much of a difference I think. Any deal involving Palestine, but not involving Palestinians, is only going to heighten tensions. And it seems that the UAE is conditioning relations on Israel stopping settlements, which doesn't look likely.
 
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JohnDB

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This isn't going to make much of a difference I think. Any deal involving Palestine, but not involving Palestinians, is only going to heighten tensions. And it seems that the UAE is conditioning relations on Israel stopping settlements, which doesn't look likely.
An important note:
Israeli settlements only upsets the Palestinian Government officials. Not the average Palestinians on the streets.
Palestinian Gov't use the squalor of the streets to garner donations for the "people's plight as caused by the devils in Israel". Most of the money actually going into the pockets of the leadership.

The average citizen in Palestine love the settlements as they create jobs and commerce.
 
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Arcangl86

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An important note:
Israeli settlements only upsets the Palestinian Government officials. Not the average Palestinians on the streets.
Palestinian Gov't use the squalor of the streets to garner donations for the "people's plight as caused by the devils in Israel". Most of the money actually going into the pockets of the leadership.

The average citizen in Palestine love the settlements as they create jobs and commerce.
And you know this how?
 
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JohnDB

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And you know this how?

By actually going and talking to people. It's not hard.
I went to Israel a couple years back for a vacation after doing some missions work in Slovakia at their only Christian School.

I talked with young and old and various ages in between. We didn't go in a tour group so we kept a fairly open and relaxed schedule. (Air b&b rocks)
We went to various places that we were interested in seeing and asked questions and had regular conversation with people.

We talked with IDF soldiers and people just out and with Palestinians old and young alike. It's easy for us to cross the border as we are US citizens and tourists. Everyone knows we got money and no bombs or guns. And fairly easy to talk to. (Cab drivers are all petty criminals there though... didn't meet a single honest one... Even the sharut drivers)

Also...just remember that Pepto Bismal is a prescription drug there. Bring some with you when you go.
 
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Michie

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By actually going and talking to people. It's not hard.
I went to Israel a couple years back for a vacation after doing some missions work in Slovakia at their only Christian School.

I talked with young and old and various ages in between. We didn't go in a tour group so we kept a fairly open and relaxed schedule. (Air b&b rocks)
We went to various places that we were interested in seeing and asked questions and had regular conversation with people.

We talked with IDF soldiers and people just out and with Palestinians old and young alike. It's easy for us to cross the border as we are US citizens and tourists. Everyone knows we got money and no bombs or guns. And fairly easy to talk to. (Cab drivers are all petty criminals there though... didn't meet a single honest one... Even the sharut drivers)

Also...just remember that Pepto Bismal is a prescription drug there. Bring some with you when you go.

Why is that I wonder...
 
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JohnDB

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Why is that I wonder...
I have no idea...I just know that it took an expensive bribe to a sympathetic pharmacist to purchase the expensive stuff for my wife.

Maybe that's the reason...I have no clue. But yeah...it wasn't on the shelves anywhere and I was looking...so I asked and that's what I was told...by everyone I asked.
 
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DamianWarS

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He did play a part, to be fair, in a limited fashion. Kushner’s business orientated mindset seems to chime quite well with the more pragmatic Arab leaders in the region. Ironically for the most ardent Trumpists though most of the legwork appears to have been done by ‘deep state’ operative Brian Hook. The fantasists will always believe this is all just down to Trump however.

There does seem to be a bit of a growing divide between those in power in the ME who want to hold on to past grievances, and those who want to move forward. Wanting to avoid Palestinian annexation was a big motivator too, if that does go ahead then the agreement is likely to fail.
or maybe we should give accolades to Israel and UAE and leave it at that. Why suck everything into American (or Trump) vacuum?
 
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The Liturgist

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or maybe we should give accolades to Israel and UAE and leave it at that. Why suck everything into American (or Trump) vacuum?

Because according to our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ, if a third party brokers peace between two parties in a state of enmity with each other, the peacemaking third party, that third party has done a good thing. “Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called children of God.” (Matthew 5:9 KJV).

And such a divine exaltation is warranted, because in my experiencd at least, peacemaking is hard. I have two friends who fell out in 2011 and I still havent been able to reconcile them. :(
 
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JohnDB

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Because according to our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ, if a third party brokers peace between two parties in a state of enmity with each other, the peacemaking third party, that third party has done a good thing. “Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called children of God.” (Matthew 5:9 KJV).

And such a divine exaltation is warranted, because in my experiencd at least, peacemaking is hard. I have two friends who fell out in 2011 and I still havent been able to reconcile them. :(

Ummm
Kinda hate to burst your bubble here...

But when Jesus was talking about Peacemakers he was talking about peace between Men and God....
It isn't but a couple of chapters later Jesus is quoted as saying "I did not come to bring peace but a sword"

The whole thing about men being at peace with each other is a myth. Has never been true in all of history...and if there is peace it's temporary at best and usually is a period of preparation for war.
 
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The Liturgist

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An interesting development but from a Christian standpoint it's irrelevant. We're talking about two godless nations agreeing on some measure of peace and nothing more. The big question is how Iran will respond.

Actually its extremely relevant because a war in the Middle East endangers millions of Christians. Many Middle Eastern Christians are survivors of ISIS, or the Turkish genocide of 1915 and the ethnic cleansing that resulted from the Greco-Turkish population exchange in the 1920s and the Great Fire of Smyrna, and other historic persecutions dating back to the Fatimid Caliphate, including in Egypt 10 million Coptic Orthodox, 350,000 Alexandrian Greek Orthodox, roughly 300,000 other Christians; 1.6 million Maronite Catholics, Antiochian Orthodox and other Christians in Lebanon, 370,000 Christians in Iran, mostly Armenians and Assyrians; roughly 300,000 Christians in Turkey (and various historic landmarks of the Armenians, and the ancient center of the Syriac Orthodox Church in Tur Abdin, near the borders with Iran and Syria); 1.2 million Christians in Syria (possibly less due to the civil war and Iraq), chiefly Antiochian Orthodox, Syriac Orthodox, Melkite Greek Catholic and Syriac Catholic, with some Assyrians and Protestants; somewhere between 500,000 and a milion Iraqi Christians, mainly Syriac Orthodox, Chaldean Catholics, and Assyrians** due to ISIL’s conquest of the Nineveh Plains, the historic homeland of Assyrian Christians, and persecution of Christians by militias and insurgents after the Iraq War; about 230,000 Christians in Israel and Palestine, including Melkite Greek Catholics, predominantly Arab Christians in the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem, Armenian Orthodox and Syriac Orthodox, as well as virtually every other denomination in existence in at least small quantities due to the importance of the Holy Land to Christians, and finally 12.8% of the 8.8 million people living in the UAE are Christians of all denominations present in the Middle East, and many expatriate Americans and Europeans who attend churches that reflect their nationality (mainly Protestant and non-denominational).

The Christians of the Middle East in many cases represent the oldest continuing Christian churches in the world, with some worship traditions dating back to the 3rd and 4th century. The churches in the Middle East were in many cases founded by the Apostles (the Antiochian and Melkite Greek Catholic churches can trace their origin to St. Peter, who led the Christians in Antioch* before moving to Rome, the Coptic Orthodox, Coptic Catholic and Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria were founded by St. Mark the Evangelist, and the Syriac Orthodox Church, the Syriac Catholic and Chaldean Catholic churches, and the Assyrian Church of the East and Ancient Church of the East, trace their origin to St. Thomas the Apostle. Many other churches in Lebanon, Turkey and Cyprus were founded by St. Paul and St. John. The church in Jerusalem was re-established when the city was restored under Empress Helena following the Roman Empire becoming the third Christian country after the city state of Edessa and the Kingdom of Armenia in 314.

So, the Muslim rule of these countries means we have to pray for the Christians of these lands, given the history of persecution following the conquest of the Byzantine Empire and most other Christian states in the region (Armenia, South Sudan and Ethiopia are the only Christian majority countries in the larger region, and Lebanon is the only country where Christians represent a substantial portion of the country and have real political power). Brokering peace between Israel and the Arabic lands is of vital importance so that Christians aren’t caught in the crossfire.

*Antioch was also home to St. Ignatius the Martyr, a disciple of St. John the Apostle, who was bishop of Antioch until the Romans fed him to lions; his epistles to the churches he wrote en route to Rome to be killed, urging the Christians to not try to rescue him but to allow him to die for Christ, are considered by many to be the finest Ante Nicene Christian literature, and indeed, these epistles along with 1 Clement and the Epistle of Polycarp were considered for inclusion in the New Testament before the decision was taken to limit the New Testament to the first generation of Apostles.

** The Assyrians are members of one of two branches Church of the East, resulting from a schism in the 1970s; the Ancient Church of the East has around 70,000 members and historically used the Julian Calendar, and the Assyrian Church of the East has 400-500,000 members and switched to the Gregorian Calendar during the extremely controversial patriarchate of Catholicos Shimun XXI Eshai, whose actions basically triggered the schism. The two Assyrian churches are working on reunification. The Chaldean Catholics became a Sui Juris Eastern Catholic Church in stages in the 17th and 18th centuries due to a schism along tribal and linguistic lines; Assyrians still speak Syriac Aramaic as their main vernacular language, whereas Chaldeans mostly speak Arabic in thr vernacular, but still worship using Syriac. The Syriac Orthodox and Antiochian Orthodox have some small Syriac speaking minorities who use Aramaic Syriac dialects like Turoyo in the vernacular, but mostly speak Arabic; the Syriac Orthodox, Syriac Catholic, and to a much lesser extent, the Maronite Catholics, use Classical Syriac in worship services.
 
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