Peace and Safety: The Whole World Wants It

[Davy]

Davy, the 7 years are in Ezekiel 39 - 100% concrete. The confirming of the (Mt Sinai) covenant for 7 years requirement is in Deuteronomy 31:9-13. The Jews interpret the new covenant in Jeremiah 31:31 as a "renewal" of the Mt. Sinai covenant. You can't put those three things together?

Do some of the Jews realize the ten tribes never returned to this day and are to be gathered when Messiah comes? Yes, some Jewish scholars do believe this. But many of them do not, and consider the majority of the ten tribes are lost forever.

What today's Jews follow is mostly Talmudic teaching which is loosely Torah based. Their traditions have gotten in the way of doing all of what Moses told them, which is why our Lord Jesus rebuked the scribes and Pharisees concerning their traditions (Matt.15). Judaism is actually a newer religious movement that came out of the Jew's 70 years Babylon captivity. That is when many of the Canaanites began creeping into the house of God (Ezra 2; 8; 15; Nehemiah, Nethinims were the left-over peoples of the pagan nations of Canaan which Israel was not able to destroy).

Their belief that the new covenant of Jeremiah 31 is a renewal of the old covenant given through Moses exactly fits what the "vile person" of Daniel 11 is to do in Jerusalem in the last days:

(I don't really like the NIV because of the NT Alexandrian texts, but for Dan.9:27, it's better than the KJV):

Dan 9:26-27
27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing [of the temple] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."
NIV


Dan 11:21-37
21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.

This "vile person" is that one of the Dan.9:27 verse which will end the daily sacrifice and place that abomination idol to make the temple spiritually desolate. It's given further below starting in Dan.11:31. This "vile person" will "obtain the kingdom...", which means he will fulfill the role of a king in Jerusalem.


Dan.11:23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

That "league" he will make is that covenant of Dan.9:27 for seven years. That is the confirming of the old covenant by that small group of Jewish leaders in Jerusalem for the end (most likely the Jewish Sanhedrin in Jerusalem that has formed up again in our time). It's the covenant you're talking about that the deceived orthodox Jews believe Messiah will come to give. (But it is not... the REAL Jer.31 New Covenant, for those orthodox Jews still reject our Lord Jesus Christ today, and that's actually the Covenant God was pointing to in Jer.31, which I'm sure you are aware.)


Dan.11:28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.

The "vile person" will then begin to be against that holy covenant ("league" of verse 23) he made with the small group of Jews.


Dan.11:29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.
30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

At that time, the "vile person" will be against that old covenant renewal, and will have intelligence with the false Jews of the "synagogue of Satan" (ones Jesus called false Jews who say they are Jews, but do lie and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan' - Rev.2:9 & 3:9).


Dan.11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Then that "vile person" will spiritually pollute the new temple with substituting the daily sacrifice with an idol abomination placed in the temple, which is the "abomination of desolation" event Jesus warned us about for the end.

Laying the groundwork for a Third Temple in Jerusalem

 

[keras]

The net result of Matthew 23:39 Jesus is saying when he returns, they will welcome him with open arms. They will be Christians and their souls will be redeemed.

Unfortunately this belief contradicts many scriptures. Jesus Himself said: Bring those enemies of Mine who did not want Me for their King and slaughter them in My presence. Luke 19:27
And the Parable of the vineyard tenants is plain for all to understand. Plus all the OT prophesies, like Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 10:18, Zechariah 13:7-9 and Romans 9:27, + All make it quite clear that people who reject Jesus now, do not have a second chance. Remember that God does not have favorites.
You may say that for God to not save and redeem the Jews, He is reneging on His promises. Not so; He will save and protect Israel, as promised. Just NOT the ones who reject Him. Ezekiel 20:37-38

 

[God bless Joshua]

The world will yell "Peace and Safety" when the antichrist false Messiah is released with the 1st seal opening to make fake short Peace around the world, because the same devil is just behind all the wars.

 

[Emmy]

Dear Davy. Peace and Safety, what wonderful words, but sadly the world at large is NOT like it. In Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus gives us good advice. The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. The Bible tells us Love God with all thy hearts, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. That is straight forward. The second Commandment is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself. The Bible tells LOVE GOD with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. IN Matthew 7:7-10: we are told: give up all your selfish thoughts and wishes, Love God and your neighbour. Love is very catching and strong, Satan and his followers will run away from it. Remember that Love is very catching, and when we really ask God for LOVE, God will bless us and give us much love to share. Let us always remember, LOVE GOD, and love each other; do this and God will BLESS us. I say this with love, Davy. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[Douggg]

You seem misguided, the seven years in Ezekiel 39:9 is after... the fact of Christ's coming on the "day of the Lord". Don't you remember this will happen on that "day of the Lord"?

2 Peter 3:10
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
KJV

God's consuming fire on that "day of the Lord" when Jesus comes is what will have destroyed that northern army that's to come upon Israel at the end of this world.

And notice Ezek.39:12 reveals it's the "house of Israel" that will be burying that northern army's bones for seven months.

The "house of Israel" was taken captive out of the northern lands of Israel long ago by the kings of Assyria, and never returned (2 Kings 17-18); it's about the lost ten tribes of Israel. But there in Ezekiel 39:12, God is showing their having been gathered back to those northern lands. As of today, the majority of the old northern lands of Israel are inhabited by the sons of Ishmael per U.N. decree. And the majority of Israelites in today's nation state of Israel are either of the "house of Judah" (old southern kingdom of Jews) or of religious converts (like Idumeans and Khazars) who converted to Judaism.

That is why God then says this below in that 39th chapter. When you see "house of Israel", it means the northern ten tribes that dwelt in the northern lands of the old kingdom of Israel. God removed them out of the lands of Israel and captive by the Assyrians never to return. At Christ's coming they will be gathered back to those lands. When it says "Jacob" that's put for all 12 tribes.

Ezek 39:22-27
22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against Me, therefore hid I My face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid My face from them.

25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for My holy name;

26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.

27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
KJV

The battle of Armageddon in Rev.16 on the 7th vial is about the area in northern Israel called Meggido. That's what the "Armageddon" word in the NT is pointing to. That land area belonged to the ten tribes of Israel, i.e., the "house of Israel". The house of Israel is not gathered to the nation state of Israel yet, and won't be until Jesus comes. So these verses are all for after... Jesus' return. The cleansing of the northern lands of Israel is where the northern tribes will be marking spots of dead bones for seven months, and burning weapons for seven years.

Jacob is the entire 12 tribes.

Ezekiel 39:
25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

And in the middle part of the 7 years, 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes are sealed in Revelation 7.

Ezekiel 39:17-20 = Revelation 19:17-18

Ezekiel 39:21 = Psalms 2:8

Ezekiel 39:28 = Matthew 24:31

 

[Douggg]

Unfortunately this belief contradicts many scriptures. Jesus Himself said: Bring those enemies of Mine who did not want Me for their King and slaughter them in My presence. Luke 19:27
And the Parable of the vineyard tenants is plain for all to understand. Plus all the OT prophesies, like Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 10:18, Zechariah 13:7-9 and Romans 9:27, + All make it quite clear that people who reject Jesus now, do not have a second chance. Remember that God does not have favorites.
You may say that for God to not save and redeem the Jews, He is reneging on His promises. Not so; He will save and protect Israel, as promised. Just NOT the ones who reject Him. Ezekiel 20:37-38

What is your basis for saying Jews are any different as any other people as far as Salvation goes? They are going to accept Jesus in the middle of the 7 years. You are acting like God has it set that Israel is destined to not be saved.

God did not bring the Jews back to Israel, and Jerusalem back in the hands of the Jews - to destroy Israel and to cut it off from Salvation. Israel is going to be a Christian nation, made up of the 12 tribes of Israel.

 

[Davy]

Jacob is the entire 12 tribes.

Ezekiel 39:
25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

And in the middle part of the 7 years, 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes are sealed in Revelation 7.

Ezekiel 39:17-20 = Revelation 19:17-18

Ezekiel 39:21 = Psalms 2:8

Ezekiel 39:28 = Matthew 24:31

I mentioned that "Jacob" in Ezek.39 is put for all 12 tribes. You didn't read what all I wrote. The "house of Israel" title after God split old Israel into two separate kingdoms is about the ten northern tribes only (see 1 Kings 11 thru 2 Kings 17). God made Ezekiel a prophet to the "house of Israel" specifically, i.e., the ten tribes.

The Rev.7 144,000 that are sealed just before the tribulation is not what this Ezek.39 Scripture is about.

Jesus is going to gather all the tribes back to the lands promised to their fathers, and that is the timing of the Ezek.39:25 verse. It's for the day of Christ's coming and thereafter, not before the tribulation.

 

[Steve Petersen]

What is so bad about peace and safety?

 

[Davy]

What is so bad about peace and safety?

Exactly.

That is why it will deceive so much of the world. That because it won't be a real... peace and safety, but about as close to the real thing as one can get.

The real time of peace and safety is when Christ Jesus returns and begins His reign over all the earth with His elect.

So one is fake, and the other is real.

In Matthew 24:23-26, Jesus warned of a false one in Jerusalem coming to work great signs and wonders that if possible, would deceive even His very elect. What level of miracle working would it take to almost... deceive Christ's very elect who are already sealed?

The coming Antichrist will destroy many using peace...

Dan 8:25
25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
KJV

 

[Steve Petersen]

Exactly.

That is why it will deceive so much of the world. That because it won't be a real... peace and safety, but about as close to the real thing as one can get.

The real time of peace and safety is when Christ Jesus returns and begins His reign over all the earth with His elect.

So one is fake, and the other is real.

In Matthew 24:23-26, Jesus warned of a false one in Jerusalem coming to work great signs and wonders that if possible, would deceive even His very elect. What level of miracle working would it take to almost... deceive Christ's very elect who are already sealed?

The coming Antichrist will destroy many using peace...

Dan 8:25
25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
KJV

So we shouldn't strive for peace because it might get hijacked?

 

[Davy]

So we shouldn't strive for peace because it might get hijacked?

Of course we should strive for peace on earth.

Does that mean to believe it's possible for us to achieve true world peace without Christ being here to reign like God's Word says is required? No.

Even the wicked rulers of darkness of this world recognize the supreme reign is that of a monarch, because Satan, whom they serve, even wants to be God The King (Isa.14). That is exactly what the coming role of the Antichrist at the end of this world is about, for he will be a king in Jerusalem (Dan.11 about the "vile person", and Rev.17 about the 7th king).

Any believer on The Father and The Son should also believe His Word of Truth, and believe Holy Writ when it shows that true world peace and safety will not come unless Jesus Christ returns to take rule over all nations and peoples. For a believer to do otherwise is to put their trust in something else that will fail.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Any believer on The Father and The Son should also believe His Word of Truth, and believe Holy Writ when it shows that true world peace and safety will not come unless Jesus Christ returns to take rule over all nations and peoples. For a believer to do otherwise is to put their trust in something else that will fail.

Fine. I would be content with less than 'perfect' peace if it was an improvement on the current situation.

 

[Davy]

Keras, I can understand that. You misunderstood. I am just informing okay? I am not agreeing their view(s) about the Noahide religion. But what I am saying is the rabbi's are already preparing for the falling away from Christianity according to what they believe is coming - because of the arrival of their "real" messiah.


plain historical events? Keras, this is end times bible prophecy, not a historical review.
.

You forget that Jesus warned about that coming false messiah the deceived Jews will believe is the real Messiah. If rabbi accept that as the prophesied Messiah, then deceived Christian pastors will also accept that one as our Lord Jesus. And that was our Lord's point of warning in Matt.24:23-26.

 

[Davy]

Fine. I would be content with less than 'perfect' peace if it was an improvement on the current situation.

I would too, until Jesus returns; but I believe what my Heavenly Father and His Son has foretold us. Real peace on earth for all will not be possible until Christ Jesus returns and takes rule.

The "Peace and safety" Apostle Paul foretold of is what the deceived will be saying for the future time of great tribulation. It will not be a time of tribulation for them, because they will have believed Messiah has come, and true peace and safety has come. That's Paul's point, because he was equating their "Peace and safety" attitude with being spiritually asleep, drunken in the night, i.e., in spiritual darkness. And that because they are not aware of the "sudden destruction" that will soon come with Jesus' return.

1 Thess 5:4-7
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
KJV

 

[Steve Petersen]

I would too, until Jesus returns; but I believe what my Heavenly Father and His Son has foretold us. Real peace on earth for all will not be possible until Christ Jesus returns and takes rule.

The "Peace and safety" Apostle Paul foretold of is what the deceived will be saying for the future time of great tribulation. It will not be a time of tribulation for them, because they will have believed Messiah has come, and true peace and safety has come. That's Paul's point, because he was equating their "Peace and safety" attitude with being spiritually asleep, drunken in the night, i.e., in spiritual darkness. And that because they are not aware of the "sudden destruction" that will soon come with Jesus' return.

1 Thess 5:4-7
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
KJV

"Always you looked to the future. Never your mind on where you were, on what you were doing." - Yoda

 

[Davy]

"Always you looked to the future. Never your mind on where you were, on what you were doing." - Yoda

Those who put their faith in this "one world government" being setup today in our time are going to have to learn a grave lesson on what real peace and safety is. That lesson will begin with Christ's 2nd coming, and that was Apostle Paul's point in 1 Thessalonians 5.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Those who put their faith in this "one world government" being setup today in our time are going to have to learn a grave lesson on what real peace and safety is. That lesson will begin with Christ's 2nd coming, and that was Apostle Paul's point in 1 Thessalonians 5.

I think you missed the point of my previous post. Why fret about some unknown time if the future and neglect opportunities for a better peace here and now?

 

[Davy]

I think you missed the point of my previous post. Why fret about some unknown time if the future and neglect opportunities for a better peace here and now?

Because it all goes back to how the devil... tempted Adam and Eve in God's Garden, telling them that they... can become their own gods.

When anyone thinks they don't need our Heavenly Father and His Son, and instead can go it alone, and create their own little world, those are the types Apostle Paul was pointing to that are 'drunken in the night', spiritually, and are in darkness, spiritually, not understanding the powers on earth vs. God's Power and Authority.

You can start in Genesis 1 and read all the way to the end of Revelation 22 and discover what our Heavenly Father and His Son approves of, and what He doesn't. Following one's own self as if they could be their own god, is not something He approves of, as He will not give His Glory to another, as written.

Many in the world today don't believe GOD exists, because they take for granted the things He has done for them, and they don't know Him, so He goes afar off from them. But at Christ's return, everyone... will see Him and know Who He is. There will be no denying Who He is when that happens. The Big Contrast, it's coming. So let those who think they can create their own "Peace and safety" on earth believe He doesn't see it and won't do anything about it. Like Paul said, then "sudden destruction" will come upon them (1 Thess.5).

 

[keras]

What is your basis for saying Jews are any different as any other people as far as Salvation goes? They are going to accept Jesus in the middle of the 7 years. You are acting like God has it set that Israel is destined to not be saved.

God did not bring the Jews back to Israel, and Jerusalem back in the hands of the Jews - to destroy Israel and to cut it off from Salvation. Israel is going to be a Christian nation, made up of the 12 tribes of Israel.

Talking with you is like shouting into the Grand Canyon. What comes back is total confusion!

I never said that there won't be any Jews saved. Obviously there are Messianic Jews; at least 12,000 of them.
But your Dipsy idea of their general redemption, is impossible because as Zechariah 13:7-9 and many other prophesies tells us: most will die during the Day of the Lord's wrath.
Note: that Ezekiel 21:1-7 says the Lord will do away with the righteous and wicked alike.

The truths of the many prophesies about the fate of Judah, precludes any thought of their general redemption. They will be gone; Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 10:18, Zephaniah 1:18

 

[Douggg]

Talking with you is like shouting into the Grand Canyon. What comes back is total confusion!

The confusion is the echo of your own voice... I appreciate the comment just the same, as indication of your frustration, likewise I am sure.

I never said that there won't be any Jews saved. Obviously there are Messianic Jews; at least 12,000 of them.
But your Dipsy idea of their general redemption, is impossible because as Zechariah 13:7-9 and many other prophesies tells us: most will die during the Day of the Lord's wrath.
Note: that Ezekiel 21:1-7 says the Lord will do away with the righteous and wicked alike.

I am not a dispensationalist. I think I might change my profile from "non-denominational" to "non-dispensationalist".

Keras, you are taking the Ezekiel 21:1-7 passage out of the Tanach which was intended for the generation that was about to go into the Babylon captivity - and making it a status for the Jews forever. So that one can be ignored.

Zechariah 13:7-9, on the other hand, is end times and indicates that two thirds of Israel will be killed during the great tribulation, and one third will survive it.

The truths of the many prophesies about the fate of Judah, precludes any thought of their general redemption. They will be gone; Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 10:18, Zephaniah 1:18

Those passages are intended for that generation which was about to go into Babylonian captivity.