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Featured Peace and Safety: The Whole World Wants It

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Davy, Jan 13, 2018.

  1. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    In 1 Thessalonians 5, right after Apostle Paul had outlined the events of Christ's future return and gathering of His Church, he then pointed to a specific time on earth when the deceived will say, "Peace and safety":

    1 Thess 5:1-7
    5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

    2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

    3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

    Do you recall our Lord Jesus foretold for the end that we'd hear of wars and rumors of wars, but to not be troubled, because the end is not yet? (see Mark 13:7).


    What kind of time on earth would it be when all... wars have ended? and has it happened yet?

    We know it has not happened yet, not ever. With WWI one of the popular sayings was, "the war to end all wars". It didn't. But it got globalist one-world government groups like the League of Nations going. World War II gave the U.N. more inertia towards a one-world government over the whole earth. Their system is still not complete yet, but they are still working towards it, don't be deceived about that, they will accomplish it, because God has already shown us in His Word. That's the "Peace and safety" Paul was speaking of.

    When all wars have ended, it means only one... power in the world to create war will exist. It means all... nations and peoples being subservient under the one power, either willingly or unwillingly. With one who can work great signs and wonders and miracles like our Lord Jesus, could that contribute to the whole world working together to make that "Peace and safety" really happen? Yes. There are deceived Christian brethren that are on the plan for a "one world government", and are busily helping to bring it. Why? Because they see it as a good thing. I mean, no more war, everybody has work and food to eat, most disease is eradicated (miracles by false Christ, remember?), basically all our debts paid off, a chicken in every pot!

    That is actually the kind of time the "Peace and safety" is about. In Rev.11 when God's two witnesses appear in Jerusalem, they are going to disrupt the world's peace and safety a bit, and when the two witnesses are killed, the world is going to send each other gifts as written there, having a party because the two witnesses that tormented them are dead. "Peace and safety" again, they think. Peace, peace and there is no peace, like the OT prophets said.

    That short time of "Peace and safety" will end with the "sudden destruction" that's to occur on the "day of the Lord" according to Apostle Paul. In 2 Peter 3:10, Peter explained that God's consuming fire will burn man's works off the earth on that "day of the Lord".


    So if you hear some of today's preachers preach how the coming tribulation period is going to be a time of all out chaos, total war, death and destruction, it won't be for those who will be saying, "Peace and safety', because that's exactly the kind of time they will think it is, a time when all wars have ended, so it's very safe and world peace has finally come. Would the coming of our Lord Jesus back to earth to reign over all nations create a time of true world peace on earth? Believe it or not, no; that because Zech.14 which shows us His return with the wicked still with us, some will still rebel and refuse to come up to Jerusalem from year to year to worship The King, The Lord of Hosts. So what kind of false one coming would make the deceived actually believe world peace and safety has come?


    4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

    5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

    6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

    7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
    KJV


    The deceived who will be saying the "Peace and safety" will be like someone who is drunk at night. That's an expression for someone who is so enthralled by the world peace and safety that they don't have a clue of the spiritual sleep they are in.

    For the deceived things are going to be good in that time. For those in Christ, some of us will be delivered up to give a Testimony for Jesus.
     
  2. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Member Supporter

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    Davy, so you started this new thread because you are trying to stay relevant with your doctrine on "peace and safety" after I have refuted your position on other thread just now? :rolleyes: Sounds like you are grasping at straws for support of your position that has been proved wrong.
     
  3. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    It seems that there may soon be an agreement between Israel and the Palestinians.
    The Saudi's will enforce it with the PLO; sign or we cut your funding!

    This will lead people to say: Peace and safety at last!
    But of course, this will in no way change the intent of the Islamic peoples, esp Iran, to 'wipe the cancer of Israel off the map'. They will attempt it, their driving force; Satan, will make them try it.
    Then, as Paul prophesies: sudden destruction will be upon them. 1 Thessalonians 5:3
    This unexpected and shocking devastation is well prophesied in the Bible, as the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath. A Day of fire, earthquakes, storms and tsunamis, triggered by the start of an attack upon Israel. Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 50:1-2, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Isaiah 66:15-17, +
     
  4. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Davy, your eschatology growth would take a big leap up - if you were to try and understand what the Jews believe, expect, of the messianic age and the messiah. The reason is - is that they are going to be in the center of the events forth coming.

    Have you ever heard of the Rambam?
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  5. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Keras, what are the two requirements for the Day of the Lord to begin in 2Thessalonians2 ?

    Which one of the two - would indicate a time of peace and safety? The first one right - the falling away in Christianity from believing in Jesus. So if droves of Christians move away from Jesus at that time - they must be thinking at that time someone else is the messiah, right?

    Keras, have you ever heard of a thing called Noahides? And who pushes that movement?
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  6. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    There are quite a few requirements that must happen before the great and terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath.
    We await the appearance of Elijah, or someone in the power of Elijah. Malachi 4:5
    The State of Israel will lose its good leaders, esp Netanyahu. Isaiah 3:1-7
    As for the falling away; that started 100 years ago and is surely the case now.

    I don't see any false Messiah in the last few years. The Anti-Christ person will demand worship, in the same way as the Roman Emperor's did.

    I have heard of Noahides. How is it important to us?
     
  7. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The Noahide movement is in important, because the rabbi's have already accounted for when Christians begin leaving Christianity - when their "real" messiah arrives.

    You may not be aware, but anyone who wants to convert to Judaism and become a Jew by choice as the rabbi's say - any conversion has to be done before the messiah comes. Afterward, no one will be allowed to convert to Judaism. The alternative they have provided will be to become a Noahide.

    Noahidism is a umbrella religion of sorts based on what the rabbi's have come up with as 7 laws God gave Noah after the flood for mankind to follow.

    One of the requirements according to the rabbi's to be a Noahide a person had to believe in a one God. Which that disqualifies Christianity in Judaism's simplistic view of One, and not the trinity One. Under the Noahide rules, a muslim for example could retain his core muslim beliefs in "Allah" for example because they reject the trinity, and be considered a noahide.

    Noahidism is simply a form of Judaism for non-Jews, but based on the 7 laws they have codified from backed in Genesis as being the Noahide covenant - a sort of equivalent to the Mt. Sinai covenant and the ten commandments..
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  8. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    No false messiah for the second half of the seven years. The false messiah part is during most of the first half of the seven years.

    The person will actually no longer be in the role of being the Antichrist when he is worshiped during that second half of the seven years.

    This is strange for many to hear - because of their concept of the Antichrist. They view the Antichrist as being the evil dictator in Revelation 13, that everyone must worship or else.

    The Antichrist, however, is simply the person forthcoming, from Europe, who the Jews will mistakenly embrace as their messiah King of Israel. The person will also think of himself to be the messiah and will play the part. But the person has some serious personality flaws. First and foremost a huge ego. And he delves into the Kabbalah to get help from the angels in achieving his goals. Which will open him up to manipulation by Satan.

    Satan will eventually convince the person, that he has achieved God hood. Which Satan then enters him to carry out the transgression act in 2thessalonians2:4. Which of course you could see how the Jews will be mortified by that act - and will disown the person as being their King of Israel.

    That ends his time as the Antichrist, false messiah, near the middle of the seven years. We don't know on exactly what day - as the Day of the Lord, comes up on them like a thief - totally unexpected that their messiah King of Israel would do such a thing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  9. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The orthodox Jews don't believe Jesus of Nazareth is The Christ (Messiah). The majority of them rejected Him because of the blindness God put upon them so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles, and the Gentiles would believe. The children of those orthodox Jews today still reject Christ Jesus today, and many of them don't even care about Jewish traditions involving The Messiah.

    Like Jesus showed us, the Antichrist/pseudo-Christ is coming to Jerusalem first, and him they will believe on, along with the majority of the whole world.

    Rev 13:8
    8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    KJV
     
  10. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Davy, you need more than just that overview. You need to take some time and go to their websites like Judaism 101.org, or videos, and find out what they are expecting of the messiah - that is, what he is supposed to do, and also their views on Ezekiel 39 and Zechariah 14.

    An understanding of what their views and expectations are - and from what is in the text of Ezekiel 39, separate from their views, is that the 7 years, 70th week will immediately follow Gog/Magog.

    It is as firm as anything we can stand on in the realm of eschatology. The Gog feast is in Ezekiel 39:4. And 7 years later is the Armageddon feast is in Ezekiel 39:17-20.
     
  11. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    I care zip for what any Rabbi thinks or says.
    As a Christian; please explain why you do.
    We believe that because it is what Daniel and Revelation tell us will be the case.
    We reject your Messiah from the European Union, as plain historical events and the present situation shows that idea to be false.

    Thanks Davy, your post #is good, but the Anti-Christ leader of the One World Govt does not come to Jerusalem until the first 3.5 years of his peace agreement with Beulah, the new nation of Christians in all of the holy Land, is over. He conquers them; Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7, but as Revelation 12:14 says, those Christians who keep faithful to God, will be taken to a place of safety for the last 3.5 years before Jesus Returns.
     
  12. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Keras, I can understand that. You misunderstood. I am just informing okay? I am not agreeing their view(s) about the Noahide religion. But what I am saying is the rabbi's are already preparing for the falling away from Christianity according to what they believe is coming - because of the arrival of their "real" messiah.
    plain historical events? Keras, this is end times bible prophecy, not a historical review.
    .
     
  13. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You obviously mean what the religious Jews expect, because a great many of them aren't even interested in their religious roots.

    And you think the orthodox Pharisees (for they still exist today, and have formed another Sanhedrin in Jerusalem) actually even know what's going to happen? Why would you even think about following their advice about Messiah?

    Of course they expect the coming of Messiah, and that he will be born... of Israel. (I know that's what you're trying to point me to.) I'm well aware of the son of David requirement.
     
  14. Steve Petersen

    Steve Petersen Senior Veteran

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    It is quite amusing watching a bunch of Christians pontificate on Jewish beliefs and motives.
     
  15. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    As the Jews are the visible entity of Israel at present and the true Israel of God is hidden, it is a very valid discussion subject.
    What I find disturbing, is the blindness of most Christians to God's plans and purposes regarding His Israelite people. Who are people as many as the sands of the sea, that is: far more than just the Jewish people.
    And as the Jews are 99% not as God wants His people to be, then there must be a dramatic correction coming up soon! This is well prophesied throughout the Bible, but the Satanic lie of the 'rapture to heaven', has confused the issue.
    Thinking that God is going to redeem and forgive anyone who rejects His Son, is totally contrary to Bible teachings.
     
  16. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Davy, the 7 years are in Ezekiel 39 - 100% concrete. The confirming of the (Mt Sinai) covenant for 7 years requirement is in Deuteronomy 31:9-13. The Jews interpret the new covenant in Jeremiah 31:31 as a "renewal" of the Mt. Sinai covenant. You can't put those three things together?
     
  17. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    That's right. That's what's going to happen. After the Jews are betrayed by the Antichrist, thinking is the messiah for a short time.

    The Jews and Jerusalem are going to embrace Jesus and receive Salvation... before Jesus returns.
     
  18. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    This is what's going to happen:
    Isaiah 28:22b ....For I have heard that destruction is decreed upon the whole Land.

    Isaiah 10:23 For the Lord of Hosts will bring final destruction on the whole Land.

    Ezekiel 20:47 The Lord says: I am about to kindle a fire, one that will consume anything flammable. All of the Land and people from the Negev northward will be scorched by it.

    Ezekiel 21:4 It is because I intend to make away with both righteous and wicked alike, that My sword of punishment is against everyone from the Negev northward.

    Jeremiah 22:6-7 The Lord says about the Royal House of Judah: Though you are dear to Me, I swear that I shall turn your Land into a desert; a Land of towns no longer inhabited. A destructive host will come upon you and burn your dwellings.

    Jeremiah 21:14 I shall punish you as you deserve, I shall set fire to your open Land, it will devour everything round about.

    Hosea 4:3 Therefore the Land will be desolate, all that lives in it will be wasted, even the wild animals, birds and the fish of the sea will vanish.

    Jeremiah 7:34 From the towns of Judah and the streets of Jerusalem, I shall banish all sounds of joy and gladness, for the whole Land will become a desert.

    Zephaniah 1:18 On the Day of the Lord’s wrath, by the fire of His jealousy, the whole Land will be consumed, for He will make a sudden and terrible end to all who live in the Land.

    Micah 1:6 I shall reduce Samaria to a ruin, to a place for planting vineyards. I will level the hills and valleys; lay bare their foundations.

    Micah 5:11 I shall devastate the cities of your Land and destroy your military power.

    Amos 6:11 When the Lord commands, great houses will be reduced to rubble and the small houses shattered.

    Jeremiah 8:16 The sound of the Destroyer approaches and the whole Land trembles, it comes and consumes everything, crops, trees, city and citizens alike.

    Joel 1:15-20 The Day of the Lord comes; a mighty destruction from the Almighty, all food is cut off, the Land is shriveled and dry, for fire has consumed the pastures and every tree is burned up.
    Jeremiah 25:38 The Land has become a waste and ruined because of the fierce anger of the Lord.

    Jeremiah 10:19 The Land says: O the pain of my wounds, I have suffered cruel injuries and am laid low, but I must endure it, because the shepherds of the people are fools and never consult the Lord; so their flock is scattered.

    Jeremiah 9:10 I shall chant a dirge over the mountains and pastures, for all is scorched and untrodden, I hear no sound of livestock, even the birds have fled and gone.

    Jeremiah 4:26-28 The fertile Land has become a wilderness, its towns all razed to the ground before the fierce anger of the Lord. The Lord says: the whole Land will be desolate, totally destroyed. All the earth will be in mourning for this and the sky will be black. For now I have made known My purpose, I will not relent or change it.

    Isaiah 32:12 Go into mourning for your pleasant fields and fruitful Land; for every happy home in the bustling city. Houses are forsaken and the streets are deserted.

    Isaiah 33:8a-9 The roads are deserted, the Land is parched and dry. Lebanon is dried out, Sharon is like a desert and Bashan and Gilead are stripped bare.

    Isaiah 24:10 & 13 The city is shattered and in chaos....all joy and merriment has gone from the Land. Nothing but desolation is left and the entrances to the city are smashed.

    Jeremiah 12:4 &10-13 How long must the country lie parched, its grass withered? No birds or beasts are left, because God has judged the wicked inhabitants, they said: God does not see what we are doing. A sword from the Lord has devoured the Land from end to end and now it’s all a desolate wilderness. Ref: REB, NIV, KJV. Some verses abridged.
    I want to see the scripture that says there will be a general redemption of the Jews.
     
  19. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Matthew 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

    Jesus followers, Jews, had already used that phrase when he entered Jerusalem.

    John 12:
    12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,
    13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

    In Matthew 23, the religious leaders, the worthless shepherds worked to turn the people against Jesus, and in the worthless shepherds' treachery had Jesus crucified.

    The net result of Matthew 23:39 Jesus is saying when he returns, they will welcome him with open arms. They will be Christians and their souls will be redeemed.

    And when they become Christians is in Revelation 12. After the two witnesses are killed, ending the 1260 days, and ascend, and the 7th trumpet blows, and the war in heaven takes place and Satan cast down, it says...

    10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation [to the Jews, Israel], and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

    And

    17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    At the end of the great tribulation, Jesus returns to the Mt. of Olives, in Zechariah 14, and rescues the Jews there in Jerusalem.
     
  20. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You seem misguided, the seven years in Ezekiel 39:9 is after... the fact of Christ's coming on the "day of the Lord". Don't you remember this will happen on that "day of the Lord"?

    2 Peter 3:10
    10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

    KJV

    God's consuming fire on that "day of the Lord" when Jesus comes is what will have destroyed that northern army that's to come upon Israel at the end of this world.

    And notice Ezek.39:12 reveals it's the "house of Israel" that will be burying that northern army's bones for seven months.

    The "house of Israel" was taken captive out of the northern lands of Israel long ago by the kings of Assyria, and never returned (2 Kings 17-18); it's about the lost ten tribes of Israel. But there in Ezekiel 39:12, God is showing their having been gathered back to those northern lands. As of today, the majority of the old northern lands of Israel are inhabited by the sons of Ishmael per U.N. decree. And the majority of Israelites in today's nation state of Israel are either of the "house of Judah" (old southern kingdom of Jews) or of religious converts (like Idumeans and Khazars) who converted to Judaism.

    That is why God then says this below in that 39th chapter. When you see "house of Israel", it means the northern ten tribes that dwelt in the northern lands of the old kingdom of Israel. God removed them out of the lands of Israel and captive by the Assyrians never to return. At Christ's coming they will be gathered back to those lands. When it says "Jacob" that's put for all 12 tribes.

    Ezek 39:22-27
    22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.


    23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against Me, therefore hid I My face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.


    24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid My face from them.

    25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for My holy name;


    26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.

    27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

    KJV

    The battle of Armageddon in Rev.16 on the 7th vial is about the area in northern Israel called Meggido. That's what the "Armageddon" word in the NT is pointing to. That land area belonged to the ten tribes of Israel, i.e., the "house of Israel". The house of Israel is not gathered to the nation state of Israel yet, and won't be until Jesus comes. So these verses are all for after... Jesus' return. The cleansing of the northern lands of Israel is where the northern tribes will be marking spots of dead bones for seven months, and burning weapons for seven years.
     
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