Paul Teaches from the TaNaK: Romans 1

HIM

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Paul was speaking specifically to the Saints. We are reading someone else's personal mail in this letter. It wasn't addressed to all of Rome, nor even to the Ger Toshav in Rome. It was addressed to the Saints. These were kadosh men of YHWH.

7 to all who are in Rome, beloved by God, called saints
First off the very version you used here states "all who are in Rome". All means all.

Secondly to further that Paul called them Gentiles by saying that he purpose to come unto them to have fruit among them as he had among OTHER Gentiles in verse 13. In saying that he relates them to the Greek and the Barbarians, in saying that he is ready to preach the Gospel to them in Rome also.

Which begs the question in whether or not they had the Gospel preached to them yet since he had not preached it to them and thought it urgent to do so.


Rom 1:13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
Rom 1:14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
Rom 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
 
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HARK!

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First off the very version you used here states "all who are in Rome". All means all.

Not when "all" is qualified. This letter was not written to Caesar.

In order to understand what was being said; we need to read the whole sentence.

Watch what happens when I butcher the sentence.

7 to ...who ...God, called saints:

That greatly changes the intent of the author; does it not?
 
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HARK!

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Secondly to further that Paul called them Gentiles by saying that he purpose to come unto them to have fruit among them as he had among OTHER Gentiles in verse 13. In saying that he relates them to the Greek and the Barbarians, in saying that he is ready to preach the Gospel to them in Rome also.

Let's look at this carefully.

11 For I am longing to see you,

He's talking to the Saints. We covered this already.

that I may be sharing some spiritual grace with you, for you to be established:

Again the Saints.


12 yet this is to be consoled together among you through one another's faith, both yours and mine.

Again the Saints.

13 Now I do not want you

Again the Saints.

to be ignorant, brethren, that often I purposed to come to you (and was prevented hitherto)

Again the Saints.


that I should be having some fruit

The subject here is fruit, not the Saints. It's Paul's fruit.


among you

Paul's fruit among the Saints

also, according as among the rest of the nations.

Paul seeks fruit also among the rest of the nations, not the Saints that this personal letter was addressed to. He already has fruit in the Saints.

14 To both Greeks and barbarians, to both wise and foolish, a debtor am I.

These are not the Saints, who the letter was addressed to; but Paul is seeking fruit among all men.

Many are called; but few are chosen.
 
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HIM

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Not when "all" is qualified. This letter was not written to Caesar.

In order to understand what was being said; we need to read the whole sentence.

Watch what happens when I butcher the sentence.

7 to ...who ...God, called saints:

That greatly changes the intent of the author; does it not?
I scarce to bring this up.

Called is invited. Here are the NET notes on the Greek word
Pronunciation: klay-tos'
Definition: 1) called, invited (to a banquet) 1a) invited (by God in the proclamation of the Gospel) to obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom through Christ 1b) called to (the discharge of) some office 1b1) divinely selected and appointed
from the same as 2821; invited, i.e. appointed, or (specially), a saint:-called. see GREEK for 2821



Here is the BDAG citation on the Greek word klaytos.

κλητός, ή, όν (s. καλέω; Hom.; Aeschin. 2, 162; Aelian, NA 11, 12; PAmh 79, 5; LXX; Hippol., Ref. 5, 6, 7) pert. to being invited, called, invited to a meal (3 Km 1:41, 49; 3 Macc 5:14) in imagery of invitation to the kgdm. of God Mt 22:14 (=B 4:14); cp. 20:16 v.l.—Also without the figure consciously in the background called to God’s kgdm. κ. ἅγιοι saints who are called (by God) Ro 1:7;

The Greek word Hagios is translated saints. It is in the Dative case. Because it is in the Dative case and the Word translated called means invited a lot of translations translate the clause Called to be saints. NOT that they are saints they are called to be saints.
 
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HARK!

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Peter indicated Pauls epistles were scripture and the gospels must surely be considered scripture so the principle certainly applys to New Testament books.

I'm not familiar with where Peter called Paul's letters scripture. Would you post that verse?

Paul didn't call his personal letters scripture. He was referring to the TaNaK.

The canon of the New Testament is the set of books many Christians regard as divinely inspired and constituting the New Testament of the Christian Bible. For most, it is an agreed-upon list of twenty-seven books[1] that includes the canonical Gospels, Acts, letters attributed to various apostles, and Revelation, though there are many textual variations. The books of the canon of the New Testament were written before 120 AD.[1]

For the Orthodox, the recognition of these writings as authoritative was formalized in the Second Council of Trullan of 692.

Development of the New Testament canon - Wikipedia
 
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HARK!

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2 Peter 3 , by implication,

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Ah yes. How could such a memorable verse have slipped my mind?
 
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HARK!

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I dunno you should be more careful. You won`t get away with a mistake in a place like this.

Well maybe next time someone will remember to post the scripture that they are quoting; as most of us don't have the entire Bible memorized, like Yahshua.

Until I'm just like him; there is an outside chance that I could potentially have to expect that there may be an ever so slight possibility that I might not be absolutely perfect.

Thanks for this insightful tip. Do you have any tips for walking on water?
 
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Ok Pal I`m gonna tell the mod hatter you did that :smilingimp:

I am the mod hatter; but it might slip my mind. Again, I'm not perfect.

That was fun; but we should get back on topic now.
 
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HIM

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Let's look at this carefull


that I should be having some fruit

The subject here is fruit, not the Saints. It's Paul's fruit.


among you

Paul's fruit among the Saints

also, according as among the rest of the nations.

Paul seeks fruit also among the rest of the nations, not the Saints that this personal letter was addressed to. He already has fruit in the Saints.

14 To both Greeks and barbarians, to both wise and foolish, a debtor am I.

These are not the Saints, who the letter was addressed to; but Paul is seeking fruit among all men.

Many are called; but few are chosen.
Let's be careful.
Verse 13 is pretty clear.
In all fairness I will just use the version you provided. Let's start here....


"that I should be having some fruit among (in) you also,"


The word among in the Greek is en. It basically means "in". Please notice also the comma after the word also. The grammar mandates this. It is part of that clause.
With that The word also and should dictate that Paul does not have fruit among those to whom he is speaking. But does have fruit just as or according as among (in) the rest (other) the nations.

Let's continue shall we....

"according as among (in) the rest of the nations"

"According as" is translated from the Greek word Kathros. It means just as. The word also in the previous clause we spoke of also gives the implication that those to whom he speaks of in respect being the rest of the nations have fruit already (also).

Let's put it altogether now shall we.

"that I should be having some fruit among (in) you also, according (EVEN AS) as among (in) the rest of the nations


Actually with what was shared above in relation to the grammar, this would bring us to the conclusion that verse seven must be translated "called to be saints" as was previously shared not called. Here is that post again for your review.


Called is invited. Here are the NET notes on the Greek word
Pronunciation: klay-tos'
Definition: 1) called, invited (to a banquet) 1a) invited (by God in the proclamation of the Gospel) to obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom through Christ 1b) called to (the discharge of) some office 1b1) divinely selected and appointed
from the same as 2821; invited, i.e. appointed, or (specially), a saint:-called. see GREEK for 2821



Here is the BDAG citation on the Greek word klaytos.

κλητός, ή, όν (s. καλέω; Hom.; Aeschin. 2, 162; Aelian, NA 11, 12; PAmh 79, 5; LXX; Hippol., Ref. 5, 6, 7) pert. to being invited, called, invited to a meal (3 Km 1:41, 49; 3 Macc 5:14) in imagery of invitation to the kgdm. of God Mt 22:14 (=B 4:14); cp. 20:16 v.l.—Also without the figure consciously in the background called to God’s kgdm. κ. ἅγιοι saints who are called (by God) Ro 1:7;

The Greek word Hagios is translated saints. It is in the Dative case. Because it is in the Dative case and the Word translated called means invited a lot of translations translate the clause Called to be saints. NOT that they are saints they are called to be saints.
 
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