Paul Reveals the timing of Revelation 20

BABerean2

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Yes breaks the pots. Literally kills off all of Adam's descendants. This is before the last Millennium, not the 1st century, 1900 years ago. God did not reset the earth in the 1st century.

I never said God did any reset of the earth during the 1st century...

The future reset is found in 2 Peter 3:10-13, on the day of the Lord, when He comes as a thief.


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jerry kelso

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You are ignoring the other verses I gave at the start which prove chapter 20 is full of symbolic language.

Can a demonic spirit be bound with a literal chain, based on the scripture below?

Mar 5:1 And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.
Mar 5:2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
Mar 5:3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:
Mar 5:4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.


I will ask the question again.

Do you think Paul was confused in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1?

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baberean2,

1. The demoniac couldn’t be bound by human chains. That is different than God’s chains for Satan such as in Revelation 20 for he is an angel.
There are angels bound in everlasting chains in Jude 1:6. These are chains made by God not humans.
Satan will be bound by God with Chains not humans.
There is no comparison between the two unless you think God isn’t capable of such a thing then you might as well believe Satan has more power than God because he can withstand God.
Your reasoning has no sane basis for not literal chains being able to bind the Devil.

2. The term 1000 can be symbolic in God’s sight because of how he looks at time since he is not bound at time.
It is literal because the language is literal of the period Satan is bound and then loosed for a little season at the end of the 1000 years to gather the armies at the last battle of Gog and Magog in which God throws down fire from Heaven and destroys those armies v7-10 in which Satan is then thrown into the Lake of fire where the Beast and the false prophet are.
They were there at the end of tribulation in Revelation 19 which was before the 1000 years and still there a 1000 years later when Satan was thrown in with them.

3. I’ll stop here for you to sort out your confusion on this point. Jerry Kelso
 
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Timtofly

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I never said God did any reset of the earth during the 1st century...

The future reset is found in 2 Peter 3:10-13, on the day of the Lord, when He comes as a thief.

That day of the Lord is the next Millennium. The Lamb is coming to earth in the 6th seal. The reset is the battle of Armageddon. So what is the point in denying the next 1000 years is literally going to happen?
 
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BABerean2

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So what is the point in denying the next 1000 years is literally going to happen?


Are the passages below found in your Bible, or do you ignore them to make the Premill doctrine work?


2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;


Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.



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shilohsfoal

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I answered that question as you posed it to me and you have not replied. Your assuming that the great white throne judgment is the only judgment going on in these days. Seems clear that there is a 1000 year gap between the 2nd coming in judgment and the Ressurection of the just and the separating the sheep and goats as the survivors of the tribulation will be sifted. The saint live and reign with Jesus and the rest of the dead do not live again until the 1000 years is over and this is the great white throne judgment.

I did not send that message to you.
That message was to BABerean2.
I just checked all posts quoting me back to Tuesday and I don't see any from you.
Where is the message I quoted you at?
 
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Timtofly

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Are the passages below found in your Bible, or do you ignore them to make the Premill doctrine work?
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Do you deny them to make Revelation 20 dissappear in a puff of imagination?

His Coming on that day for His kingdom, is mentioned in Revelation 20.
 
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shilohsfoal

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I answered that question as you posed it to me and you have not replied. Your assuming that the great white throne judgment is the only judgment going on in these days. Seems clear that there is a 1000 year gap between the 2nd coming in judgment and the Ressurection of the just and the separating the sheep and goats as the survivors of the tribulation will be sifted. The saint live and reign with Jesus and the rest of the dead do not live again until the 1000 years is over and this is the great white throne judgment.

I think maybe you got me mixed up with someone else? I agree with the 1000 year reign between the first resurrection and the last.
I agree with everything in Revelation 20 just as it is written.No need for anyone to change a single word.
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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I think maybe you got me mixed up with someone else? I agree with the 1000 year reign between the first resurrection and the last.
I agree with everything in Revelation 20 just as it is written.No need for anyone to change a single word.
Hi he asked me the same question so I fully answered how those verses fit with a literal millennium and then he is using the same verses with you as if they were irrefutable proof for his view. Since he did not answer me I jumped in on your thread as in debate unchallenged ideas are considered accepted. So him not replying to me and still using an argument that has been refuted without countering my thread in a debate he would lose. Id rather he answer and we uncover God's glorious plan and see the amazing things accomplished in the end times. I am agreed with you . God bless.
 
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jerry kelso

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The timing of Revelation 20 is revealed by the Apostle Paul.

The fire comes at the end of Revelation 20.
In 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 Paul said Christ returns "in flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not know God.

The judgment of the dead is found at the end of Revelation 20.
In 2 Timothy 4:1 Paul said Christ judges both the living and the dead at His appearing. The time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some, and destruction for others is also found in Revelation 11:15-18.
This proves the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order. This is confirmed by Christ returning as a thief at Armageddon in Revelation 16:15-16, and also in chapter 19.

Revelation 20 is full of symbolic language.

We know the "first resurrection" in the chapter cannot be the first bodily resurrection in the book, because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected in chapter 11.
We also find the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18, and you cannot have a time of the judgment of the dead without a bodily resurrection of the dead.

All of the above proves the Premill doctrine cannot be correct.

Christ will not conduct funeral services for 1,000 years after His Second Coming, in a world where immortals and mortals both live on the planet.
There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of the judgment of the living in Matthew 25:31-46.
Instead Revelation 20 is a symbolic vision of the entire Church Age.

The 1,000 years is symbolic, just as the "key", and the "chain" are symbolic in the passage.
We know from Mark 5 that demonic spirits cannot be bound by a literal chain.


Some people try to interpret their entire Bible through their man-made interpretation of Revelation 20.
This is a serious mistake, and has produced numerous cults.


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baberean2,

1. In post 82 I debunked your symbolic 1000 years and wrong example of the demonic man as proof for Satan not being bound in chains. Satan is an angel not a Demonic spirit to begin with.
Read post 82.
Your position is full of holes because it is only half truth. It is not proper exegesis. Jerry kelso
 
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nolidad

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Why did you ignore the rest of Matthew 25:31-46?

Is there something at the end of the passage which leaves no mortals alive on the planet?

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I am the one who said there are millions alive on earth when Jesus returns to set up His millenial kingdom! That is Matt. 25:31-46 as written and not allegorized!

But what does 3 1/2 days mean? How much time is it? You are th eone that says the book of revelation is fulfilled so what d time frame is three 1/2 days in allegorism?

Who or what are the two witnesses? Do they really die? Does the world really celebrate their death?

You said the 1,000 years is the church age and the Bible says the beast , flase prophet and Satan are all abyssed during that time. Why does Peter and Paul tell us we fight the devil if he is abyssed in the 1,000 years that are nearly 2,000 years now?

I do want to know what you r opinion of these Scriptures are and await your answer.
 
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BABerean2

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I am the one who said there are millions alive on earth when Jesus returns to set up His millenial kingdom! That is Matt. 25:31-46 as written and not allegorized!


And how many of those millions are left alive on the earth as mortals, at the end of Matthew 25:31-46?


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BABerean2

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baberean2,

1. In post 82 I debunked your symbolic 1000 years and wrong example of the demonic man as proof for Satan not being bound in chains. Satan is an angel not a Demonic spirit to begin with.
Read post 82.
Your position is full of holes because it is only half truth. It is not proper exegesis. Jerry kelso


2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;


Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


.
 
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nolidad

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And how many of those millions are left alive on the earth as mortals, at the end of Matthew 25:31-46?


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Everyone that is still alive!

So how long is the 3 1/2 days in te book of revelation?

Who are these two witnesses in the church age?
Do they really die or is that allegorical as well?
Why is Satan abyssed in teh church age and yet Peter an Paul warn us to be wary of him?

These are the next questions that must be answered!
 
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klutedavid

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Everyone that is still alive!

So how long is the 3 1/2 days in te book of revelation?

Who are these two witnesses in the church age?
Do they really die or is that allegorical as well?
Why is Satan abyssed in teh church age and yet Peter an Paul warn us to be wary of him?

These are the next questions that must be answered!
How do you interpret the verse below?

1 John 2:18
Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.
 
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BABerean2

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Everyone that is still alive!


Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


Can you explain how there can be any mortals left alive on the planet at the end of the verse above?


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Timtofly

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And how many of those millions are left alive on the earth as mortals, at the end of Matthew 25:31-46?

Is there a difference between living and dead? For one, I question the whole physical dying as meaning "saved". We are not saving the elect, nor saving physical bodies. The point is the longer this time is drawn out, the more determined humanity will be to blaspheme God, and condemn themselves, taking their names out of the Lamb's book of life.

I agree fellow pre mil are wrong, but even if the living are changed without dying, these sheep and wheat are physically changed from corruptible bodies to incorruptible. This is not a removal of death and immortality. This body is not the church. The church is in Paradise. Any who want to stay on earth and rule cannot. That is a desire that will never happen. There is no guarantee that one living today, can reject Christ and still be able to choose to be a sheep or wheat. They will be the ones who show up in filthy rags, and sent to sheol. Or they will be the one's who claimed to do all in the name of the Lord, but Jesus claims, "Depart from me, I never knew you."

To say anyone has a say in their future goes beyond "many are called, but few are chosen". We either choose God or reject God. We are not choosing what happens in the afterlife. All we are choosing is to let God control what happens, no matter what. Calvinism is an extreme, because they claim fallen humans cannot even choose God. Athiest go to extreme saying there is no God. Amil go to the extreme and say God cannot change or redeem this earth. The only option is total annihilism of the physical any time in the future, whether naturally or supernaturally, does not matter.
 
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BABerean2

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Amil go to the extreme and say God cannot change or redeem this earth.

Based on Hebrews 11:14-16, this earth is not our home. Did the author of the Book of Hebrews go to the "extreme"?

Paul said the same thing in Galatians 4:24-31.
Is our home in the earthly Jerusalem, or is it in the Jerusalem which is above, that is our "mother"? Paul agrees with Hebrews 11:14-16, and Revelation 3:12.


What did Peter say below?

Put some salt in water and "dissolve" it, if you want to understand the passage.

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


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Timtofly

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Based on Hebrews 11:14-16, this earth is not our home. Did the author of the Book of Hebrews go to the "extreme"?

Paul said the same thing in Galatians 4:24-31.
Is our home in the earthly Jerusalem, or is it in the Jerusalem which is above, that is our "mother"? Paul agrees with Hebrews 11:14-16, and Revelation 3:12.


What did Peter say below?

Put some salt in water and "dissolve" it, if you want to understand the passage.

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Pre mil does not deny this change of reality, nor does it "procrastinate" it 1000 years into the future. We just trust God, and accept God’s Word as is. Feel free to symbolize, because that is the only way to remove your contradictions of God’s reality. None of the last 1990 years has introduced a new heavens and earth, not even the OT variety.

I agree that making the next Millennium some futurist technologically advanced experience may be jumping the gun. There may be nothing pleasureable to carnel flesh whatsoever. Who wants to live in a zoo for hundreds of years? Some may find that boring some may find that exciting. Some may even abhor the thought of letting nature ruin their pristine technological glamorous lifestyle.

The next 1000 years is not even for the church. It is for Christ and the tribes of Jacob as promised to Abraham. His descendants messed things up, but God only holds those accountable to a certain generation. And it is not for the past dead, not even Abraham or David. It is for Adam's descendants after God removes the church from this current generation. Only those who think they are in the church will be confused when they realize they are not. The world of flesh will not be confused when the 6th seal is opened. They know they are in trouble.
 
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Timtofly

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I never said it had.

The New Heavens, and the New Earth come at the future Second Coming of Christ.

If you deny a millennium for the OT prophecies, then yes you do. The OT only had the Law. They were the ones God used to prophecy, so at the First Coming, some prophecy would be fulfilled. All the understanding of this reality will be fulfilled in this reality. Only John, 1990 years after Christ, witnessed these events. You do not have to accept or believe that fact. But why claim John is symbolizing Revelation 20? Is Satan just a symbol of human rebellion, and really does not even exist? Is resurrection not real, but only a symbol of change? Are thrones not real, but only a symbol of evolutionary change? Nature judges humanity and creates a different generation of humanity? Why does God give us literal beings, thrones, resurrections, and then expects us to spiritualize them? Revelation is not about explaining the Millennium. The OT prophets covered those 1000 years. John gives us when it starts and what happens at the end of this reality. No one was given a vision of the next reality. John saw it in person. Revelation 21:1-2

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the old heaven and the old earth had passed away, and the sea was no longer there.
2 Also I saw the holy city, New Yerushalayim, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared like a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

John saw it. John saw New Jerusalem. Then John symbolized reality. John did not see a symbolic vision, and then turn it into reality and then symbolized it. Nor did he expect us to guess what he was talking about. He was there in person and stated exactly what he saw. Then he symbolized it to prove it was not a symbol. If it was a symbolic vision, he would have said it was a bride descending in the clouds and then describe what this bride represents. Or he would have left us guessing because even he did not literal see the new heavens and earth. He himself would not know what this bride was coming out of the clouds. Then he goes into specific detail. John was both specific and symbolized, what he literally saw. We cannot spiritualize a symbol, nor should we spiritualize Revelation 20-22.
 
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