Paul on the Law: Galatians 3

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Three simple questions that will lend you some credibility IF you answer them...

What issue Paul was trying to correct when he wrote the stern warning in Galatians 3 which I quote below...

Hi Carl, I'll post the questions separately and give it a go.

With such strong language he was addressing a very serious problem - what was it?

Observing the Torah according to the flesh: which is to walk in the "works of the law", which is the Pharisaic natural minded interpretations of the Torah.

What were the believers doing that evoked such stern words. What does it follow that we need to avoid ???

They had apparently backslidden back into the old Pharisaic natural minded way of understanding the Torah: which is diametrically opposed to the new supernal and spiritual way, according to the Testimony of the Messiah. They had the Testimony, as Paul says, for Paul gave it to them, and thus the Messiah was crucified before their eyes in writing, (pro-egraphe, Galatians 3:1). This is probably the Gospel account which has now come to be known as Luke, which Paul was handing out with the Acts 15 letter in the congregations which he had been used by God to establish. What we need to avoid would therefore be going back to the old Pharisaic minded way of observing the Torah. However, most of modern mainstream Christianity doesn't have such a problem because they didn't start there anyway.

Gal 5:4
4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace.

That is serious Hark...
Please tell us what Paul was saying to avoid?
A clear and simple answer will restore some credibility.

If one is walking according to the natural minded understanding of the Torah, and even all of the scripture, then the same has chosen death, and that is according to Paul and even according to the Torah. There are two ways of understanding: one is life, (Messiah), and the other is death, (natural minded thinking and understanding).

In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, Moses says to Israel, (paraphrased so I don't have to quote the whole passage), I have set before you this day life and good, death and evil, (v. 15), and again, I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, (v. 19).

If he sets before the hearer both life and good and death and evil, and-or life and death and blessing and cursing, and then says make your choice: then it not only applies to the hearer but now the reader because the words he spoke were then written in the Torah.

The choice laid before us in the scripture can really only concern one thing: the way in which a person chooses to read, view, and understand the scripture. If you walk according to the flesh you will die, (Romans 8:4-13), because you will have chosen death.
 
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chad kincham

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Amen and nice little gem inserted into the middle of that post --

"YHWH's law is not against grace."

Except the law of Moses had not one drop of grace, or faith, in it - deliberately.

It was deliberately a burden and bondage, to contrast trying to earn righteousness by keeping 613 statutes, ordinances, and laws in the old covenant, with righteousness by grace and faith in the new covenant.

One example: the covenant given on Mount Sinai is bondage, Galatians 4:21-31.
 
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chad kincham

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Hello Hark,

I am keen to hear from you what issue Paul was trying to correct when he wrote the stern warning in Galatians 3 which I quote below...
With such strong language he was addressing a very serious problem - what was it?
What were the believers doing that evoked such stern words and what does it follow that we need to avoid ???

Faith Brings Righteousness
3 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

6 Just as Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness. 7 Therefore, recognize that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.” 9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

10 For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things written in the book of the Law, to do them.” 11 Now, that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “the righteous one will live by faith.” 12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “The person who performs them will live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Yes, the law of Moses was not of faith, per your citation.

Scripture says the law came by Moses, but faith and grace came by Jesus:

Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
 
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chad kincham

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Hey Clare. - excuse my ignorance but what does the expression 'crickets' signify?
It’s supposed to mean a person or persons having no answer to a question, so remain silent, thus the only sound heard is crickets chirping.
 
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chad kincham

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We could come up with all sorts of simple hypothetical explanations that fit the narrative effortlessly; but that wouldn't be exercising due diligence.

The fact is that the word salvation appears nowhere in this letter.

Works of the Law:

Deu 6:24 And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day.

Deu 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

They had to keep all 613 statutes, commands, laws, and ordinances down to the least jot and tittle, for their righteousness- it was 100% works based righteousness.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Hi Carl, I'll post the questions separately and give it a go.



Observing the Torah according to the flesh: which is to walk in the "works of the law", which is the Pharisaic natural minded interpretations of the Torah.



They had apparently backslidden back into the old Pharisaic natural minded way of understanding the Torah: which is diametrically opposed to the new supernal and spiritual way, according to the Testimony of the Messiah. They had the Testimony, as Paul says, for Paul gave it to them, and thus the Messiah was crucified before their eyes in writing, (pro-egraphe, Galatians 3:1). This is probably the Gospel account which has now come to be known as Luke, which Paul was handing out with the Acts 15 letter in the congregations which he had been used by God to establish. What we need to avoid would therefore be going back to the old Pharisaic minded way of observing the Torah. However, most of modern mainstream Christianity doesn't have such a problem because they didn't start there anyway.



If one is walking according to the natural minded understanding of the Torah, and even all of the scripture, then the same has chosen death, and that is according to Paul and even according to the Torah. There are two ways of understanding: one is life, (Messiah), and the other is death, (natural minded thinking and understanding).

In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, Moses says to Israel, (paraphrased so I don't have to quote the whole passage), I have set before you this day life and good, death and evil, (v. 15), and again, I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, (v. 19).

If he sets before the hearer both life and good and death and evil, and-or life and death and blessing and cursing, and then says make your choice: then it not only applies to the hearer but now the reader because the words he spoke were then written in the Torah.

The choice laid before us in the scripture can really only concern one thing: the way in which a person chooses to read, view, and understand the scripture. If you walk according to the flesh you will die, (Romans 8:4-13), because you will have chosen death.

Ok... so the Law of the Spirit of Christ has set us free from the Law of sin and death...

The way I have always understood and experienced this, is that with Jesus within, the understanding of how to act in every life circumstance is available dynamically as the Spirit prompts so walking in the Spirit becomes knowing exactly how Jesus would have acted in the same circumstances.

This is something that the Law could never do.

So what was written on our hearts was Him. The Logos. Not the 10 or any written laws but the very desires of His heart.

Departing from this intimate anointing was what the Galatians had done - reverting to a dead Law that cant save.
 
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daq

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Ok... so the Law of the Spirit of Christ has set us free from the Law of sin and death...

The way I have always understood and experienced this, is that with Jesus within, the understanding of how to act in every life circumstance is available dynamically as the Spirit prompts so walking in the Spirit becomes knowing exactly how Jesus would have acted in the same circumstances.

This is something that the Law could never do.

So what was written on our hearts was Him. The Logos. Not the 10 or any written laws but the very desires of His heart.

Departing from this intimate anointing was what the Galatians had done - reverting to a dead Law that cant save.

If this is true then why does Paul say of the flesh that he serves the torah-instruction concerning sin, in Romans 7:25?

He is employing the torah-teaching concerning sin, (and death), to mortify and put to death his members concerning (upon) the earth and the deeds of the body, (the "works of the law" which are done according to the physical and outward), that which is of below.

Moreover he says in the same passage, (Romans 7:14), that the Torah is spiritual. He mentions mortifying or putting to death the deeds of the body in the Romans 8 passage previously cited, "For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live", (Romans 8:13).

Moreover the fact that he is teaching about "members" is very clear in the Romans 7 passage where he speaks of a different law at work in his members.

Ignoring or tossing out the torah-instruction of sin and death only means that one ignores Paul's teaching on this and allows his or her members to continue doing what with the mind they wish they would not do.
 
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Carl Emerson

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If this is true then why does Paul say of the flesh that he serves the torah-instruction concerning sin, in Romans 7:25?

This is the matter of walking WRT the flesh or the Spirit. Paul does not claim perfection in this regard. You can imagine Paul of all people would have been so Law driven in his old life that redemption from this tendency would be ongoing.
 
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I am not saying that the Holy Spirit will not refer us to the Law to expose sin in some circumstances but this is not the full picture by any means.

There are many life circumstances which arise that have no reference to the Law but decisions on how to act need to be made. In these cases our ability to hear Him is critical. You shall hear a voice behind you saying this is the way, walk ye in it...
My sheep hear my voice and they follow me...
Some would have us still be experts in knowledge of the Law but the better way is to be intimately acquainted with Him. The Logos speaks. Hallelujah...
 
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Jesus could only do what He saw the Father doing - this was not to do with Law but rather divine purpose - heal this man - not that one... or whatever...

We need to cultivate the same sensitivity to His voice, in fact this unlocks a life full of wonderful divine events - the Lord always has something up His sleeves for us and He has big sleeves.
 
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chad kincham

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If this is true then why does Paul say of the flesh that he serves the torah-instruction concerning sin, in Romans 7:25?

He is employing the torah-teaching concerning sin, (and death), to mortify and put to death his members concerning (upon) the earth and the deeds of the body, (the "works of the law" which are done according to the physical and outward), that which is of below.

Moreover he says in the same passage, (Romans 7:14), that the Torah is spiritual. He mentions mortifying or putting to death the deeds of the body in the Romans 8 passage previously cited, "For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live", (Romans 8:13).

Moreover the fact that he is teaching about "members" is very clear in the Romans 7 passage where he speaks of a different law at work in his members.

Ignoring or tossing out the torah-instruction of sin and death only means that one ignores Paul's teaching on this and allows his or her members to continue doing what with the mind they wish they would not do.

You cannot quote Romans 7 without Romans 8.

Romans 7 is the dilemma under the law Paul had before being a Christian, of living according to the flesh. and Romans 8 is the solution Jesus gives us, wherein we as Christians get victory over living sinfully when we start walking after the Holy Spirit, and no longer walk after the flesh:

Life in the Spirit

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

(The law of sin and death is old covenant mosaic law)

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Thus Romans 7:7-25 is Paul struggling with sin while still under the law of Moses, and Romans 8 is after his conversion when the Holy Spirit dwelled in him, giving him the victory through Jesus.

1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

1Co 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus gives us victory over the law of sin and death, aka Mosaic covenant law.
 
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daq

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You cannot quote Romans 7 without Romans 8.

Romans 7 is the dilemma under the law Paul had before being a Christian, of living according to the flesh. and Romans 8 is the solution Jesus gives us, wherein we as Christians get victory over living sinfully when we start walking after the Holy Spirit, and no longer walk after the flesh:

Life in the Spirit

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

(The law of sin and death is old covenant mosaic law)

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Thus Romans 7:7-25 is Paul struggling with sin while still under the law of Moses, and Romans 8 is after his conversion when the Holy Spirit dwelled in him, giving him the victory through Jesus.

1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

1Co 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus gives us victory over the law of sin and death, aka Mosaic covenant law.

Your insinuation is untrue: I have already discussed portions of both chapters because I know they are one passage. Additionally I do not accept your theory that Paul speaks of a time before he was a believer in Romans 7. The fact of the matter is that if you cannot make sense of what he says in Romans 7 then perhaps you should reevaluate your own understanding of the passage.
 
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If this is true then why does Paul say of the flesh that he serves the torah-instruction concerning sin, in Romans 7:25?

He is employing the torah-teaching concerning sin, (and death), to mortify and put to death his members concerning (upon) the earth and the deeds of the body, (the "works of the law" which are done according to the physical and outward), that which is of below.

Moreover he says in the same passage, (Romans 7:14), that the Torah is spiritual. He mentions mortifying or putting to death the deeds of the body in the Romans 8 passage previously cited, "For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live", (Romans 8:13).

Moreover the fact that he is teaching about "members" is very clear in the Romans 7 passage where he speaks of a different law at work in his members.

Ignoring or tossing out the torah-instruction of sin and death only means that one ignores Paul's teaching on this and allows his or her members to continue doing what with the mind they wish they would not do.

2 Corinthians 3:2-8
You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men; being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

Such confidence we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?

Your gospel explanation is a ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, tablets of stone.
 
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daq

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2 Corinthians 3:2-8
You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men; being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

Such confidence we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?

Amen! :)

Your gospel explanation is a ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, tablets of stone.

Matthew 5:29 ASV
29 And if thy right eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body be cast into hell [Gehenna].

It's a shame that people are offended at the teachings of Paul and that they cannot even tell that, just as he says, he is teaching the commandments of the Master, (1 Corinthians 14:37).

Romans 7:14-25 KJV
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Why should this offend anyone? If your carcass is sold under sin then should you not cut it off and all its deeds so that it doesn't take you with it when it perishes? Oh well, everyone has their own choice to make, just as Moses in the Torah, the Messiah in the Gospel accounts, and Paul in his letters have taught.

Be careful that the letters of Paul do not slay you, for those words of his are surely true: for indeed the letter kills, but that does not only apply to the Torah, it applies to your choice of understanding whenever you read any and all the writings including even the letters of Paul. And those who truly understand will not be offended.
 
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Your gospel explanation is a ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, tablets of stone.

Romans 10:6-8 KJV
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? ( that is, to bring Christ down from above: )
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? ( that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead. )
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Deuteronomy 30:11-19 KJV
11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? [Romans 10:6]
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? [Romans 10:7]
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. [Romans 10:8]
15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Lol, the Rhema-Word of the faith which Paul preaches comes straight from Deuteronomy 30, the Torah! :D
 
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Danthemailman

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Hark,

It seems to me that there is a more simple explanation.

The Galatians were loosing sight of salvation by faith and insisting that keeping the Law was required for salvation.

This interpretation fits the narrative effortlessly.
How I see it. The present tense of the word "justified" implies that these Galatians were contemplating justification by the law. They were getting side tracked by legalistic teachers. "You who are trying to be justified by the law have fallen away from grace," but had they fully come to that place yet? Galatians 3:3 reads: Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? The middle voice implies "making yourselves perfect" by means of self effort. The present tense indicates that the action is in progress and that there is still time to correct the error.

If these Galatians lost their salvation and it was a done deal, then why didn't Paul simply say you "lost your salvation" and I'm done with you? Instead, in verse 10, he said - I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is. Why would Paul have confidence in these Galatians if they lost their salvation and it's all over for them? In verse 12, Paul uses hyperbole, As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
 
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