Paul never taught justification by “faith alone”

Ephfourfive

Well-Known Member
Jan 5, 2021
465
66
53
Dallas
✟9,981.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Widowed
Paul never taught justification by “faith alone”!

Did not Paul write these scriptures?

1 cor 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Three things are eternal (and therefore inseparable) faith, hope, & charity, and the greatest of these is charity! 1 cor 13:13

Phil 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Other scriptures opposing “faith alone”

Matt 5:7 mercy thru merciful
Lk 7:47 forgiven by love
1 pet 4:8 charity covers sins
Jn 20:21-23 sins forgiven
 
  • Agree
Reactions: anna ~ grace

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
25,205
6,162
North Carolina
✟278,093.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Paul never taught justification by “faith alone”!
For Paul, there are only two considerations:

1) faith + works, and
2) faith apart from works, which is "faith alone."

Ac 13:38 (Paul) - Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.

Ro 1:17 - For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: 'The righteous will live by faith' " (Hab 2:4)

Ro 3:21-22 - But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known. . .This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ.

Ro 3:28 - We maintain that a man is justified (declared righteous) by faith apart from observing the law.

Ro 4:5 - However, to the man who does not work, but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

Ro 6:14
- you are not under law, but under grace.

Gal 2:16 - know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ.

Gal 3:10
- All you rely on observing the law are under a curse.

Gal 3:11-12 - Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because 'The righteous will live by faith,' and the law is not based on faith. On the contrary, the man who does these things will live by them." (Lev 18:5)

Eph 2:9 - you have been saved, through faith. . .not by works, so that no one can boast.
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
For Paul, there are only two considerations:

1) faith + works, and
2) faith apart from works, which is "faith alone."

Stop there. That (#2) is a misrepresentation of the Reformation principle, Sola Fide (Faith Alone).

 
  • Winner
Reactions: Daniel Marsh
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,457
26,886
Pacific Northwest
✟732,154.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Our justification comes from God as pure gift: grace.
Not by our meager attempts at righteousness under God's divine decree and command.

God's commandments cannot make us righteous, they instead reveal our unrighteousness.

The command, "Love your neighbor as yourself" is the solemn decree of God, but it is abundantly evident that we do not follow this command, and therefore any who would seek to be justified--be made righteous--by it will fail and only discover the despair of his or her sins.

It is only by the grace of God, in Christ Jesus our Lord, who gives us righteousness as a pure gift, through faith, that we are justified before God. And being therefore justified before God, we may then seek to live lives of righteousness in faith and good works before the world in love. Not to our own justification before God, but out of humility and love in service to God and to our neighbor.

That's the doctrine of Justification by grace alone, through faith, on Christ's account alone.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

bbbbbbb

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2015
28,249
13,488
72
✟369,396.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Our justification comes from God as pure gift: grace.
Not by our meager attempts at righteousness under God's divine decree and command.

God's commandments cannot make us righteous, they instead reveal our unrighteousness.

The command, "Love your neighbor as yourself" is the solemn decree of God, but it is abundantly evident that we do not follow this command, and therefore any who would seek to be justified--be made righteous--by it will fail and only discover the despair of his or her sins.

It is only by the grace of God, in Christ Jesus our Lord, who gives us righteousness as a pure gift, through faith, that we are justified before God. And being therefore justified before God, we may then seek to live lives of righteousness in faith and good works before the world in love. Not to our own justification before God, but out of humility and love in service to God and to our neighbor.

That's the doctrine of Justification by grace alone, through faith, on Christ's account alone.

-CryptoLutheran

Thank you. Your post clearly expresses the biblical truth of justification by God's grace through faith apart from works.

Ephesians 2:8 For this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
 
Upvote 0
Dec 26, 2020
14
14
67
Ireland
✟10,112.00
Country
Ireland
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I do believe in justification through faith, but how does the final judgement in Matthew chapter 25, which is based completely on works, reconcile with this? Those who did not feed and clothe the needy were sent into eternal punishment. I believe that these works should flow from those who believe, but belief does not seem to be the criteria here.

Peter said that Paul was hard to understand, so I wonder if he's been interpreted apart from his intent.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: BobRyan
Upvote 0

Daniel Marsh

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2015
9,750
2,615
Livingston County, MI, US
✟199,779.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I do believe in justification through faith, but how does the final judgement in Matthew chapter 25, which is based completely on works, reconcile with this? Those who did not feed and clothe the needy were sent into eternal punishment. I believe that these works should flow from those who believe, but belief does not seem to be the criteria here.

Peter said that Paul was hard to understand, so I wonder if he's been interpreted apart from his intent.

Eph 2:10
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,352
10,607
Georgia
✟912,157.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Paul never taught justification by “faith alone”!

Did not Paul write these scriptures?

1 cor 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Three things are eternal (and therefore inseparable) faith, hope, & charity, and the greatest of these is charity! 1 cor 13:13

Phil 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Other scriptures opposing “faith alone”

Matt 5:7 mercy thru merciful
Lk 7:47 forgiven by love
1 pet 4:8 charity covers sins
Jn 20:21-23 sins forgiven

Rom 2:13 "13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the Law who will be justified."

Which James also points out in James 2
James 2: 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “And Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Having said that - Paul teaches a justified by faith alone doctrine that looks like this -

Rom 3
27 Where then is boasting? It has been excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.

Paul's term "works of the law" is by his definition "apart from faith", apart from "a law of faith"

Paul has the New Covenant writing the Law of God on the heart - Heb 8:6-12

And ends with this to merge the two ideas.
Rom 3:
31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? Far from it! On the contrary, we establish the Law.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,352
10,607
Georgia
✟912,157.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I do believe in justification through faith, but how does the final judgement in Matthew chapter 25, which is based completely on works, reconcile with this? Those who did not feed and clothe the needy were sent into eternal punishment. I believe that these works should flow from those who believe, but belief does not seem to be the criteria here.

Peter said that Paul was hard to understand, so I wonder if he's been interpreted apart from his intent.

And Rom 2:13 shows how adamant Paul was about doers of the Law being justified.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

bbbbbbb

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2015
28,249
13,488
72
✟369,396.00
Faith
Non-Denom
A nice short video giving the Catholic perspective. It may surprise some people who think that Catholics teach faith and works vehemently


As is well-known, the RCC rejected the monergism of St. Augustine and adopted synergism as the mode of justification, which was formalized at the Council of Trent.
 
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,433
4,605
Hudson
✟284,422.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
Paul never taught justification by “faith alone”!

Did not Paul write these scriptures?

1 cor 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Three things are eternal (and therefore inseparable) faith, hope, & charity, and the greatest of these is charity! 1 cor 13:13

Phil 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Other scriptures opposing “faith alone”

Matt 5:7 mercy thru merciful
Lk 7:47 forgiven by love
1 pet 4:8 charity covers sins
Jn 20:21-23 sins forgiven

The issue is that obedience to God's law can be done for reasons other than trying to earn our salvation, so verses that speaking against doing that should not be mistaken as speaking against our salvation requiring works for some other reason, such as faith. In Romans 3:27-31, we are justified by faith apart from works of the law, however, Paul did not want us to conclude that our faith abolishes our need to obey the Mosaic, but rather our faith upholds it. So Luther taught that we are justified by faith alone in the sense that there are no works that we can do earn our salvation, but that faith is never alone in the sense that our faith does not abolish our need to do good works, but rather the same faith by which we are justified is also expressed as obedience to God's law. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Mosaic Law, so only those who have faith will be doers of the law and will be justified by the same faith, which is why Paul said in Romans 2:13 that only doers of the Mosaic Law will be justified while denying in Romans 4:4-5 that our justification is something that can be earned.
 
Upvote 0

Lost4words

Jesus I Trust In You
Site Supporter
May 19, 2018
11,002
11,748
Neath, Wales, UK
✟1,012,481.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
As is well-known, the RCC rejected the monergism of St. Augustine and adopted synergism as the mode of justification, which was formalized at the Council of Trent.

Obviously you didnt watch the video!
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
25,205
6,162
North Carolina
✟278,093.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
The issue is that obedience to God's law can be done for reasons other than trying to earn our salvation, so verses that speaking against doing that should not be mistaken as speaking against our salvation requiring works for some other reason, such as faith. In Romans 3:27-31, we are justified by faith apart from works of the law, however, Paul did not want us to conclude that our faith abolishes our need to obey the Mosaic, but rather our faith upholds it. So Luther taught that we are justified by faith alone in the sense that there are no works that we can do earn our salvation, but that faith is never alone in the sense that our faith does not abolish our need to do good works, but rather
the same faith by which we are justified is also expressed as obedience to God's law. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Mosaic Law, so only those who have faith will be doers of the law and will be justified by the same faith, which is why Paul said in Romans 2:13 that only doers of the Mosaic Law will be justified while denying in Romans 4:4-5 that our justification is something that can be earned.
Very clear and concise.

Just one alteration in light of the context of Ro 2:13.
Paul is not connecting law keeping with justification in Ro 2:13.

In Romans 2:1-3:8 of Paul's demonstration of the unrighteousness of all mankind (Romans 1:18-3:20), after demonstrating the unrighteousness of the Gentiles (Romans 1:18-32), Paul demonstrates the unrighteousness of the Jews (Romans 2:1-3:8).

Since it is "those who obey the law who will be declared righteous" (Ro 2:13), Paul is showing that thereby the Jews are unrighteous because they do not, and cannot, obey it perfectly. In fact, "all who rely on observing the law (for righteousness) are under a curse " (Galatians 3:10) because of imperfect obedience.

So Paul concludes in Romans 3:9-20 that "Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin" (v.9), that "there is no one righteous, not even one" (v.10), "there is no one who does good, not even one" (v.12), that "no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by observing the law;" rather, through the law we become conscious of sin" (v.20)--rather than acquiring righteousness.

Having locked up all men in sin (3:9, 11:32), Paul then reveals a righteousness from God, which is not through law-keeping, but through faith (3:21-22), which by his grace freely justifies us through the redemption that came by Jesus Christ (3:24), who is our atonement through faith in his blood (3:25); i.e., looking to Jesus in his sacrificial death for us.

So Paul is not connecting law keeping with justification in Ro 2:13,
rather Paul is showing the unrighteousness of the Jews (having already shown the unrighteousness of the Gentiles) because their righteousness depends on a law keeping they are unable to perform and, therefore, the law curses them--just the opposite of giving them righteousness.

It is that power to curse and condemn which we are no longer under in the New Covenant, but we are not free to violate the Decalogue (1 Corinthians 9:21b).
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

d taylor

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2018
10,722
4,736
59
Mississippi
✟251,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith
 
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,433
4,605
Hudson
✟284,422.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
Very clear and concise.

Just one alteration in light of the context of Ro 2:13.
Paul is not connecting law keeping with justification in Ro 2:13.

Paul said in Romans 2:13 it is not the hearers, but the doers of the law who will be justified, so I don't see how you can deny that Paul connected the two. In Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus also said that only those who do the will of the Father will enter the Kingdom of God and that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from Him because he never knew them, so obedience to God's law is required for justification, just not in order to earn it.

In Romans 2:1-3:8 of Paul's demonstration of the unrighteousness of all mankind (Romans 1:18-3:20), after demonstrating the unrighteousness of the Gentiles (Romans 1:18-32), Paul demonstrates the unrighteousness of the Jews (Romans 2:1-3:8).

Since it is "those who obey the law who will be declared righteous" (Ro 2:13), Paul is showing that thereby the Jews are unrighteous because they do not, and cannot, obey it perfectly.

Romans 2:5-12 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism. 12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.

There is nothing in the preceding context that suggests that his purpose was demonstrating the unrighteousness of all Gentiles and Jews, but rather his was making a division based on whether people obeyed the law. Furthermore, in Romans 2:14, Paul said that Gentiles will by nature be doers of the Mosaic Law. In Romans 2:25-29, Paul said that circumcision has value if one obeys the Mosaic Law, that that the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by their obedience to it, which is the same way to tell for a Jew (Deuteronomy 10:12-16, 30:6), while having an uncircumcised heart is associated with refusing to obey the Mosaic Law (Jeremiah 9:25-26, Acts 7:51-53). So in context Paul left the door wide open for both Jews and Gentiles to justified by being doers of the law.

In Romans 2:13, Paul notable did not say anything about needing to have perfect obedience to the law or about no one because justified because we can't obey it, but rather that is entirely what you are inserting into the passage in order to try to change its plain meaning of Paul associating justification with obedience to the law. Our justification is not something that can be earned as a wage even with perfect obedience (Romans 4:4-5).

In fact, "all who rely on observing the law (for righteousness) are under a curse " (Galatians 3:10) because of imperfect obedience.

In Romans 3:27-31, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, so works of the law are of works, which he contrasted with God's law by saying that our faith upholds it, so it is of faith. Likewise, in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Mosaic Law, so again it is of faith. Galatians 3:10-12 is speaking about works of the law, not about the Mosaic Law and they they were under a curse because they were replying on works of the law instead of relying on the Mosaic Law. Paul associated a quote from Habakkuk 2:4 with a quote from Leviticus 18:5, so the righteous who are living by faith are the same as the ones who are living in obedience to the Mosaic Law, while no one is justified before God by works of the law because they are not of faith, unlike the Mosaic Law. God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), and a law that isn't trustworthy can't come from a God who is trustworthy, so to reply on the Mosaic Law is to rely on the Lawgiver, while to deny that the Mosaic Law is of faith is to deny the faithfulness of the Lawgiver.

So Paul concludes in Romans 3:9-20 that "Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin" (v.9), that "there is no one righteous, not even one" (v.10), "there is no one who does good, not even one" (v.12), that "no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by observing the law;" rather, through the law we become conscious of sin" (v.20)--rather than acquiring righteousness.

Having locked up all men in sin (3:9, 11:32), Paul then reveals a righteousness from God, which is not through law-keeping, but through faith (3:21-22), which by his grace freely justifies us through the redemption that came by Jesus Christ (3:24), who is our atonement through faith in his blood (3:25); i.e., looking to Jesus in his sacrificial death for us.

So Paul is not connecting law keeping with justification in Ro 2:13,
rather Paul is showing the unrighteousness of the Jews (having already shown the unrighteousness of the Gentiles) because their righteousness depends on a law keeping they are unable to perform and, therefore, the law curses them--just the opposite of giving them righteousness.

In Romans 3:10, Paul was quoting from Psalms 14:1-3, where it says that no one is righteous among those who say that there is no God, so he was not denying that anyone was righteous, especially because there are many people who are described as righteous. For example, in Luke 1:5-6, it says that both Zechariah and Elizabeth were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commands and decrees blamelessly. If you agree that with Romans 3:20 that the Mosaic Law reveals what sin is and that you should refrain from doing what God has revealed to be sin, then you should agree that we should obey it through faith. In Romans 3:21-22, it does not say that the Law and the Prophets testify that the righteousness of God comes through perfect obedience, but rather they testify that it comes through faith in Christ for all who believe, so obeying the Law through faith in Christ has always been the one and only way to become righteous. In Romans 9:30-10:4, they had a zeal for God, but it was not based on knowledge, so the failed to attain righteousness because they pursued the law as through righteousness were by works in an effort to establish their own instead of pursuing the law as though righteousness were by faith in Christ, for Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith.

It is that power to curse and condemn which we are no longer under in the New Covenant, but we are not free to violate the Decalogue (1 Corinthians 9:21b).

Jesus set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, he did not hypocritically preach something other than what he practiced, and he did not establish the New Covenant in order to undermine anything that he spent his ministry teaching by word or by example, but rather the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law (Jeremiah 31:33). In 1 Corinthians 9:21, Paul used a parallel statement to equate the Mosaic Law with the Law of Christ by saying that he is no longer under the law of God, but under the Law of Christ.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,433
4,605
Hudson
✟284,422.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith

There can be reasons for obeying the Mosaic Law other than trying to earn our justification, so verses that speak against that should not be mistaken as speaking against our justification requiring obedience to the Mosaic Law for other reasons, such as faith in Christ. Furthermore, in Roman 3:27-31, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, so works of the law are of works, while he said that our faith upholds the Mosaic Law, so it is of faith, unlike works of the law.

While it is true that Abraham believed, so he was justified, it is also true that he believed, so he obeyed God's command to offer Isaac, so the same faith by which he was justified was also expressed as obedience, but he did not earn his justification by his obedience. In James 2:21-22, it says that Abraham was justified by his works, that his faith was active along with his works, and that his faith completed his works, so Abraham was justified by his works insofar as they were an expression of his faith, but he was not justified by his works insofar as they were an attempt to earn our salvation.
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
25,205
6,162
North Carolina
✟278,093.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Paul said in Romans 2:13 it is not the hearers, but the doers of the law who will be justified, so I don't see how you can deny that Paul connected the two. In Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus also said that only those who do the will of the Father will enter the Kingdom of God and that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from Him because he never knew them, so obedience to God's law is required for justification, just not in order to earn it.

Romans 2:5-12 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism. 12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.
There is nothing in the preceding context that suggests that his purpose was demonstrating the unrighteousness of all Gentiles and Jews,
Then you fail to comprehend Paul's theme in the book of Romans: righteousness is from God.

He begins with the demonstration of the unrighteousness of all mankind--Gentiles, Jews and everyone (1:18-3:20). He presents justification--the righteousness of Christ imputed to believers through Christ and received by faith. He demonstrates that righteousness has always come by faith, see Abraham (chp 4), contrasts man's unrighteousness with God's righteousness, presents the righteousness communicated through sanctification, defends God's righteousness in the rejection of Israel, and presents the practice of righteousness, in the first 14 chapters of Romans.
but rather his was making a division based on whether people obeyed the law. Furthermore, in Romans 2:14, Paul said that Gentiles will by nature be doers of the Mosaic Law. In Romans 2:25-29, Paul said that circumcision has value if one obeys the Mosaic Law, that that the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by their obedience to it, which is the same way to tell for a Jew (Deuteronomy 10:12-16, 30:6), while having an uncircumcised heart is associated with refusing to obey the Mosaic Law (Jeremiah 9:25-26, Acts 7:51-53). So in context Paul left the door wide open for both Jews and Gentiles to justified by being doers of the law.

In Romans 2:13, Paul notable did not say anything about needing to have perfect obedience to the law or about no one because justified because we can't obey it, but rather that is entirely what you are inserting into the passage in order to try to change its plain meaning of Paul associating justification with obedience to the law. Our justification is not something that can be earned as a wage even with perfect obedience (Romans 4:4-5).

In Romans 3:27-31, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, so works of the law are of works, which he contrasted with God's law by saying that our faith upholds it, so it is of faith. Likewise, in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Mosaic Law, so again it is of faith. Galatians 3:10-12 is speaking about works of the law, not about the Mosaic Law and they they were under a curse because they were replying on works of the law instead of relying on the Mosaic Law. Paul associated a quote from Habakkuk 2:4 with a quote from Leviticus 18:5, so the righteous who are living by faith are the same as the ones who are living in obedience to the Mosaic Law, while no one is justified before God by works of the law because they are not of faith, unlike the Mosaic Law. God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), and a law that isn't trustworthy can't come from a God who is trustworthy, so to reply on the Mosaic Law is to rely on the Lawgiver, while to deny that the Mosaic Law is of faith is to deny the faithfulness of the Lawgiver.

In Romans 3:10, Paul was quoting from Psalms 14:1-3, where it says that no one is righteous among those who say that there is no God, so he was not denying that anyone was righteous, especially because there are many people who are described as righteous. For example, in Luke 1:5-6, it says that both Zechariah and Elizabeth were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commands and decrees blamelessly. If you agree that with Romans 3:20 that the Mosaic Law reveals what sin is and that you should refrain from doing what God has revealed to be sin, then you should agree that we should obey it through faith. In Romans 3:21-22, it does not say that the Law and the Prophets testify that the righteousness of God comes through perfect obedience, but rather they testify that it comes through faith in Christ for all who believe, so obeying the Law through faith in Christ has always been the one and only way to become righteous. In Romans 9:30-10:4, they had a zeal for God, but it was not based on knowledge, so the failed to attain righteousness because they pursued the law as through righteousness were by works in an effort to establish their own instead of pursuing the law as though righteousness were by faith in Christ, for Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith.

Jesus set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, he did not hypocritically preach something other than what he practiced, and he did not establish the New Covenant in order to undermine anything that he spent his ministry teaching by word or by example, but rather the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law (Jeremiah 31:33). In 1 Corinthians 9:21, Paul used a parallel statement to equate the Mosaic Law with the Law of Christ by saying that he is no longer under the law of God, but under the Law of Christ.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,433
4,605
Hudson
✟284,422.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
Then you fail to comprehend Paul's theme in the book of Romans: righteousness is from God.

He begins with the demonstration of the unrighteousness of all mankind--Gentiles, Jews and everyone (1:18-3:20). He presents justification--the righteousness of Christ imputed to believers through Christ and received by faith. He demonstrates that righteousness has always come by faith, see Abraham (chp 4), contrasts man's unrighteousness with God's righteousness, presents the righteousness communicated through sanctification, defends God's righteousness in the rejection of Israel, and presents the practice of righteousness, in the first 14 chapters of Romans.

I completely agree that righteousness comes from God and have said nothing contrary to that. Righteousness is a character trait of God that is straightforwardly expressed by doing what is righteous and God's law is His instructions for how to express that character trait, not for how to attain it. For example, the law reveals that it is righteous to help the poor, but no amount of helping the poor will ever cause someone to become righteous because the one and only way that there has ever been to become righteous is by grace through faith. When we have a character trait, then we will express it through our actions, so when God declares us to be righteous by grace through faith, He is also declaring us to be someone who expresses His righteousness through our actions in obedience to His instructions for how to do that found in His law. In other words, the reason why we have received the righteousness of Christ was not in order to hide it under a bushel, but in order to let it shine through our obedience to the Mosaic Law in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow of how he expressed his righteousness.

In Romans 2:13, Paul notable did not say that we earn our righteousness by being doers of the law, but that only doers of it will be justified, so he was not speaking about the way to become justified, but about a trait that everyone who will be justified has in common. For example is both true that Abraham was justified by faith and that he was a doer of God's law by the same faith (Genesis 26:5), but he did not earn his justification by being a doer of the law, and everyone who will be justified has this in common, which is why Paul could deny that our justification is something that can be earned as a wage while also saying that only doers of the law will be justified.
 
Upvote 0