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Paul fought the circumcision, Messianic Judaism.

BobRyan

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Jesus was talking to Jews under law, and besides, show 1 post here where anyone here said to go out and steal or something like that. This post holds no weight.

On the contrary that post demonstrates how it is that Christ condemns fluff and puffery -- making stuff up- among the magesterium of His day just as Paul would do after the cross.

No change.

Thus Paul's affirmations of and clarifications of his own teaching in Acts 21-28 make the point perfectly clear and consistent with that of Christ before the cross.

the point remains.

It is -- irrefutable.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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Frogster

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no, you are ignoring the context, paul was about the resurrection.

Was the law the hope of the 12 tribes?

26:7 to which our twelve tribes hope to attain, as they earnestly worship night and day. And for this hope I am accused by Jews, O king! 8 Why is it thought incredible by any of you that God raises the dead?
 
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who was Jesus stalking to?
 
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BobRyan

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Paul's argument in Acts 21-28 is that he is a torah observant Jew who like all Pharisees accepts the doctrine of the resurrection and in this case a messianic Jew that also accepts that Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah.. the Jewish Messiah long hoped for long promised.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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BobRyan

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who was Jesus stalking to?

Jesus was talking to the church magesterium of his day - and Paul was talking to both gentiles and Jews -- and on trial - in Acts 21-28.

Both of them affirm torah-observant positions.

Both of them claim to be Jews.

Both of them refuse the fluff and puffery sorts of made-up commandments of men - yet both affirm God's Word and that the Bible is not being made up of that sort of thing at all.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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MoreCoffee

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Jesus was talking to the church magesterium of his day ...

That's incorrect. The Lord was speaking to the Jews ([In Mark chapter seven] leaders of the Jewish people, specifically). They were a magisterium but not of the Christian church.
 
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BobRyan

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That's incorrect. The Lord was speaking to the Jews ([In Mark chapter seven] leaders of the Jewish people

Which is the magisterium of the one true nation Church started by God at Sinai - with God appointed priesthood and God appointed succession of high priests - and God appointed infallible scripture.

I don't claim they were the christian church magisterium - but rather the magesterium that existed in His day - of His own church -- the one He started at Sinai.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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MoreCoffee

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Which is the magisterium of the one true nation Church started by God at Sinai

...

The church in the wilderness was the nation of Israel according to holy scripture (Acts 7:38 This is he that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel that spake to him in the Mount Sinai, and with our fathers: who received living oracles to give unto us) but that isn't the same thing as "the Jews" spoken of in the four gospels.
 
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BobRyan

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fine - magisterium it is Acts 7 -- and so in every way in Mark 7:6-13 and was slammed by Christ "sola scriptura" for setting aside one of the Ten Commandments - the moral law of God binding on all mankind.

Jesus was talking to the church magesterium of his day - and Paul was talking to both gentiles and Jews -- and on trial - in Acts 21-28.

Both of them affirm torah-observant positions.

Both of them claim to be Jews.

Both of them refuse the fluff and puffery sorts of made-up commandments of men - yet both affirm God's Word and that the Bible is not being made up of that sort of thing at all.
 
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BobRyan

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Why do your posts always fail to quote Acts 21:25? I added the missing verse (in red text). Let people see the passage properly. It isn't advocacy for Messianic Judaism and it isn't pro LAW.

My quotes span 7 chapters to point to Paul's self-proclaimed actual practice when it comes to Paul - and Messianic Jews.

If you want to point out an instruction for Messianic Jews in Acts 21:25 - I think you will find that nothing there changes the truth about what Paul says his own practice is regarding the Law of God --

Just as we saw here --

What is encouraging is that the span from Acts 21-28 gives a great view of how Paul declared his own practice "under oath" and before both Jews and gentiles.

[FONT=&quot]Acts 21

[FONT=&quot]24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Acts 24:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
14But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets


Acts 25
8 while he answered for himself, “Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [FONT=&quot]Acts 26[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22 Therefore, having obtained help from God, to this day I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses said would come— 23 that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.”[/FONT]

Acts 28
17 And it came to pass after three days that Paul called the leaders of the Jews together. So when they had come together, he said to them: “Men and brethren, though I have done nothing against our people or the customs of our fathers, yet I was delivered as a prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans,... I have called for you, to see you and speak with you, because for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.”
...
23 So when they had appointed him a day, many came to him at his lodging, to whom he explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening[/FONT]
[/FONT]
 
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BobRyan

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The post that asks us not to talk about Paul's own practice or how it fit in with the Messianic Jews - will often stick to "Let's just talk about gentiles instead" -- and avoid entirely the actual testimony of Paul regarding his own practice

Such as we find here in Acts 21 - in the actual Bible testimony Paul gives in Acts 21-28

Acts 21
20 And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law; 21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.

(Many here would argue - "yeah... that is EXACTLY what Paul was doing!" - Paul goes out of his way to disprove it.



22 What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come.
23 Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow;
24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law..

And those who want to just focus on Acts 21:25 - find that there gentiles are not commandment to "Love God with all their heart" or to "love your neigbhor as yourself" nor even "thou shalt not murder" ... none of that is in Acts 21:25.

Rather what we have there is this restriction from Lev 17 and eating meat with blood in it.

25 But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication.”
 
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If you do not wish to talk about how this affects Gentiles nothing you have to say is germane to us. We knew that all along and have shown you so. Thanks for letting us off of the law.
 
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Violation of the law is not necessary to need grace (redemption). Redemption was promised prior to the law. Gen 3:15
 
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Turns out - what is said IN Acts 21-28 is found IN Acts 21-28... so then we expect to see texts from Acts 21-28 quoted when that is actually the focus of the post.


The point remains.

in Christ,

Bob
Unfortunately you refuse to consider any of the rest of the Scripture to arrive at your understanding. You seem to think your material never has any relationship to the rest of Scripture. You divorce selected quotes from context of total Scripture.
 
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Sure when you plug your ears to the rest of Scripture. You can not show us we are obligated to the law with any select passage in the New Testament.
 
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Paul was not telling Jews to forsake their customs. He did however show them they were no longer obligated to do so in order to possess salvation (accept the Messiah as Savior). This is why the argument went against the Pharisees in Acts 15. Keeping the law is not a requirement of salvation as witnessed and testified about by Peter.
 
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Your continued condemnation of us does not bother me. I understand your game of manipulation.
 
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Excellent response.
 
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His logic is only illusive to the blind and unbelieving.
 
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Why do your posts always fail to quote Acts 21:25? I added the missing verse (in red text). Let people see the passage properly. It isn't advocacy for Messianic Judaism and it isn't pro LAW.

He does not quote because it makes his point invalid.
 
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