Paul did not teach Perpetual Belief Alone-ism for salvation.

[Bible Highlighter]

5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”

The Jerusalem Council

6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. 7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.” Acts of the Apostles 15:5-11

Yes, I did not deny the problem in the fact that the Jews were telling Christians to wrongfully keep the Law of Moses (the 613) as a whole. But they also were told to circumcised after the manner of Moses to be saved, as well.

Acts of the Apostles 15:1 says,
“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.”​

Much of the Old Law (the 613) was filled with ceremonial laws.

But these ordinances were nailed to the cross.

“Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;” (Colossians 2:14).​

For this is why we are not to let others judge us on whether or not we keep the dietary laws, holy days, new moons, and or sabbaths (like the Saturday Sabbath).

“Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:” (Colossians 2:16).
​

This means the Old Law is no more. We look to a New Covenant with New Commands. Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

And yet after everything was said and done they instructed that the new converts were to start keeping the Law.

The apostles were not telling the brethren to keep the whole of the 613 Laws of Moses. They were only told to keep the Moral laws like fornication, etc.; Paul says we are not under the Law (Romans 6:14). Yet, many Christians today will take this as a license to sin on some level, and say they are not under the Law (All Law in general) and this is not what Jesus and the apostles taught.

Paul was referring to not being under the Old Law. The New Commands (that we are under) come from Jesus and His followers. Paul himself asks the question: “shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound?” Paul answers this question with, “God forbid.” (Romans 6:1-2). Paul is saying we fulfill the righteous part or aspect of the Old Law by walking after the Spirit (Romans 8:4). We can also fulfill the Old Law by loving our neighbor (Romans 13:8-10). This is not to say that the Old Law is still in effect as a whole or contract. This simply means that by following the New Covenant way will help to automatically obey those certain things (like the Moral Law) in the Old Law that still apply today under the New Covenant laws (Note: None of the ceremonial laws or judicial laws of the OT apply today).

But by no means can Christians say today that they can sin and still be saved by disobeying the commands of Jesus and His followers. Those who say they know the Lord and they break God's commands are a liar and the truth is not in them (1 John 2:4). Meaning, they really don't know God because they need to keep His commands to prove that they know God (1 John 2:3). Paul says God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). Paul says that the gospel call is.... “God has chosen us to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth.” (2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).

Ravi Zacharias (a famous Christian apologist) was blackmailing a girl to sleep with him. Can we truly say that he knew God while he did such a sin?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

Many will say that the effect of salvation (works and living holy) is not the cause of salvation (faith in Jesus Christ alone). They will say that the effect is not the cause.

My answer:

While it is true that the effect is not the cause, it is not true that they are unrelated to each other as many today are proposing.

For example:

Rain (Cause) = Flooding (the Effect).
Dam broke (Cause) = Flooding (the Effect).

So yes, while the "Effect" (Flooding) can have different "Causes" (like from Rain, or a Dam breaking) thereby showing that the Cause is not always the same for a same Effect, that does not mean that they are not individually true or unrelated to each other. Rain (the Cause) can uniquely of all it's own result of Flooding (the Effect). If this were to happen (Flood Rains) in a certain area, we know that the Rain is related to the Cause of the Flood. Yet, many attempt to say that salvation is not related to works, which is sort of like saying that a Rain Flood is not from Rain, but yet, you cannot have the Flood without Rain water. It is the Rain Water pooling up in an area that results in the Effect of the Flood. It is the same with Salvation. If Salvation (the Cause) leads to works (the Effect), then that means the Effect is connected and it will always be there. They are tied and married together. They are related. So works is tied or related to salvation. Thus, works is a requirement of salvation, just as a flood can be related to rain (even though floods can have different causes). In other words, the Belief Alone position is illogical, and it would sort of be like a man who denies that a flood destroyed his home with rain water because he is saying that the Cause is unrelated to the Effect.

This is why faith without works is dead (James 2:17).

I believe God does the good work through us (Philippians 2:13) (John 15:5). I believe that if we abide in God who is the source of our salvation, then we will allow God to work His good will within our lives.

But make no mistake. A believer's actions have eternal consequences in that they can either be saved or damned. For it is written:

“For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.” (Galatians 6:8-9).

“And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

5 "...God
6 ...will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God."
(Romans 2:5-11).

"And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." (John 5:29).

"His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord." (Matthew 25:23).

"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:30).

"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

18 "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."
(James 2:18-19).

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." (John 12:48).

What words of Jesus can we reject that can judge us on the last day?

Jesus said if any man looks upon a woman in lust, he has committed adultery in his heart (Matthew 5:28-30).

Jesus said if we do not forgive, we will not be forgiven (Matthew 6:15).

Even after the cross, the apostle John says that if we hate our brother, no eternal life abides in us (See 1 John 3:15).

Jesus says to certain believers,
"...I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matthew 7:23).

This is context to obeying Jesus and doing what He says.
For those who do not do what Jesus says they are likened unto fools whose homes were destroyed by a storm.

26 "And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it." (Matthew 7:26-27).

 

[klutedavid]

And yet after everything was said and done they instructed that the new converts were to start keeping the Law.

Are you sure about that?

Galatians 5:3
And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.

If you are circumcised then you are obligated to then obey every law. According to Paul; any attempt at following a law, infers that no other law can be neglected. Which makes sense if you think about it.

The apostles never said that Gentiles were under the law.

The apostles never said the Gentiles were under the ten commandments, not even once.

The rules that James specified consisted of two food laws, strangled and blood. If anything is concluded from the declaration of the Jerusalem council. It would be that one is under the entire covenant law or no law. It can only be one or the other.

 

[klutedavid]

To all:

Many will say that the effect of salvation (works and living holy) is not the cause of salvation (faith in Jesus Christ alone). They will say that the effect is not the cause.

My answer:

While it is true that the effect is not the cause, it is not true that they are unrelated to each other as many today are proposing.

For example:

Rain (Cause) = Flooding (the Effect).
Dam broke (Cause) = Flooding (the Effect).

So yes, while the "Effect" (Flooding) can have different "Causes" (like from Rain, or a Dam breaking) thereby showing that the Cause is not always the same for a same Effect, that does not mean that they are not individually true or unrelated to each other. Rain (the Cause) can uniquely of all it's own result of Flooding (the Effect). If this were to happen (Flood Rains) in a certain area, we know that the Rain is related to the Cause of the Flood. Yet, many attempt to say that salvation is not related to works, which is sort of like saying that a Rain Flood is not from Rain, but yet, you cannot have the Flood without Rain water. It is the Rain Water pooling up in an area that results in the Effect of the Flood. It is the same with Salvation. If Salvation (the Cause) leads to works (the Effect), then that means the Effect is connected and it will always be there. They are tied and married together. They are related. So works is tied or related to salvation. Thus, works is a requirement of salvation, just as a flood can be related to rain (even though floods can have different causes). In other words, the Belief Alone position is illogical, and it would sort of be like a man who denies that a flood destroyed his home with rain water because he is saying that the Cause is unrelated to the Effect.

This is why faith without works is dead (James 2:17).

I believe God does the good work through us (Philippians 2:13) (John 15:5). I believe that if we abide in God who is the source of our salvation, then we will allow God to work His good will within our lives.

But make no mistake. A believer's actions have eternal consequences in that they can either be saved or damned. For it is written:

“For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.” (Galatians 6:8-9).

“And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).

Ultimately your works are not the foundation of your salvation. Jesus Christ is the one who justifies and sanctifies, Jesus alone is the first and final cause of salvation.

There is far too much boasting about personal holiness and personal works, taking place.

A believer's actions have eternal consequences in that they can either be saved or damned.

Never make the mistake of thinking that your works dictate your salvation.

You are confused. A Christian stays saved by following the Lord. Certainly it is not the case, that a Christian contributes to their own salvation. After all, we receive the righteousness of Christ as a gift. We have no righteousness of our own.

 

[HIM]

"28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

Farewell." Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29

Acts 15:21 For (because) Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

 

[HIM]

Are you sure about that?

Yes.

Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Acts 15:21 For (because) Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

The apostles never said the Gentiles were under the ten commandments, not even once.

Because they were never in question They define sin.

The rules that James specified consisted of two food laws, strangled and blood.

And idol worship.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Acts 15:21 For (because) Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Those four necessary things, however:

"no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality."

 

[klutedavid]

Yes.

Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Acts 15:21 For (because) Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.


Because they were never in question They define sin.


And idol worship.

According to the Jewish law, non-Jews (gentiles) are not obligated to convert to Judaism, but they are required to observe the Seven Laws of Noah. Which are the rules that James mentioned.

 

[HIM]

Those four necessary things, however:

"no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality."

Acts 15:21 For (because) Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

 

[HIM]

According to the Jewish law, non-Jews (gentiles) are not obligated to convert to Judaism, but they are required to observe the Seven Laws of Noah. Which are the rules that James mentioned.

The four that are mention are found in the Book of the Law. Then after they are mentioned 2 reasons for giving them is given.

Acts 15:21 For (because) Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.


Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

 

[Ceallaigh]

On the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present. 19 When he had greeted them, he told in detail those things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; 21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come. 23 Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow. 24 Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law. 25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.” Acts of the Apostles 21:18-25

 

[klutedavid]

The four that are mention are found in the Book of the Law. Then after they are mentioned 2 reasons for giving them is given.

Acts 15:21 For (because) Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.


Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

Where is 'abstain from fornication' mentioned in the law?

Are you saying that James was imposing the ceremonial law upon the Gentiles?

 

[HIM]

HIM said: ↑
The four that are mention are found in the Book of the Law. Then after they are mentioned 2 reasons for giving them is given.

Acts 15:21 For (because) Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.


Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

Where is 'abstain from fornication' mentioned in the law?

We are to abstain unless betrothed.
Exod 22:16 And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife.
Exod 22:17 If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.

Are you saying that James was imposing the ceremonial law upon the Gentiles?

No, but what is being imposed by the Holy Ghost is laws pertaining to diet and Morality. All of which are contained in the Law of Moses. Please notice none of the Ten Commandments are mentioned. As was said before They were never in question.

Some exclude all that is contained in Moses Law and some include some things they ought not. Both are in error.

So what are the ceremonial laws? And what are the Laws pertaining to morality?

And what of the laws pertaining to diet? Is it a moral issue, a sin if we do not obey due to us thinking we know better or don't care because of our lust for certain things?

Or is it just sound advice we should adhere to for our own physical well being?

 

[HIM]

On the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present. 19 When he had greeted them, he told in detail those things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; 21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come. 23 Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow. 24 Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law. 25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.” Acts of the Apostles 21:18-25

Acts 15:21 For (Because) Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Acts 15:21 For (Because) Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

What's your point in repeating this verse?

 

[HIM]

Acts 15:21 For (Because) Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

What's your point in repeating this verse?

Because it is the reason for the previous mandates given here.

Acts 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Because it is the reason for the previous mandates given here.

Acts 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Who said it isn't?

 

[HIM]

Who said it isn't?

Considering that it was said in respect to the new Gentiles converts receiving further instruction through it you