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Paul Craig Roberts: Sanctions May Lead To War

Discussion in 'International Politics' started by Erth, Dec 16, 2014.

  1. JackofSpades

    JackofSpades Väinämöinen

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    Swedish speaking Finns are loyal to Finland because they think Finland is Sweden? Do I sense some swedish national pride here? Heja Sverge!

    But, back to topic: I see you agree with Putin about Ukraine having Russian speaking part of population giving Russia a proper excuse to invade their territory. I disagree.
     
  2. Erth

    Erth The last(?!) unapologetic Christian

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    Are you talking about the alleged "invasion" of Crimea?
     
  3. Kalevalatar

    Kalevalatar Supisuomalainen sisupussi

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    Originally Posted by earth
    Most of Western and Southern Finland was originally settled by Swedes, and Finland in its entirety used to be a part of Sweden. The first official language of Finland was Swedish. Swedes built the cities in the West and South and all over the place, and started the oldest Finnish universities. "Finland" and "Finn" are Swedish words.
    Oh boy, oh boy. :doh:

    Well, there was a recent study that revealed that Swedes actually know very little about Finnish history and Finland, and the younger they were the worse their ignorance.

    Applying your "logic" here on NA, basically you're trying to claim that present day North American indigenous peoples are of English origin as evidenced by the fact that most of them speak English and that North America was "originally" "settled" by the English.

    FYI, Finland was settled by Finnic and Sami peoples. The very reason why Finland is not your fellow Indo-European Scandinavian country but a Finno-Ugric country totally a breed apart. The Swedish occupation of Finland did not began until after some 10,000 years later, in the Viking age. The small groups of Swedes who settled in Finland married and assimilated with the native Finnish-speaking Finnic peoples of the land. My DH is not a Swedish-speaking monolingual Finn: he's a bilingual Finn whose mother tongue is Swedish and whose home and everyday language is Finnish, which he speaks fluently. That's the reality.

    The reason why the native Finno-Ugric people of Finland adopted Sweden as their language is the same one that made the Native North Americans learn English, French, and Spanish, the native peoples in the British Raj and British-occupied Palestine learn English, and the Finns in the Grand Duchy of Finland to ditch Swedish in favor of Russian. Because those were the languages of the conquerers and occupiers with bigger swords and guns.

    Also FYI, Finland's name is Suomi. Suomi is populated by suomalaiset who speak suomea and ruotsia and saamelaiskieliä.

    Originally Posted by earth
    The population of Åland is ethnically Swedish and Swedish-speaking. Genetic studies have showed that Swedish-speaking Finns have greater affinity with Swedes than other Finns.
    Yes, the population of Åland is something else. Unlike Finland, Åland is and has never been Finnish and Finnic.

    Originally Posted by earth
    Genetic studies have showed that Swedish-speaking Finns have greater affinity with Swedes than other Finns.
    "Genetic studies", now really? Are we talking about eugenics or something? Like, my kids have 1/89th of Swedish "blood" or something that inexorably makes them like the Swedes even against their own will?

    Surely you mean linguistic studies. And FYI, Erik Allardt et al found exactly that language alone does not affinity make: geography and geopolitics do. The Swedish-speaking Finns in the Helsinki area identified most strongly with Finnish-speaking Finns of the same area and had the weakest affinity with the Swedes. Historically, a bourgeois Swedish-speaking Nyland family like my DH's had close ties to Germany, not Sweden, followed by St. Petersburg, Russia, and the Baltic states. In the Torne river valley on the Swedish border, both the Finnish-speaking Finns, Swedish-speaking Finns, and Sami-speaking Finns identified more strongly with their neighbours the Swedes across the river, regardless of mother tongue.
     
  4. Erth

    Erth The last(?!) unapologetic Christian

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    You don't know what I mean.
     
  5. mindlight

    mindlight See in the dark Supporter

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    Yes I agree there is an enormous effort in the Western media to falsify this conflict. Ironically when Putin opposes gay marriage, blasphemy by [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] Riot in an Orthodox church or supports the choice of the Crimean people to rejoin Russia he is compared to Hitler! Russia remains a deeply corrupt and morally wounded country in which for example abortion, drunkenness and divorce are major problems but the direction seems to be away from Communism and towards Russian Orthodoxy. I fear the racism and intolerance that sometimes accompanies this but not the reaffirmation of basic Christian values on blasphemy or homosexuality for instance.

    The Western political elite is in many ways too homogeneous and too critical of real dissent in its own ranks. This is not healthy in the long run for Western democracy.

    Also the attempt to build a wall between the EU and Russia is shortsighted from geopolitical point of view. We drive them and their resources into the arms of China and in doing so affirm the possibility of alternate power centre to the USA.
     
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