Pastors that abuse their authority.

[hopeinGod]

I know this is an aside Dave and not specifically related to what you said, but I avoid meetings like the plague. I just do not have the time or inclination to look at the back of people's heads and listen to someone whose only claim to greatness is two years in a denominational bible college which means they have to ignore the truth if it clashes with the traditions put in place by the powerbrokers in the denomination.

Jesus said that he would attend when two or three are gathered in His Name. I never miss an opportunity to sit down with anyone who is a believer to have fellowship, food, prayer and teaching. I don't need a vicar, hyms, a sermon, collections or notices to do this. The more spontaneous the better.

I have asked dozens of people on various forums where is a Sunday morning meeting in scripture. So far not one answer, just justification for what they do, which is based on pagan ritual.

I very much live apart from any organization, and have been living this way for many years. Large communities of believers gathered together always carried with them multitudes of financial necessities to keep things going, and, without fail, thrice monthly pleadings for tithe giving.

Some of the richest moments in my life were as a young believer. Out of nowhere, the Lord would pay me a visit, when hanging out with a handful of brothers doing whatever needed done: the lawn cut, the house cleaned, etc., the presence of God would come, and not only stir me inwardly, but all the other brothers as well. He simply arrived on His own. But, those were very special times, as I see them now.

I miss those days. The complexities that emerge within the demands of a business setting aren't at all stimulating spiritually, and distract from a more dedicated focus on simplicity, selflessness, and true holiness.
Dave

 

[Episaw]

A good comment Hope in God

 

[Mich7]

I just heard a teaching the other day who made a similar statement concerning the qualifications for a pastor in most 'congregations'. He summed it up by saying....Jesus wasn't qualified to be a pastor in most 'churches' today. No wife, no education, let alone a divinity degree, and no real resume as far as running a church before.

You hit the nail on the head with that one. That's a big problem with a lot of Pastors...they get their "authority" from a degree whereas Jesus's authority came from God. And anybody can go to school to get a degree...they don't necessarily have to be called by God to do it...so it becomes a career choice rather than a calling. And without the calling you don't have the authority or the anointing to handle it and often times that's where the abuse comes in...not always but sometimes.

 

[AwakenedOne]

WOW. Just WOW

 

[AwakenedOne]

Pastors that abuse their authority.

That's the reason that about 90 believers left our church more than a year ago, some of them members for more than 12 years.

Following are the main points of abuse:

1 - Worship control
We were commanded by the pastor to worship the way he likes (shouting, screaming, dancing) and because most of the time we failed to do so
we were condemned as not praising God as loudly as He deserves.

2 - Submission to pastor
Submission in everything he says and anyone questioning his actions was considered a rebel and under a curse (1Sa 15:23) Many times the
pastor said if you love me (the pastor) obey my commandments. For more than 6 months he was doing Bible studies on submission to the pastor.

3 - Church authority structure
The old pyramid structure but worse than that no elders! The pastor in all of his decisions he hears from God, no need to consult others.

4 - Abuse of authority
How about expelling some workers from ministry suddenly without telling them why or
assigning a wife in a ministry without telling anything to her husband

5 - Pastor is to be served
He said the workers are in the church to serve the pastor. He emphasized that everything must be ready when he comes to preach, he only
takes the microphone. Once he rebuked the workers for not moving a fallen banner, he went and moved it to our shame. You could only get
advice from him if you make an appointment at specific hours of the day. Once we had a case with demon possession but we couldn't call the
pastor cause it was outside his specific hours so we brought someone else from a different church.

6 - Finances
No accountability was given of where the money goes or what are their wages. On one occasion a large piece of land was sold and until today
we do not know what happened to the money.

7 - Money preaching
No, they never begged us to give but EVERY Sunday morning before the main sermon a mini sermon was preached by different workers on giving to
God.

8 - Vision of pastor
No one else had the freedom to have a different vision. He often said "there can be no 2 visions in this church". All workers and members main ministry was to fulfill the pastor's vision.

9 - Church show biz
Oh how many were sacrificed on the altar of church show! Once the show started you had to be there on time better yet half hour earlier
looking perfect with the right suit behaving right to the end of the show. One mistake and you got heavily rebuked. The show was more
important than the hearts of believers. Like a young musician not wearing the right tie he was heavily rebuked, he got really hurt.

10 - Traditions of man
Point 9 had plenty of rules and regulations that disobeying them you got whipped but also signing to become a member/tither for life was a
rule to new members. Lists were taken for members not attending services and also lists of who doesn't tithe who tithes and how much he
gives. You see we were accountable to him about our tithes/offerings but he was not accountable to us as to what he did with our tithes/offerings.

11 - Sensitivity to unbelievers
You try to bring your friend to church to get saved. If he doesn't go away at the hysterical worship and screaming from the pastor and some
others he will when money preaching starts. Usually they say "did you bring me here to get my money to them ?"

12 - Darkness underestimated
Satan has no power or authority today! claiming Col 2:15 "And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly,
triumphing over them in it." The original greek says 'striped naked' for 'spoiled' so the principalities and powers were striped naked from
their power and position (principality) and now they are naked that is they have no power or position (principality).

13 - Church name above Jesus name
Someone said to him "you must put Jesus is Lord above the name of the church outside the building". No he said. And how about the many
T-shirts printed with the name of the church in front and Jesus name behind.

14 - Curses
When we left three of us our names were given from the pulpit with warnings no one to speak to us along with the following scripture
Pro 24:21 My son, fear thou the LORD and the king: and meddle not with them that are given to change:For their calamity shall rise
suddenly; and who knoweth the ruin of them both? He said he is not the one cursing us but the Bible.




Maybe some of you have experienced abuse from leaders in other points than the above.

I believe that all of the above points are unscriptural therefore we could not continue in this kind of a church that might turn to a cult. He would not listen to anybody even leaders from other churches. No change to this day. What i'm concerned with is the believers that go there and they suffer but they don't go away because of fear.

I'm thinking of distributing facts about spiritual abuse among the churches
(without mentioning names) so that believers will wake up shake off the fear and find Christ centered churches.

Thanks in advance for hearing my story,
FF.

Typical of false prophets. They have their reward. It's time to wake the world up to these snakes. Fine job with exposing it and talking about it.

 

[Episaw]

h
Here is what Charisma Magazine had to say about the church...

WHY THE AMERICAN CHURCH IS LOSING ITS INFLUENCE
By Steve Strang publisher and founder of Charisma magazine

There is a sense a depression in many parts of the body of Christ in America, as if something is badly wrong? We’re losing influence within our culture as the anti-Christian sentiment grows, yet most churches roll on as if all is well. The situation is exacerbated by this simple fact: We don’t have our act together in the body of Christ. Too often people come to church, are deeply disappointed and as a result are turned off from the gospel. The church promises solutions but only offers lip service. We’ve become excellent at giving people a show on Sunday but lousy at showing them how to actually live.

In fact, most church members are as bound up as those in the world—they’re in financial bondage, struggling with addictions and their families are in disarray. This includes leaders in the church. As John Maxwell says, everything rises and falls based on leadership. So allow me to address the leadership situation within the Church today.

Evangelical churches and ministries typically grow when leaders are passionate and have a vision. It doesn’t matter if they have seminary degrees; if they can preach the gospel and if people gravitate to them, they suddenly have a growing church!

But there’s also a dark underbelly to leadership in many new Churches springing up. Often the leaders are theologically untrained and veer from biblical doctrine. What else can explain the numerous theological gaffes that have made the public arena in recent times such as one preacher claiming that God is in fact nine gods or one well known American leader being paraded around his church as a crowned king (amid a sex scandal)? As troubling as sloppy theology is, I’m equally disturbed by leaders’ behind-the-scenes attitudes toward their flocks.

There are too many “my way or the highway” leaders. And I have heard far too many pastors joke in private about having a “backdoor revival” before their church could move ahead. Translation: They had to make some people leave. I recently spoke with two businessmen friends about why it’s hard to find a good church. Both are successful financially and are passionate believers. On the surface, they’re what every pastor needs. Yet after being active in a local church, they both became disillusioned with what they saw and how they were treated.

As they recounted stories of how pastors felt threatened by their powerful personalities and positions, I felt sorry for my friends (for never experiencing the community they sought) and for the insecure leaders they served. Countless other mature Christians have been so wounded by leadership that they stay home on Sunday and “go to church” by watching Charles Stanley or Jack Hayford. They get a good message, some good music and an opportunity to “tithe” to that ministry. Sometimes this is a transitional period. Too often it’s not.

But this isn’t Christian community. Aren’t we supposed to assemble with other believers? Aren’t we supposed to bring a hymn or a Scripture or a prophetic word when we meet? In larger churches this need is met in small groups or in various ministries of the church. There are many examples of healthy churches where this happens. But too often it isn’t. So what’s the answer? I believe more church leaders need to be pastored, mentored and discipled themselves. Like the rest of us, they need accountability and true relationship, which produces a spirit of humility and servanthood rather than an “I’m the bishop, serve me” mentality.

Leaders are held to a higher standard. Jesus said it’s better for someone to be cast into the sea with a millstone around their neck than to cause His children to stumble (Mark 9:42). It’s time for us to wake up. There is a lost world to be won. There are “sheep” who need to be nurtured and discipled in the things of God. It’s the only way a believer can survive in this difficult cultural environment! Until this happens, people—like my business friends—will feel as if they’re drifting. They’ll never really find their place in the body of Christ. And sooner or later, they will “vote with their feet” by going somewhere else—or worse still, nowhere.

 

[dayhiker]

That's a good article. Clearly points out some examples of failure. But I don't know of pastors pushing successful people out the door, I'm sure it happens, but I really doubt that its so often that its causing a major fall in church attendance.

To me the biggest reason people don't go to church is just that there are 400 others things people can do. Most of those things aren't sinful and have no intention of being anti-christian. Things like sports, like walking/hiking, like hanging out with friends, birding, taking their kids to all that kinds are into these days, .... The church could have people do all those things, but then when we wanted to go on a hike on Sunday it would be shoot down because we should be in church. OK, so we go on the hike and are not apart of the church at all. Yup, we connect with God as much on our walk in the woods as in church. At least I do. Oh, and since I've hiked with mixed groups and camped with them, the church would probably have problems with that, too.

I happen to be one who still goes to church because I really enjoy a good sermon and really love the worship. Plus its always good to talk with other believers. Yet, I also know that some places I could be judged for what I'm do. Yet, I find myself witnessing more than I did when I was at church every time the door is open. Just last year I had a Jewish lady say I was the first true Christian she has ever meet. She was so impressed that she called her friend over to tell her about me. I could list other examples.

I don't have an answer as to how to get everyone to not be interested in the 400 other things to do and to be interested in church attendance. What I'm doing is going to where they are even if their event is Sunday morning.

 

[CareyGreen]

I recently retired from over 20 years of pastoral ministry to pursue a new calling.

What you describe is deplorable and very sad - a blot on the reputation of Christ and His church.

I'm sad you (and others) have had to endure such things at the hand of a man who is not at all behaving like the good shepherd he is supposed to represent and lift up.

If I can be of any help or encouragement during the "recovery" I would be happy to interact about these issues. It's hard, and often a long process to recover from such abuse.

There is a good book called "The subtle power of spiritual abuse" - can't recall the author. It may be of help.

God bless.

 

[Episaw]

That's a big problem with a lot of Pastors...they get their "authority" from a degree whereas Jesus's authority came from God

One might be tempted to say that we are emptying the church by degrees (pun Intended).

 

[humanbn]

It's inevitable that a man made religious system will abuse. Heck, they killed Jesus. It wasn't the evil people, but the religious who thought they were doing God a favor.

 

[Norah63]

'Pastors that abuse' and ' whats wrong with going to church'. Those two threads have by far the most posts. Lets one see just what house groups or cell mettings are struggling with.
So many have sat under abuse for so long they think it normal, and want to know how to not go with out it being wrong. Until and unless we can begin to believe we are parts of a loving body, progress will be slow.
I have been to home churchs that are identical to denominations. Just sofa instead of pews.
And the years roll by, another generation that is watching our faith walk. Looking for the power of a living body of believers.