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pastors enforcing cutting off 'abjects' that have left the church?

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by kaydrelia, Sep 27, 2016.

  1. kaydrelia

    kaydrelia New Member

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    The Pastors of the church my family goes to tells the congregation that the majority of the people who leave that church are abjects and the congregation should cut off all ties to them, even if they're related to them somehow. The people who have left (quite a lot over the years, and my family has been going there for 30 years), have left because they felt they weren't growing anymore, they were tired of church politics, felt God calling them elsewhere, were offended somehow, or fell back into sin. Only a couple of people that left still talk badly about the church and try to cause division and encourage people to leave before they get sucked into the drama. But the Pastor's continue to preach over the pulpit that the congregation needs to cut everyone who left off, including family that have left, and will say those people didn't hear from God-they were just looking for an excuse to leave. It got to the point where the leaders in ministry were instructed to look at everyone's social media to find out if ministry members were still tied to those who've left and if they were-they were removed from ministry until ties were cut. Leadership calls everyone who left abjects. I am in no way bashing the Pastor's there, i believe they are anointed and called by God, but i am truly struggling with this topic. What does the Bible say about abjects? Are those who leave church to go to another church or to pursue other things truly abjects? Is cutting people, family included, because they leave church justified or Biblical?
     
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  2. JackRT

    JackRT Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Is this a Christian pastor? Just askin'.
     
  3. WolfGate

    WolfGate Senior Member Supporter

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    Seems to me he is confused and thinks his own church building and congregation is the totality of Christ's church. There are some pretty strong words I could use to describe that.
     
  4. Anguspure

    Anguspure Kaitiaki Peacemakers NZ Supporter

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    Sounds very cultic to me. I do know of people who have been treated in this way and (notwithstanding the loss of family) the best thing that ever happened to them was when they cut the ties with such control freaks.

    We are called to treat so called "abjects" like the heathen, excluding them from the fellowship of beleivers, giving them over to Satan in the hope that they might change. And then we are told how to treat heathens (and other enemies of the faith), that is that we lay down our lives in Love for them, in imitation of Christ our Lord who Loved us while we were still enemies.

    “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect".
    So I don't know how it could be that a person who claims to be hearing from God could authorise such hateful behaviour as ostracism in this manner.

    Part of the problem that I see is that the Church institution itself does not encourage proper Godly relationship among beleivers. Because this sort of deep relationship does not exist they think that an exclusion from the fellowship of beleivers (that doesn't really exist anyway) is synominous with breaking up of families and friendships because that is all they've got to work on.
     
  5. Ken Behrens

    Ken Behrens Well-Known Member

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    Mark 9:38-40. Actually, in the early church, many of these people became "wandering apostles". I could give you a great many more Scriptures. The early church used to quote "you will be received wherever you go, for the 'earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof'"

    My first wife and I once had a pastor accuse us from the pulpit of being Ananias and Sapphira. He prophesied we would never have a ministry. Today, 15 years later, he is still living off his father and his wife, preaching to about 5 people. My first wife and I never lacked a ministry until the day she died, and my second wife and I minister full time.

    Not all pastors are anointed by God. Some are anointed for some duties and not for others.
     
  6. dayhiker

    dayhiker Mature veteran

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    Where does he get the word abjects from? .. Today if a pastor preached I should separate from my family I'd leave that church.
     
  7. Kutte

    Kutte Regular Member

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    Words from a wise man:


    "It is not necessary to believe in God to be a good person.

    In a way, the traditional notion of God is outdated.

    One can be spiritual but not religious.

    It is not necessary to go to church and give money – for many,

    nature can be a church.

    Some of the best people in history did not believe in God,

    while some of the worst deeds were done in His name".

    Pope Francis
     
  8. JackRT

    JackRT Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Pope Francis is a truly wise man and a profound Christian. Here are the words of another wise man:

    "This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples. No need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple. The philosophy is kindness." --- The Dalai Lama.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016
  9. Anguspure

    Anguspure Kaitiaki Peacemakers NZ Supporter

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    ....and from an even wiser man: I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
     
  10. Apple Pie 888

    Apple Pie 888 New Member

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  11. Apple Pie 888

    Apple Pie 888 New Member

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    Quotes like this from a supposed "believer" like Pope Francis and others
    is exactly one of the reasons I left the Catholic church in the first place.
    I do not want to follow the teachings of men who themselves can
    "take God or leave Him", like you can be a good person whether you
    believe in God or not. That's man's idea of religion. It's not biblical
    nor is it based on truth. If you don't believe in God, you are NOT a
    good man. The word of God says "What does it profit a man to gain
    the WHOLE world and yet lose his soul in the process?". Just because
    a person does "good" and even "great" things does not mean that
    he himself is righteous. The bible says the rain falls on the just and
    the unjust person. Salvation is found in ONE name, and ONE name only...
    in the name of Jesus Christ, the son of the living God. And this pope is the
    kind of man Catholics choose to believe could lead them to God?
    You can give up your life to save another man's life, and you can give all
    you have to clothe and feed the poor, but that does not give you eternal
    life, unless you know Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. We are saved
    not by works, but through grace by faith in Jesus Christ alone.
    Sure, Catholics themselves can be saved just like anyone else. But the
    Catholic religion is based on man-made ideas that are not biblical and
    have been added or subtracted from true scripture. Things like purgatory,
    the brown scapula, are all man-made ideas, and eventually many are woven into
    the pages of scripture to "prove" their validity. Then they call it the
    "Catholic bible". The true word of God has strong
    words to say about those that add or subtract from the pages of the bible.
    (John 3:3)Unless a man is BORN-AGAIN, he shall not see the Kingdom of God"
    Simply put, ask Jesus into your heart and believe that He is
    the son of God and died for your sins and was resurrected and you shall be saved.
     
  12. dayhiker

    dayhiker Mature veteran

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    I'd say all these quotes are good. Their context has a meaning that can teach all of us something about living.
    I'm a Christian not because its the true religion, I'm a Christian because knowing the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is one of the great blessing in life. I'd have loved to have known St. Francis and many others. But I didn't like in their day or in their part of the world if they are alive now. Thankful God is interested in me today where I am and walks with me each day.
     
  13. Greg J.

    Greg J. Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Without going into technicalities: it is a judgment call. Is the judge willing to do anything, including die, to make what is best for someone else happen? Is what is best for them cutting them off from the local church body?

    No one has the authority to declare that someone else is cut off from God. God himself never rejects anyone. Forgiveness is always available. But humans and their relationship are a complicated, sinful mess, and for the sake of the community sometimes God commands us to do things that he himself would not need to do if he were here.
     
  14. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I would not walk away from this church. I would run.
     
  15. BlackZeppelin

    BlackZeppelin New Member

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    I'll bet you any money you don't go to a mainline church. I'll bet you go to a contemporary, Charismatic or Pentecostal church. I would know, because this is what I saw in those. I have never seen a traditional church proclaim this.

    Get out immediately. The so called Pastor is a control freak that will negatively impact on your Christian life. I speak from experience, so when you see cultish teachings like this, you walk out the door immediately and never come back.

    And go to a proper and regular church.

    And btw, a little trick I learnt about how to avoid cultish, abusive churches. Just hop on the net and see if your denomination has a big ex organisation. You won't see a big "ex Lutheran" web site. Or Anglican etc. There are ex JW and ex Mormon websites. And one of the biggest ex websites is Pentecostal. They even have general ex websites and individual websites such as Hillsong watch. Do some research. A lot of sites say that in these contemporary churches, 50% of the church leave every 3 to 5 yrs, depending on what site you see. The overall consensus is that there is a very high turnover rate compared to regular churches. These stats and the ex sites don't lie.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2016
  16. Norbert L

    Norbert L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Did you actually see this ministry being anointed and called by God? The only people I can be 100% sure of being anointed and called by God are found in the scriptures.

    It seems to me that this circumstance you find yourself in requires more understanding of the authority present day believers are able to administrate among ourselves.

    Also remember the parable of the tares and wheat. Matthew 13:24-30 Pastors do not receive a heavenly appointment that exclude them from this parable. Nor does finding another church/place to worship with other believers, its' tares may just not be as visible.

    There's no easy answer because Jesus did attend His Father's place of worship and the ruler's of it did have Him crucified.
     
  17. aus22

    aus22 Newbie

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    Pope Francis was just saying He cannot say If a man is saved. Not going to church, paying money, not believing in a particular God dose not exclude you from salvation.
    Most Catholic believe in God and Jesus. Thy re born again at baptism and in subsequent years when they repeat the Baptism promise


    ..
     
  18. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

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    There's a time and a place for that (1 Cor 5), but this sounds overboard, and like an abuse of that Scripture. What you described is more characteristic of cults than a Christian church.
     
  19. Uber Genius

    Uber Genius "Super Genius"

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    Known as church discipline, we find it in Matt 18 and Paul's 1st letter to the Corinthians. As well as many other places. This shunning is usually reserved for people trapped in serious sin addiction who refuse to repent. Committing adultery with one's step-mother is not something one wants to brag about.

    Other infractions include heretical teaching (not those who hold false doctrinal beliefs as we all do), but those who twist the Jesus's work on the cross,mans his nature.

    So Jehovah's witnesses and Mormons would be put out of the church, not for holding their beliefs, but for professing (teaching them).

    However emotionally immature men often demand to get their way to the smallest detail. Paternalistic, manipulative, spoiled Pastors are so stereotyped for a reason, it often fit the bill. This current generation can't tolerate these types and they will go the way of the dodo. But country churches and tight communities (think Amish) can wander easily into leaving their first love in exchange for a authoritarian pharisaical community.
     
  20. Goodbook

    Goodbook Reading the Bible

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    Sounds like a cult to me.

    You can only really cut someone off if they dont believe in Jesus, not because they dont go to a particular church. This pastors church congrgation isnt the only one left on earth and believers are part of Jesus church, and its Jesus who is the head, not any one pastor.

    If someome is backsliding or fallen deep into sin you pray for them you dont cut them off. Also there is no rule saying you have to stay in one particular church for the rest of your life always with the same people. GOd is bigger than these petty differences and theres many flocks of sheep around.
     
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