Pastors as Teachers? Managers? Shepherds? Fathers?

[PloverWing]

In another thread in this forum, @Carl Emerson and I had an exchange about the role of pastors in a congregation. So as not to derail that earlier thread, I'm splitting off this conversation into its own thread.

@Carl Emerson said this:

Frankly I think that the modern church has departed from the scriptural structure and elevate the pastoral role to more of a teacher/manager rather than a shepherd/father.

I asked:

Would you be willing to elaborate on your thoughts here? Tell me how you view a teacher, and a manager, and a shepherd, and a father.

I see teaching, because it's usually the pastor who preaches the sermons, and who has more seminary training than most of the congregation. I see management as an unfortunate part of having to keep an organization and a building going -- sometimes the nuts and bolts of making sure the heat is on and the kids' classrooms have enough crayons land on the pastor's desk. Shepherd: sorry, I'm from the city; I think I've never seen an actual shepherd. Father: an interesting (and classic) metaphor.

All that is to say: You have some specific ideas in mind when you use these metaphors to describe pastors. What roles or approaches or activities do you think pastors should be doing more of, and what should they be doing less of, in your view? When you say a pastor should be more like a father and less like a teacher, what do you mean by that?

I'd like to hear from Carl Emerson first, since he's the one who made the initial statement, but then others can join in the discussion after he's had a chance to post.

 

[1213]

...since he's the one who made the initial statement, but then others can join in the discussion after he's had a chance to post.

I think in this, it would be good to also notice what Jesus said:

For they bind heavy burdens that are grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not lift a finger to help them. But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad, enlarge the fringes of their garments, and love the place of honor at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, the salutations in the marketplaces, and to be called 'Rabbi, Rabbi' by men. But don't you be called 'Rabbi,' for one is your teacher, the Christ, and all of you are brothers. Call no man on the earth your father, for one is your Father, he who is in heaven. Neither be called masters, for one is your master, the Christ. But he who is greatest among you will be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
Mat. 23:4-12

 

[Carl Emerson]

First of all we have a tradition of dismissing the views of those making 'generalisations'.
In doing this we can miss the truth of a trend.
What I am sharing is from my observations over 50 years of seeing the church become 'modern'.

I was born again in 1959 and there were no supermarkets. Folks knew one another and the local church leader was a 'father' to the families and visited each home regularly.

Over time, saw villages were merge into a larger City structure as modernisation demanded central control for the sake of improving GDP.

In those days Christian groups thrived in the schools and from our small country (of about 2 million at the time) hundreds of missionaries were sent by churches into the field to translate unknown languages and bring His Word of life to a multitude of unsaved people.

The breath of God saw many fresh converts in the 60's and 70's and to 'manage' the move - Churches got bigger.

Congregations moved from 100 to 400 to 1000 and the unsaved became a 'market'

Folks left their local church and joined in on 'where the action was...

Much of church growth was 'transition' growth rather than new converts.

This travelling distance to church meant that local communities died and supermarkets thrived as the local store closed down.

Folks attending these bigger churches felt lonely and unconnected so the home group was born.

These home groups with God's breath thrived but were not generally allowed to become 'churches' - after all the tithes were needed to sustain the bigger structure.

Rather than having the close association with Jesus through local folk who loved Jesus one was expected to attend seminars with the visiting spiritual elite. Trying to get to talk to these folks was a mission as they were typically whisked out the back door and away in a taxi as soon as their message was delivered.

We used to rate visiting speakers by whether they helped dry the dishes after the meeting.

So to answer the question, seminaries changed their courses to help church leaders cope with the bigger congregations. Management of time and resources was a prime focus, the Father ministry died, Leaders were now teachers. The shepherd no longer left the 99 and cared for the one. Those struggling were expected to seek professional council, the loving family was no more.

Now if your experience is different - Praise God.

And you will ask what is the solution?

Next instalment coming up if you are interested...

 

[PloverWing]

My experience is similar to yours in some ways and different in other ways. I was born in the early 60s, so I'm a little younger than you, but I've seen a similar span of time. The biggest differences, I think, is an urban/rural difference, and possibly also some cultural differences between the US and NZ.

The culture of villages that you describe, with everybody knowing everybody else and the local church leader being a pastor to the whole community, is quite foreign to me. Interesting, but foreign. I grew up in a city of about 100,000, in a cluster of cities that together were about 1 million people. My groceries have always come from supermarkets. The pastor of a small church might know everyone in the congregation, but that pastor would never know all 100,000 people in the city.

The church I grew up in had about 1000 members. I agree about the isolation one can feel in such a large church. We kinda all knew each other's faces, but in such a setting, who ever gets to know someone personally? The pastor there was -- neither teacher nor father; maybe CEO, or maybe just figurehead, preaching once a week, but a distant figure that I wouldn't presume to actually visit or confide in. I have come to believe that it's very difficult to have a church that large that functions well as a church community.

The town I currently live in, at population 20,000, is the smallest town I've ever lived in. It's still a long way from the village life you describe. I think there's not much village-type life here in the densely-populated east coast of the US. Pastor as father to the community may simply be something we can't have in my area. There are smaller towns in the Appalachian and central areas of the US; perhaps some CF-ers from those areas can say whether the model of a pastor leading a community is something they see.

My current church has about 100 members. It's a much more nourishing place than my childhood church. Our pastor knows all of us pretty well -- what we're struggling with, what we're excited about, and so on. I'm very much a fan of small churches now.

It occurs to me that your father-to-the-community model seems to assume that there's only one church in the community. Is that how the villages are? In the US, even small towns tend to have multiple churches. (Mine has a Methodist, a Presbyterian, an Episcopal, a UCC, a Baptist, a nondenominational, two Catholic, and several Pentecostal churches, for example.) In this kind of American culture, I think no one person would be pastor to the whole community.

So, some similarities and some differences in our experiences.

Yes, I'm interested in the solution you have in mind. Please do post your next installment. Even though our situations aren't identical, there are some problems in lots of American churches (including mine), and I'm interested in whatever solution ideas people have.

 

[PloverWing]

Congregations moved from 100 to 400 to 1000 and the unsaved became a 'market'

One additional thought, a confession of some long-buried thoughts. Marketing. This has bugged me for a long time, and I can't quite put my finger on it, but it's there in your sentence. Evangelism and marketing are so close to each other, and also so far away from each other. Bringing people to Christ shouldn't feel like sales and marketing, but the way I was taught evangelism in the 1000-member church of my youth was very much based on sales and marketing concepts. Ick.

 

[Carl Emerson]

OK... about 20 years ago I woke up and was about to pray when I had a deep conviction that God was going to speak.

I waited and 2 Chronicles 18 was impressed on my mind.

As I read the familiar story of Jehoshaphat and Ahab, the Lord opened my understanding and through this passage I saw the flawed direction of the modern church and God's remedy.

Think Jehoshaphat being the church and Ahab the alliances with idolatry the church has made. Then to two engage in a battle that God never sanctioned. The false prophets confirm the direction and the stage is set for disaster. The true prophets had been silenced. The one remaining prophet warns but is unheeded.

His word 'I saw all Israel scattered on the hills like sheep without a shepherd and the Lord said these people have no master let each go home in peace.'

Immediately I knew that the answer to the issues I raised in my first post were to change the locus of my Christianity from the church to the home. Start fresh with the folks He leads you to fellowship with and establish a foundation of unity as a platform for His work.

So we are before Him with a blank page seeking His strategy for His purpose with friends. Mutually supporting one another in Love, returning to the principles recorded in the first 5 chapters of Acts.

We are released from the direction the church took us in and are expectant of much fruit with a lean and loving family.

After Jehoshaphat's reign there was peace in Israel after this shift of focus.

The parallels in this passage and 1 Kings 22 closely match the journey of the modern church.

We look forward with expectation for healing and prophecy to be restored.

 

[PloverWing]

I don't have any experience with house churches. Can you tell me more about how yours works? Is it just your family worshipping together, or have you included a few friends over the years? How many people meet together in your home? Do newcomers ever join you, and if so, how do they hear about you? Do you ever do cooperative activities/events with other nearby house churches, or do you mostly operate in isolation? Does your worship include any sacramental elements -- baptism, communion? When you gather for worship, what do you do together? Does everyone take an active part in the worship -- reading Scripture, leading prayers, etc. -- or does one person mostly lead the time of worship? I'm interested in seeing the different forms that Christian worship and community can take.

 

[Carl Emerson]

We have waited a long time for this beginning. We are at the very beginning, seeking Him together. We have a shared meal with family and two other couples at this stage. We break bread together but our main focus at this early stage is to just wait on Him in worship.
We believe each grouping of believers has a unique calling and direction.

 

[PloverWing]

I wish you well, then, in your new experimental house church. May God be present with you in your gathering.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The position and role and 'office' and duties and job as a pastor is not at all what it was in the first century, thus is not at all according to God's Word, Plan and Purpose, right ?

=========================================
QUOTE="PloverWing, post: 74672234, member: 307356"]In another thread in this forum, @Carl Emerson and I had an exchange about the role of pastors in a congregation. So as not to derail that earlier thread, I'm splitting off this conversation into its own thread.

@Carl Emerson said this:



I asked:



I'd like to hear from Carl Emerson first, since he's the one who made the initial statement, but then others can join in the discussion after he's had a chance to post.[/QUOTE

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

We have waited a long time for this beginning. We are at the very beginning, seeking Him together. We have a shared meal with family and two other couples at this stage. We break bread together but our main focus at this early stage is to just wait on Him in worship.
We believe each grouping of believers has a unique calling and direction.

i.e. SEEing what the Father Does, and DOing this.
HEARing His Voice, and Speaking what He Says .

GOOD (THE BEST/ OBEDIENT/ BLESSED) halleluyah ! abiding IN JESUS, in UNION with the son and with the Father, as written and as practiced/lived inthe first century! HALLELUYAH !

 

[Carl Emerson]

The position and role and 'office' and duties and job as a pastor is not at all what it was in the first century, thus is not at all according to God's Word, Plan and Purpose, right ?

Right.