Discussion Pastor & wife say they don't believe Jesus is GOD❔❓

[Radagast]

The UPC has a different VIEW of the set up of the trinity but they do not deny that Jesus is God!

The deny the Trinity, though. That puts them outside the boundaries of traditional Christianity.

 

[NoFrills]

I'm praying for wisdom and discernment. This is only my opinion, but if you're convinced your words won't be heard (and worse, will only aggravate the situation more) do you really think it would serve any purpose to even see this pastor & his wife again?

I have no choice... lol... what I failed to mention during the course of this entire thread is the fact that I have been living in their house renting a room from them for the past 3 months.
The Lord has sometime sent me on assignments like this, but this one is a higher scale assignment than any in the past. It usually takes me a little while to determine what He wants me to do or say in these situations. He always provides me with a Red Sea Crossing but often I have to go through some persecution before I can get out. However I have learned something important about persecution and people attacking me, and that is the fact that whenever it happens, God's presence is so much greater, more tangible.

I'm glad you found a new community (and it must have been really encouraging to have the two friends from church go with you and confirm everything you were sensing).

Yes it really was. Two weeks ago the 2 women had come to me talking about the deadness in the church and I told them to keep their mouths shut because it was negative and gossip and to just pray. But then the night before I found out from the pastors that they deny the diety of Christ, the Lord gave me a dream in which I saw a dead woman with a noose around her neck laying on a church pew in a church and I was asking why she was dead. The dream was showing me that I was wondering why the SPIRIT [woman] is dead in that church, and it also showed that they had 'hung themselves'. The noose was incredibly long which symbolized the fact that they have been lying to the people for a very loooooong time. I also believe the knot in the hangman's noose shows the bondage they are in as a result. I think the reason there is no peace in their home is because of the sin of lying and covering up their lie for all these years.

The deny the Trinity, though. That puts them outside the boundaries of traditional Christianity.

They have a different way of viewing the 3 personas of God that's all. It's really only a different way of seeing Him. They acknowledge the Father, Son and Spirit, but the way they see it is that God kinda puts each role on as needed. It is not in opposition to the truth, just a different view. I don't see any problem with it, after all, the Trinity is a mystery ... I don't think any of us has it all figured out. But the proof was in the pudding when His Spirit fell this afternoon --- It was in this case, His stamp of approval

 

[Radagast]

They have a different way of viewing the 3 personas of God that's all. It's really only a different way of seeing Him.

Very different. Here on CF, Oneness Pentecostals have generally not been considered Christian. Defending the doctrine would be against CF rules.

They acknowledge the Father, Son and Spirit, but the way they see it is that God kinda puts each role on as needed.

It's called modalism. It's an ancient heresy. It's totally unbiblical, because it makes a nonsense of verses like
John 5:20 or John 14:16.

 

[NoFrills]

Very different. Here on CF, Oneness Pentecostals are not considered Christian. Defending the doctrine would be against CF rules

If what you are saying is true and CF claims UNITED PENTECOSTAL CHURCHES are not Christian, then I'll take my leave and never return to this forum because something is WRONG.

I will be checking with admin about this topic.

 

[KateforChrist]

If what you are saying is true and CF claims UNITED PENTECOSTAL CHURCHES are not Christian, then I'll take my leave and never return to this forum because something is WRONG.

Before doing this I suggest that you do your own research about the history of this unbiblical doctrine.

Some sermonaudios which I found when I searched:

The Sabellian (Modalism) Heresy

Ancient Heresies Part 1 - Modalism

Is Modalism Biblical 1?

 

[KateforChrist]

And something to consider is if they get the Trinity wrong, what else are they teaching that is unbiblical. Unbiblical teaching can be deceptively subtle.

 

[KateforChrist]

Very different. Here on CF, Oneness Pentecostals have generally not been considered Christian.

Thought I'd post this here as it isn't easy to find:

Faith Groups List

 

[Radagast]

Thought I'd post this here as it isn't easy to find:

Faith Groups List

Thank you. I was actually looking quite hard for that.

... love your marsupial friend, by the way.

 

[lismore]

Perhaps there is a link between the false doctrine and the depression. If you're a leader, actively teaching obvious untruths, you won't have peace. God won't bless a lie. God Bless

 

[NoFrills]

Perhaps there is a link between the false doctrine and the depression. If you're a leader, actively teaching obvious untruths, you won't have peace. God won't bless a lie. God Bless

This is precisely what the Lord has been starting to reveal to me in different ways. I'm not looking forward to having a conversation with these pastors. But it's going to have to be done.
-----

This bit is for the others who are trying to convince me that the UPC church isn't Christian:
I will continue to attend the UPC and so will the other ladies who are coming with me. The Spirit of the LIVING God is there and no argument from others will convince me otherwise. I'm familiar with the moving of the Spirit of God and I won't permit carnal reasoning to tell me I shouldn't be around it. Since that church is where the Lord has led me, that's where I now will go. That being said, IF there is something going on in that church or their doctrines, the Lord will reveal it in time. We are told to test all things -- but we aren't to use logic and the carnal intelligence to test things -- We're to use spiritual Godly discernment. The MAJORITY of religious folks came against Jesus, and it seems to be a majority of religious folk even today who come against the Spirit of God.

Personally, I don't need to attend a church. We are not told to 'go to an institutionalized church'. As far as I'm concerned, something is wrong with all of them. But if I'm going to attend, it will be one where the Spirit is able to move!
... We are told to forsake not the gathering together of the saints which can simply be 2 or 3 saints worshipping God corporately in a house or a field. We Christians need to step out of all the 'tradition' we've allowed to rule our carnal minds and go where God leads us personally.

 

[hislegacy]

Unfortunately, it is not unusual to find ministers who question the Divinity of Christ, His being God in the Flesh. It is one of the reasons why we should have a robust relationship with Jesus Christ through prayer, praise and reading the Word of God.

It keeps us from such a ones as what you described.

 

[NoFrills]

video: If God's presence isn't in the church then it's not GOD'S church

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Today I went to their church service again, it was so dry and dead and I felt so grieved inside. The preaching was dry as a bone and intellectual/logical as always. No Spirit led worship. What bothers me even more is the realization that this pastor has literally robbed the congregation of the ability to CHOOSE for themselves -- By deceiving them, they think they're in a church where Jesus equates to God.

Sooooo... after their morning service, I took 2 of the other women who also have been wondering what's wrong there, and I drove them to another church in town... This one was UNITED PENTECOSTAL!

----- WITHIN SECONDS OF ENTERING THE BUILDING I FELT A SENSE OF RELIEF WASH OVER ME ----- AND WHEN WORSHIP BEGAN THE SPIRIT OF GOD FELL STRONGLY ON US ALL AND WE WERE ALL FEASTING ON HIS PRESENCE -- I couldn't stop thanking Him!

..Some part of me had been wondering if I was quenching the Spirit all those months but now I see I wasn't, I just wasn't in a Spirit led church!

It's clear we need to leave the fake Pentecostal church. The UPC has a different VIEW of the set up of the trinity but they do not deny that Jesus is God!

- I also intend to speak to the pastors about their deception and possibly take others to speak to them as well. I need to wait on the Lord in regards to how to go forward. One of the women feels bad because the non spiritual church gave her $1000 to help her in her poverty and this will anger them if she leaves.. but we are to please God and not man -- Obey God not man. And we must not compromise!

Any prayers are welcome from those here who pray Yahweh's perfect will in this. Thanks so much for reading and giving input, I will continue to update as this drama unfolds. ..I'm anticipating that there will be hostility especially from the pastor's wife who is very hostile and has anger issues..

But bless God that He's leading us through this and OUT of a dead church

Thank you all for your comments.. I know I didn't respond to all, but all were read and pondered over..
@lismore @Daniel Marsh @Radagast @Pavel Mosko @fwGod @chevyontheriver @mkgal1 @Kenny'sID @yeshuaslavejeff @WolfGate @miamited @brinny @Brian Mcnamee @topher694 @Daniel9v9

The Holy Spirit would not send you to an UPCI Church.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I'm praying for wisdom and discernment. This is only my opinion, but if you're convinced your words won't be heard (and worse, will only aggravate the situation more) do you really think it would serve any purpose to even see this pastor & his wife again?

I'm glad you found a new community (and it must have been really encouraging to have the two friends from church go with you and confirm everything you were sensing).

United Pentecostal

 

[mkgal1]

I have no choice... lol... what I failed to mention during the course of this entire thread is the fact that I have been living in their house renting a room from them for the past 3 months.
The Lord has sometime sent me on assignments like this, but this one is a higher scale assignment than any in the past. It usually takes me a little while to determine what He wants me to do or say in these situations. He always provides me with a Red Sea Crossing but often I have to go through some persecution before I can get out. However I have learned something important about persecution and people attacking me, and that is the fact that whenever it happens, God's presence is so much greater, more tangible.

I'd do so more praying on this. Perhaps your "assignment" is about seeking Truth for yourself and has little to do with freeing others from their choices. You don't have to confront this couple. You could simply look for another place to live and - when you're able to give them ample notice (whatever you've agreed to) - you can just say you've found another place to live.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I have no choice... lol... what I failed to mention during the course of this entire thread is the fact that I have been living in their house renting a room from them for the past 3 months.
The Lord has sometime sent me on assignments like this, but this one is a higher scale assignment than any in the past. It usually takes me a little while to determine what He wants me to do or say in these situations. He always provides me with a Red Sea Crossing but often I have to go through some persecution before I can get out. However I have learned something important about persecution and people attacking me, and that is the fact that whenever it happens, God's presence is so much greater, more tangible.

Yes it really was. Two weeks ago the 2 women had come to me talking about the deadness in the church and I told them to keep their mouths shut because it was negative and gossip and to just pray. But then the night before I found out from the pastors that they deny the diety of Christ, the Lord gave me a dream in which I saw a dead woman with a noose around her neck laying on a church pew in a church and I was asking why she was dead. The dream was showing me that I was wondering why the SPIRIT [woman] is dead in that church, and it also showed that they had 'hung themselves'. The noose was incredibly long which symbolized the fact that they have been lying to the people for a very loooooong time. I also believe the knot in the hangman's noose shows the bondage they are in as a result. I think the reason there is no peace in their home is because of the sin of lying and covering up their lie for all these years.

They have a different way of viewing the 3 personas of God that's all. It's really only a different way of seeing Him. They acknowledge the Father, Son and Spirit, but the way they see it is that God kinda puts each role on as needed. It is not in opposition to the truth, just a different view. I don't see any problem with it, after all, the Trinity is a mystery ... I don't think any of us has it all figured out. But the proof was in the pudding when His Spirit fell this afternoon --- It was in this case, His stamp of approval

That is not persecution dear.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

And something to consider is if they get the Trinity wrong, what else are they teaching that is unbiblical. Unbiblical teaching can be deceptively subtle.

She is in for a bad ride, Ex Pentecostal Forums
Harmed In The United Pentecostal Church | Spiritual Abuse Blogs
Ex Pentecostal Forums
What Is Spiritual Abuse?
Spiritual Abuse: With a Secondary Focus on the United Pentecostal Church

 

[NoFrills]

Good grief. I looked at a few of those links and wow............... Do readers not realize that EVERY denomination of church has complaints.

.. oh boy... talk about blind.

know what? I'm not even going to bother arguing. I've seen this type of biased far reaching opinions before against certain followers of Yeshua and I already know there is no way to talk to such folks. I think at this point it's best to start using my 'block' feature.

I attended another service tonight and the tangible presence of Yahweh was there in full form - If God approves of them (He clearly doesn't approve of the other church) then that's all I need to know

Jesus loves you! ❤

 

[anna ~ grace]

Edited; I would seek out another place to worship, NoFrills. There are too many red flags here.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Good grief. I looked at a few of those links and wow............... Do readers not realize that EVERY denomination of church has complaints.

.. oh boy... talk about blind.

know what? I'm not even going to bother arguing. I've seen this type of biased far reaching opinions before against certain followers of Yeshua and I already know there is no way to talk to such folks. I think at this point it's best to start using my 'block' feature.

I attended another service tonight and the tangible presence of Yahweh was there in full form - If God approves of them (He clearly doesn't approve of the other church) then that's all I need to know

Jesus loves you! ❤

http://www.marketfaith.org/the-hidden-cult-of-oneness-pentecostalism/

Didache,
1. Concerning baptism, baptise thus: Having first rehearsed all these things, "baptise, in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost," in running water;
2. But if thou hast no running water, baptise in other water, and if thou canst not in cold, then in warm.
3. But if thou hast neither, pour water three times on the head "in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost."
4. And before the baptism let the baptiser and him who is to be baptised fast, and any others who are able. And thou shalt bid him who is to be baptised to fast one or two days before.
~The Didache~

To do something in someone's name means it is simply done in the authority of that person.

1 Chronicles 23:13
Amram’s sons were Aaron and Moses. Aaron was chosen for a special work. He and his descendants were chosen to always be the ones to do this special work—to prepare the holy things for the Temple service. They were the ones to burn the incense before the Lord, to serve him as priests and give blessings to the people in his name forever.

Jeremiah 20:9
Sometimes I say to myself, “I will forget about him. I will not speak anymore in his name.” But when I say that, his message is like a fire burning inside me! It feels like it is burning deep in my bones! I get tired of trying to hold his message inside. And finally, I am not able to hold it in.

Deuteronomy 10:8
At that time the Lord set apart the tribe of Levi to carry the ark of the covenant of the Lord, to stand before the Lord to minister to him, and to bless in his name, to this day.

1 Chronicles 23:13
The sons of Amram: Aaron and Moses. Aaron was set apart to consecrate the most holy things, so that he and his sons for ever should make offerings before the Lord, and minister to him and pronounce blessings in his name for ever;

1 Maccabees 14:43
and that he should be obeyed by all, and that all contracts in the country should be written in his name, and that he should be clothed in purple and wear gold.

Sirach 45:15
Moses ordained him, and anointed him with holy oil; it was an everlasting covenant for him and for his descendants as long as the heavens endure, to minister to the Lord and serve as priest and bless his people in his name.

Sirach 47:13
Solomon reigned in an age of peace, because God made all his borders tranquil, so that he might build a house in his name and provide a sanctuary to stand for ever.

Sirach 50:20
Then Simon came down and raised his hands over the whole congregation of Israelites, to pronounce the blessing of the Lord with his lips, and to glory in his name;

Jeremiah 20:9
If I say, ‘I will not mention him, or speak any more in his name’, then within me there is something like a burning fire shut up in my bones; I am weary with holding it in, and I cannot.

Zechariah 10:12
I will make them strong in the Lord, and they shall walk in his name, says the Lord.

Luke 24:47
and that repentance and forgiveness of sins is to be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

John 1:12
But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God,

John 2:23
When he was in Jerusalem during the Passover festival, many believed in his name because they saw the signs that he was doing.

John 20:31
But these are written so that you may come to believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that through believing you may have life in his name.

Acts 3:16
And by faith in his name, his name itself has made this man strong, whom you see and know; and the faith that is through Jesus has given him this perfect health in the presence of all of you.

John 5:43
I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; if another comes in his own name, you will accept him.

John 10:25
Jesus answered, ‘I have told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name testify to me;

Revelation 14:1
[ The Lamb and the 144,000 ] Then I looked, and there was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion! And with him were one hundred and forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.

Exodus 3:15
God also said to Moses, ‘Thus you shall say to the Israelites, “The Lord, the God of your ancestors, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you”: This is my name for ever, and this my title for all generations.

Exodus 20:24
You need make for me only an altar of earth and sacrifice on it your burnt-offerings and your offerings of well-being, your sheep and your oxen; in every place where I cause my name to be remembered I will come to you and bless you.

Deuteronomy 18:19
Anyone who does not heed the words that the prophet shall speak in my name, I myself will hold accountable.

Psalm 91:14Those who love me, I will deliver; I will protect those who know my name.

Isaiah 42:8
I am the Lord, that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to idols.

Zechariah 13:9
And I will put this third into the fire, refine them as one refines silver, and test them as gold is tested. They will call on my name, and I will answer them. I will say, ‘They are my people’; and they will say, ‘The Lord is our God.’

Matthew 18:20
For where two or three are gathered in my name, I am there among them.’

Matthew 19:29
And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields, for my name’s sake, will receive a hundredfold, and will inherit eternal life.

Matthew 24:5
For many will come in my name, saying, “I am the Messiah!” and they will lead many astray.

Mark 9:39
But Jesus said, ‘Do not stop him; for no one who does a deed of power in my name will be able soon afterwards to speak evil of me.

Luke 9:48
and said to them, ‘Whoever welcomes this child in my name welcomes me, and whoever welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me; for the least among all of you is the greatest.’

Luke 21:8
And he said, ‘Beware that you are not led astray; for many will come in my name and say, “I am he!” and, “The time is near!” Do not go after them.

Luke 21:12
‘But before all this occurs, they will arrest you and persecute you; they will hand you over to synagogues and prisons, and you will be brought before kings and governors because of my name.

Luke 21:17
You will be hated by all because of my name.

John 14:13
I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

John 14:14
If in my name you ask me for anything, I will do it.

John 14:26
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything, and remind you of all that I have said to you.

John 15:16
You did not choose me but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit, fruit that will last, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask him in my name.

John 15:21
But they will do all these things to you on account of my name, because they do not know him who sent me.

John 16:23
On that day you will ask nothing of me. Very truly, I tell you, if you ask anything of the Father in my name, he will give it to you.

John 16:24
Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete.

John 16:26
On that day you will ask in my name. I do not say to you that I will ask the Father on your behalf;

Acts 9:15
But the Lord said to him, ‘Go, for he is an instrument whom I have chosen to bring my name before Gentiles and kings and before the people of Israel;

Acts 9:16
I myself will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name.’

Acts 15:17
so that all other peoples may seek the Lord— even all the Gentiles over whom my name has been called. Thus says the Lord, who has been making these things

Romans 9:17
For the scripture says to Pharaoh, ‘I have raised you up for the very purpose of showing my power in you, so that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth.’

1 Corinthians 1:15
so that no one can say that you were baptized in my name. noteaul

Revelation 2:3
I also know that you are enduring patiently and bearing up for the sake of my name, and that you have not grown weary.

Revelation 2:13
‘I know where you are living, where Satan’s throne is. Yet you are holding fast to my name, and you did not deny your faith in me even in the days of Antipas my witness, my faithful one, who was killed among you, where Satan lives.

Revelation 3:8
‘I know your works. Look, I have set before you an open door, which no one is able to shut. I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name.

1 Peter 1:12
It was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves but you, in regard to the things that have now been announced to you through those who brought you good news by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things into which angels long to look!