Pastor Suicide

[Traveller and Wiley]

Do you believe in a sovereign God or not? That should answer your question. I believe in a sovereign God.

I believe in a sovereign God, too. I just don't believe we can lose our salvation.

If God's will is accomplished by election, how can our actions cause us to lose our salvation? Our will cannot trump God's will (or Sovereignty).

I agree.

 

[Netbug009]

As a fellow Christian who suffers from depression, I really wish I could, with a clean conscience, say the nice white lie answer that doesn't hurt people's feelings, but suicide is a sin and is telling God that you don't trust him with your life. Period.

As for people with mental illness (myself included)... It's a really weird, wonky line that I'm not sure how to think of.

For people who have mental illness, but are able to think for themselves, depression isn't an excuse to not trust God. It's a challenge that needs to be overcome.

If a person's illness or circumstances beyond their control like screwed up medication management puts them in a state where they are completely out of their mind and they end their life? Something like that doesn't really sound like a suicide to me as much as an accident.

But I'm not God, and mental illness isn't something mentioned in the Bible much. So I guess I'll just keep not killing myself.

 

[Faith.Man]

As a fellow Christian who suffers from depression, I really wish I could, with a clean conscience, say the nice white lie answer that doesn't hurt people's feelings, but suicide is a sin and is telling God that you don't trust him with your life. Period.

As for people with mental illness (myself included)... It's a really weird, wonky line that I'm not sure how to think of.

For people who have mental illness, but are able to think for themselves, depression isn't an excuse to not trust God. It's a challenge that needs to be overcome.

If a person's illness or circumstances beyond their control like screwed up medication management puts them in a state where they are completely out of their mind and they end their life? Something like that doesn't really sound like a suicide to me as much as an accident.

But I'm not God, and mental illness isn't something mentioned in the Bible much. So I guess I'll just keep not killing myself.

I have first-hand experience with depression so I have an idea what you're talking about. I do not believe God would allow one of His elect to fall prey to suicide. When I had a near-death drowning experience as a non-Christian and gave up expecting death, God through one of His angels must have saved me because I did nothing to save myself. And that was ten years before I became a Christian born-again believer. God will take care of His elect.

 

[Episaw]

In my country there are over 10,000 ex pastors who have left the ministry because of burnout or unrealistic expectations. Had they not taken the decision to leave the ministry, they too may have been candidates for suicide.

Looking at the bigger picture the burnout amongst ministers is due primarily to a church that has abandoned scripture in favour of tradition. Most pastors are appointed to run the church and are brought in from outside.

You will not find this anywhere in scripture. The leadership of the local assembly was the responsibility of local Elders chosen from the congregation and none of them were paid a salary.

The NT church met in homes not purpose built public buildings. It ran on the basis of every member ministry, not the select few who were paid to do the job and the rest were the spectators.

Too many are in the ministry because they need to be needed so they are there by appointing, not annointing. When this happens the pressure is always on to perform.

A survey showed that 1,600 pastors resign or are fired each month in the USA. The King's business is the King's business, not ours. The church is His church, not ours. The power is His, not ours.

He says that he will not share his glory with another. The church is getting to the stage where it has sidelined God and turned the church into a business with the average pastor acting as a CEO.

When that happens, he becomes subject to the stakeholders, not to God. That is when God leaves the building and all we have is a man needing to keep the system going to maintain his reputation.

When we do this, we cannot blame God if all sorts of things start going wrong.

 

[purnhart]

On the topic of Christians committing suicide, I have known 2 Christian women who have done so. One was experiencing post-pardeum depression and she left a note to her pastor husband that it was her or the baby, so she killed herself. The second was a woman whose boyfriend broke up with her. She used his gun to kill herself. Now, I know suicide is a sin, but if we are Christians, we are not going to lose our salvation if we kill ourselves AFTER we become Christians. Suicide is not the unforgiveable sin; blasphemy of the HS is. But Christians can get depressed for a variety of reasons and decide they've had enough. We need a support system that will help us get through our depressions. I personally do not think that every person who gets depressed is suffering from mental illness. Some are, but some are just going thru a tough time. Emotions are not mental illnesses, they are emotions. If I get angry or depressed over a situation, that is emotions, not mental illness.

 

[Faith.Man]

On the topic of Christians committing suicide, I have known 2 Christian women who have done so. One was experiencing post-pardeum depression and she left a note to her pastor husband that it was her or the baby, so she killed herself. The second was a woman whose boyfriend broke up with her. She used his gun to kill herself. Now, I know suicide is a sin, but if we are Christians, we are not going to lose our salvation if we kill ourselves AFTER we become Christians. Suicide is not the unforgiveable sin; blasphemy of the HS is. But Christians can get depressed for a variety of reasons and decide they've had enough. We need a support system that will help us get through our depressions. I personally do not think that every person who gets depressed is suffering from mental illness. Some are, but some are just going thru a tough time. Emotions are not mental illnesses, they are emotions. If I get angry or depressed over a situation, that is emotions, not mental illness.

Love your avatar.

Depression can be a temporary thing. Most of us, I believe, have experienced periods of depression. For some, the depth and length of depression can be overwhelming. For these people, professional help and maybe medication are warranted. For others, emotions may override their better instincts leading them to do something that they would not ordinarily consider under normal circumstances. Using a gun is an indicator of no hesitation, such as some who slit their wrists might exhibit. A girl I was in love with threatened to slit her wrists because I was going back to college so I could catch up on my studies. Her mother and I stopped her and she got the help she needed. This incident was an emotional response, but it was also indicative of deeper emotional problems -- problems I was not mature enough to handle. I agree with you, strong emotions are not a sign of mental illness. But they still indicate a need for help.

 

[Diane_Windsor]

1) He was never a Christian to begin with.
2) He is burning forever in Hell.

Good riddance.

I thought you were Lutheran

 

[miamited]

Hi all,

I think there is a very important first issue that needs to be resolved in these cases.

Not everyone who stands in a pulpit on Sunday mornings is there by God's calling. Too many people stand in pulpits across the globe because it's a job. This particular instance itself seems to clearly indicate that the man posing as a pastor was not a child of His. Was surely not called of God to be in the position of leadership of God's flock.

I really find it difficult to reconcile that the actions of this man, yes I know that we are all sinners but the word of God holds pastors to a particularly higher degree of holiness, was God's chosen instrument to lead His children.

Secondly, of course, there is always the work of Satan among the children of God. Just think how many people read of a person's suicide who happened to think that their job was to be a pastor, and because of their suicide the work of God is profaned and blasphemed. 'See, those christians aren't any different than us, they just think they're holier than thou.'

My gut is that any pastor of a flock who commits suicide obviously didn't have the peace and joy of the Holy Spirit in their spirit. They obviously didn't have what Jesus promised to give those who love him. 'All ye who are weary burdened, come unto me and I will give you rest. My peace I give to you.'

Now, this is not to say that christians don't sometimes allow the troubles of this life to weigh on them, but being a bit depressed about one's current situation while still resting in the arms of God, is quite a distance away from a person who just feels so put upon by the pressures of life that suicide must be the only way out. And of course, just as in this case, I believe that often suicides have allowed their life to just tumble out of control with sin and not really setting the example of Jesus and God's word as the way of life.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[mdancin4theLord]

I beleive in free will and reject the notion that God elects people to make it and dooms others with no chance to be saved. That is not a loving God..that is a God who makes pupits for His enjoyment. My God says......He died for everyone that if you beleive by faith.....you will be saved. Calvanists don't need God...they think they were elected and anything they do....is immaterial.
This pastor was human. He sinned....he knew it, was embarrassed and chose the easy way out-death. Anyone can make excuses for himself........but sin is sin and sin separates us from God. We should stand before HIm and admit sin, blaming no one else. As for Pastor burn out. I do not beleive they are anymore burned out than other jobs. They are NOT responsible for anyones salvation but rather there to teach the Word of God and lead people in worship. The thing is...people assume that pastors are just perfect and they are not. You don't have to be depressed to sin....many sinners are happy people.

People do bad things. Are you saying that if you have the Holy Spirit you don't sin?

 

[Nstott]

Why are we condemning people who have reached the end?
We need to understand the nature of depressive illnesses that lead to suicide. Pastors, after all are human and we you think of the expectations on them and their workload, many hide their inner torment and then go under.
We should do what the Bible says and PRAY for our leadership.

 

[Episaw]

Why are we condemning people who have reached the end?
We need to understand the nature of depressive illnesses that lead to suicide. Pastors, after all are human and we you think of the expectations on them and their workload, many hide their inner torment and then go under.
We should do what the Bible says and PRAY for our leadership.

Or we could we could do what the bible says and install biblical leadership, which solves most of the problems as we do not read of of biblical leaders (apostles, prophets and Elders) suffering from depression or resigning from pressure and ill health.