Pastor Rob Bell Leaving Mars Hill Church

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brightmorningstar

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ebia,
And to check the validity of his or mine you need to... Read the book.
the validity of yours? Where have you quoted ? Woodpecker has quoted and you have disputed it.
As I said, if what has been quoted is accurate then unless holistically or specifically he has detracted from it, the statements are at odds with the Biblical testimony. Simple.

NB. I have no intention of spending money to read a book which is lacking faith when so many in the world would love to have a Bible, better by the word of God for those who hunger for it than those who think they know better would you not agree?
 
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ebia

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brightmorningstar said:
ebia,
the validity of yours? Where have you quoted ? Woodpecker has quoted and you have disputed it.
I haven't quoted - I've cited, you need to check the citations if you want to.

Similarly you need to read Rob Bell if you want to judge his position, not do so from hearsay and quotemines.

As I said, if what has been quoted is accurate then unless holistically or specifically he has detracted from it, the statements are at odds with the Biblical testimony. Simple.

NB. I have no intention of spending money to read a book which is lacking faith when so many in the world would love to have a Bible, better by the word of God for those who hunger for it than those who think they know better would you not agree?
I wouldn't put those two as an either-or. My own theological education and that of others are both of value Not thongs to be traded off - there are other things Id give up if necessary But I dare say you can access a library copy if you want to.

On the other hand if you never read a book so you can send bibles to Uganda that explains quite a lot.
 
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brightmorningstar

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ebia,

I haven't quoted - I've cited, you need to check the citations if you want to.
Woodpecker has kindly quoted and that is what I am addressing. If you believe the book clarifies or corrects what the quotes say in context then demonstrate it with other quotes. Simply citing the book is no guarantee that I will see what you are thinking of.

Similarly you need to read Rob Bell if you want to judge his position, not do so from hearsay and quotemines.
Ah so you think the quotations by Woodpecker were not correct and accurate then, but hearsay? Or are you trying to mislead?
 
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ebia

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brightmorningstar said:
ebia,

Woodpecker has kindly quoted and that is what I am addressing. If you believe the book clarifies or corrects what the quotes say in context then demonstrate it with other quotes. Simply citing the book is no guarantee that I will see what you are thinking of.
I think that if someone wants to form an informed opinion on a book they need to read the book and then form an opinion. Your final one may turn out to be different than mine - that's fine. It will be based on the book, not on how others (woodpecker, me, whoever) choose to represent the book.

Ah so you think the quotations by Woodpecker were not correct and accurate then, but hearsay? Or are you trying to mislead?
His quotes are the "quotemines". The comments of various people floating around are the "hearsay" bit.
 
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brightmorningstar

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ebia,
I think that if someone wants to form an informed opinion on a book they need to read the book and then form an opinion.
I agree, that is why I qualified the quotes with ‘if’. But as I said, Woodpecker has kindly quoted from it and that is what I am addressing. If you believe the book clarifies or corrects what the quotes say in context then demonstrate it with other quotes. Simply citing the book is no guarantee that anyone will see what you are thinking of.

And I also think that if someone has read the book then they are in a position to give informed opinion on quotes from the book; that they decline to give the informed opinion suggests the quotes are good and the informed opinion doesn’t want to recognise them.

His quotes are the "quotemines". The comments of various people floating around are the "hearsay" bit.

Nonsense.
Firstly his quotes are quotes. By definition they are quotes.
Secondly what are “quotemines” exactly? Do you mean quote mines? How do they differ from quotes? Are quote mines not quotes out of context? That is why I said ‘if’
Thirdly, comments written and read about the quotes are not by definition heresay,
 
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ebia

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brightmorningstar said:
Yes of the book, I will read the book before deciding on the book, and that is why I qualified my responses on the subsequent reading of quotes from the book.
You're playing semantic games to get yourself out of the corner you have painted yourself into. I'll leave you to it - watching paint dry us boring.
 
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brightmorningstar

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ebia,
You're playing semantic games to get yourself out of the corner you have painted yourself into. I'll leave you to it - watching paint dry us boring.
If you wish to comment on the quotes from the book, and the responses, please do so, your personal disputing them on the basis you have informed opinion without any willingness to give the informed opinion is not debate.
 
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brightmorningstar

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The quotes given from Rob Bell's book indicate that he has indeed departed to disbelief of this fundamental of the gospel.
Its becoming a common false teaching and deception.
God is love because He doesn't wish any should perish and thus why Jesus Christ is glorified.
That some do not see how God giving humans a free choice and ability that can determine their death, can be called and considered loving, is contrary to what God's testimony says. It means they don't actually believe God is love as God has demonstrated.

its another case of 'love is god' and not 'God is love'
 
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ebia

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brightmorningstar said:
"Love wins" is not really the best title. "Love has won" would be better. Jesus said on the cross, it is finished and done.
Scripture talks about salvation in past, present, AND future terms. There is nothing wrong with any of those. Give his audience "Love is winning" might be the best to challenge them, but doesn't sound as catchy. Book titles tend to be chosen by the publisher in the US anyway - Tom Wright dislikes some of those given to his there like "after you believe" ("virtue reborn" in the UK) and especially "The Last Word" ("Scripture and the Authority of God").
 
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Viren

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I don't agree completely with Rob Bell, but I learned some things from studying what he had to say. He does believe in hell, but he defines it more in present terms and leaves the future more open. I find this refreshing compare to other pastors that claim to know exactly how many are going to hell.
 
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Viren said:
I don't agree completely with Rob Bell, but I learned some things from studying what he had to say. He does believe in hell, but he defines it more in present terms and leaves the future more open. I find this refreshing compare to other pastors that claim to know exactly how many are going to hell.

Indeed. Concisely stated. :thumbsup:
 
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99percentatheism

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Jesus makes it clear that not everyone will be saved from hell. And, if everyone makes it no matter what, then the Apsotles and other saints that went to their deaths as martyrs, died as kooks.

The "there is no hell" crowd, seems to neglect the spirit of anti-Christ . . . the: "There is no Messiah come in the flesh crowd." Anti-Christ's have no hope of salvation, or, the writers of the New Testament were goofballs as well.
 
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ebia

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99percentatheism said:
Jesus makes it clear that not everyone will be saved from hell.
does he. Some would argue that the NT creates a tension that it doesnt resolve. Is it Jesus that makes it clear, or the systematic theologians who can't leave a question unanswered?

And, if everyone makes it no matter what, then the Apsotles and other saints that went to their deaths as martyrs, died as kooks.
that doesn't follow unless your soterology and your understanding of discipleship is very shallow indeed. it very much mirrors the common 1st century Jewish expectation that Jesus and Paul worked so hard to turn rightway up.

It's not about being vindicated at the expense of others. It's about being the light of the world for the salvation if the world.


The "there is no hell" crowd, seems to neglect the spirit of anti-Christ . . . the: "There is no Messiah come in the flesh crowd." Anti-Christ's have no hope of salvation, or, the writers of the New Testament were goofballs as well.
Only if the NT writers had the same understanding as you. Which begs the question.
 
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