Pastor issues rebuke over church restrictions

[iluvatar5150]

There are over 300 million people living in the US. Fewer people die of Covid than the flu, I would wager.

Perhaps. I think everyone will get Covid at some point and the % of people dying from it is very low.

Could I ask you how many people die of heart attack, or alzheimer's, or cancer, or car accidents for a fair comparison?

People die of things all the time. The death rate as per your link is 2.7%. Not really anywhere close to 1/3 of the earth.

Why are you arguing about a subject on which you obviously haven't done even the most basic amount of reading? All of this information is easily available:

FastStats

At 200,000 deaths in the last 6 months, COVID is easily the #3 killer in the US, behind heart disease and cancer and way ahead of alzheimer's and accidents.

As far as fatality rate goes, while the estimates still cover a wide range, it's probably in the same neighborhood as Cholera and Smallpox:
List of human disease case fatality rates - Wikipedia

Here in GA just to your north I can not REMEMBER the last time we had over 150 hospitatizations and our rate is also dropping.

What? Georgia currently has over 1,600 people hospitalized with covid.
https://covidtracking.com/data/charts/daily-cases-and-currently-hospitalized

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

Has ((((( anyone ))))) actually said that?
M

No, they haven't - as I explain in my second paragraph.

I don't think this is about faith at all. I think it's about people who either believe COVID is a hoax, or massively overplayed by some faceless conspirators. If someone believes the latter, then demanding to ignore government and keep meeting indoors at high risk of infection makes "sense".

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

Why are you arguing about a subject on which you obviously haven't done even the most basic amount of reading? All of this information is easily available:

At 200,000 deaths in the last 6 months, COVID is easily the #3 killer in the US, behind heart disease and cancer and way ahead of alzheimer's and accidents.

Arguing without facts is a thing now

And let's remember that those 200,000 deaths come while the country has been taking *some* precautions. Certainly not enough, but there have been lockdowns, some businesses have closed, some people are distancing and wearing masks etc.

You can imagine if the covid conspirators got their way and removed all restrictions what would be happening.

 

[Redwingfan9]

So why do you believe that God will protect you from COVID, but not from the cold?

Or is it more that you really do believe that you could come to harm from the winter cold, and therefore don't expect that people should worship in those conditions, whereas you believe that COVID is some kind of hoax, therefore you think that there's actually no reason not to keep meeting indoors (where infections are spreading)?

I'm not concerned in the least about getting the Coronavirus because the CDC's statistics indicate that I and my family have essentially zero chance of dying. As for the cold, I'm more concerned about personal comfort than anything else. The reality is that no one wants to sit outside in subzero temperatures, especially so when there is a warm building that everyone can meet in right there waiting to be used.

 

[Isilwen]

I'm not concerned in the least about getting the Coronavirus because the CDC's statistics indicate that I and my family have essentially zero chance of dying.

Here's the thing, you do not actually not that for sure! You or one of your loved ones could actually get sick and die from Covid-19. Then what will you say?

I have a family friend who's husband is a paramedic/firefighter in a big city in the North-East United States. He is a healthy 42-year-old male. He tested positive for Covid-19 over the weekend. Yesterday, he had difficulty breathing and was coughing alot. He ended up at the ER where he had an x-ray taken of his lungs.

It's not showing pneumonia, which is good, but the radiologist read the films and diagnosed him with atelectasis. Here's the definition of it: Complete or partial collapse of a lung or a section (lobe) of a lung. It has since related, but now he has permanent scarring of that section of his lung. He is still not out of the woods either. Who knows if it will happen again.

This is a healthy 42-year-old man. No health issues, nothing. He probably won't die, but depending on what happens, he may end up with more scar tissue in his lungs, which means a reduced volume of air he can take in. He got it just doing what he does as a part of a firehouse.

So it's not just about death with this virus as I have said before. There are long term effects as well, from mild to close to debilitating lasting effects. Cardiac scarring can be one of them. Cardiac scarring depending on the severity can lead to heart failure. Then like above, it can devastate the lungs. Causing lesions that last and cause decreased lung capacity and physical capacity.

There is so much more than death about this virus, I wish people such as yourself would open your eyes and see just how bad this really is, even if the death count is relatively low.

 

[Kettriken]

Hebrews 9:11,12
"When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation. He did not enter by means of of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption."

Later in this book we see the verse (Hebrews 10:25) cited by the pastor in the initial posting, about not forsaking fellowship. How many of you having given up meeting (virtually or at a safe distance) with others believers during the pandemic? That could indeed be a problem, but I would warrant it is few.

My household, and many that I know have found communion with each other through creative means and have been blessed with fellowship and teaching from across the country through webcasts and videos that we otherwise would not have sought out. A pastor friend mention that his church intends to keep up a virtual portion of the service after the pandemic, as it has resulted in a richer fellowship.

Some who were not previously part of a church have told me that they sought online services. Look for the fruit. This can be a great reawakening. The hostility and judgement that drove so many from the doors of the "church" has been stripped away. Many are being exposed to Christ's love that they otherwise might not have encountered.

What is the fruit of your method? Is there schism? Are people feeling cared for? Are they pushed away if they wish to follow standard health guidelines? Have elders died, or loved ones been lost? Is your congregation filled with love or vitriol?

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Is your congregation filled with love or vitriol?

Not sure that would be a proper question?
Pull the plank from ones own eye.
M

 

[Archivist]

I'm not concerned in the least about getting the Coronavirus because the CDC's statistics indicate that I and my family have essentially zero chance of dying. As for the cold, I'm more concerned about personal comfort than anything else. The reality is that no one wants to sit outside in subzero temperatures, especially so when there is a warm building that everyone can meet in right there waiting to be used.

I don’t know of any churches that plan on having outdoor services in subzero temperatures. As I said before, my church is meeting outdoors now but will move indoors when the weather turns colder but will be meeting in our gym where people can be adequately spaced.

 

[Redwingfan9]

I don’t know of any churches that plan on having outdoor services in subzero temperatures. As I said before, my church is meeting outdoors now but will move indoors when the weather turns colder but will be meeting in our gym where people can be adequately spaced.

What your church is doing is not indicative of what some of the churches with Corona scolds in the congregation or in government want to see happen. As evidenced by people on here who think church via Zoom is legitimate, it's clear that there is a significant minority of Christians willing to forsake meeting with the saints out of an out moded fear of death. This suggests to me poor preaching and doctrine on these matters. In any event, like with restaurants the church in many states is fast approaching a day of reckoning. Follow the illegal dictates of tyrannical governors or follow Jesus. Believers should take note as to which road churches in their community take.

 

[Archivist]

What your church is doing is not indicative of what some of the churches with Corona scolds in the congregation or in government want to see happen. As evidenced by people on here who think church via Zoom is legitimate, it's clear that there is a significant minority of Christians willing to forsake meeting with the saints out of an out moded fear of death. This suggests to me poor preaching and doctrine on these matters. In any event, like with restaurants the church in many states is fast approaching a day of reckoning. Follow the illegal dictates of tyrannical governors or follow Jesus. Believers should take note as to which road churches in their community take.

Since you made the claim please provide evidence that churches are planning on holding services outdoors in subzero temperatures.

And there is certainly nothing wrong with online services.

 

[Isilwen]

illegal dictates of tyrannical governors

You keep saying this and it's simply not true. If you want to see what a true tyrannical government is go back to the 1700s in the United States. England was a tyrannical government.

The government asked for churches to close knowing there is online services for the good of the people. They didn't just say shut down and that's it. They allowed the alternative. If they just said shut down and you cannot hold online services you would have something.

it's clear that there is a significant minority of Christians willing to forsake meeting with the saints out of an out moded fear of death.

Moving services to online is not forsaking anything. It is protecting the people. God isn't protecting anyone from this virus as Christians and non-Christians alike are dying or getting sick and having long term effects.

Does not what I shared about our family friend mean anything?

 

[Redwingfan9]

You keep saying this and it's simply not true. If you want to see what a true tyrannical government is go back to the 1700s in the United States. England was a tyrannical government.

The government asked for churches to close knowing there is online services for the good of the people. They didn't just say shut down and that's it. They allowed the alternative. If they just said shut down and you cannot hold online services you would have something.



Moving services to online is not forsaking anything. It is protecting the people. God isn't protecting anyone from this virus as Christians and non-Christians alike are dying or getting sick and having long term effects.

Does not what I shared about our family friend mean anything?

It is not the job of the state to regulate the church. If we are going to have separation of church and state the government needs to buzz off and leave the church and its meetings alone. Internet and television "church" is not church in the scriptural sense.

 

[Isilwen]

It is not the job of the state to regulate the church. If we are going to have separation of church and state the government needs to buzz off and leave the church and its meetings alone. Internet and television "church" is not church in the scriptural sense.

The government does have a duty to protect it's citizens. That includes those who go to church. Them shutting down church for alternative means is valid.

Internet and television "church" is not church in the scriptural sense.

Says you. I see nothing in scripture that says the meeting must be face-to-face beyond that was the only method available to them at the time. We have alternatives today. God is not against those methods, however God would be against congregations not following the laws of the land. I seem to remember that scripture as well. That law is not going against God's word.

 

[Light of the East]

False, more people have died of Covid-19 this year than in the last five flur seasons combined.

That is a lie from the pit of hell. Please stop listening to CNN and the lying liberal media. The CDC admitted that they lied about 43,000 deaths, listing the cause of death as Covid 19 when it was either from pneumonia or flu. This somewhat explains why the listed flu deaths are down this year from a high of 80,000 in the past years.

Jesus said that those who follow their father, the devil, are sons and daughters of the devil because his works they do. One of those works is lying. The devil is called the "father of lies," and those who lie about this virus - the CNN and media liberals, the Democrat Party, and everyone who passes on these lies, are sons and daughters of the devil.

Don't be a son (or daughter) of the devil. Read the information that is out there. Find the lies, like the 300 Florida testing clinics who lied about the test results (sons of the devil) and said they had 100% infection rate of all people tested. Stand for the truth - that masks do not work (CDD and WHO). That Vitamin D, zinc, selenium, and Vitamin C with quercitin keep us from contracting the virus. That there is a cure - hydroxycloroquine - which has been used for 70 years with no problems.

The lies are large, numerous, and preposterous. Don't be a part of them, please!

 

[Light of the East]

The government does have a duty to protect it's citizens. That includes those who go to church. Them shutting down church for alternative means is valid.

Says you. I see nothing in scripture that says the meeting must be face-to-face beyond that was the only method available to them at the time. We have alternatives today. God is not against those methods, however God would be against congregations not following the laws of the land. I seem to remember that scripture as well. That law is not going against God's word.

Masks do not stop the virus.

The Science is Conclusive: Masks and Respirators do NOT Prevent Transmission of Viruses -- Sott.net

There are cures for the virus. Why is the media not only silent about this, but has done everything they can to lie about it? Why did state governors warn doctors that if they prescribed it, they would lose licensure?

Hydroxychloroquine could save up to 100,000 lives if used for COVID-19: Yale epidemiology professor

Hospitals have been paid to report deaths as Covid deaths. They get five times the money from the federal government for reporting a Covid death as they do from reporting just a death.

CDC Admits Hospitals Get Paid To Overcount Coronavirus Deaths – News Articles. Cultural & Political Opinion

Covid tests were corrupted from the beginning.

CDC’s failed coronavirus tests were tainted with coronavirus, feds confirm

COVID Testing Problems in Florida | NaturalHealth365

Here are some of the facts, and many more are available to show that this whole thing has been a gigantic fraud from the beginning. And in watching the actions of politicians from when this began, it became clearly obvious that the Democrats have seized upon this virus, lied through their teeth about it, and used it to try to destroy President Trump.

That you would believe this says volumes about you, and what it says is not good. That you would proclaim your vote for a pair of evil, child-killing sociopaths like Biden and Harris also says no good about you. And your willingness to throw my freedom into the sewer for a hot, steaming pile of lies is about the most repulsive thing I can think of.

 

[Archivist]

That is a lie from the pit of hell. Please stop listening to CNN and the lying liberal media. The CDC admitted that they lied about 43,000 deaths, listing the cause of death as Covid 19 when it was either from pneumonia or flu. This somewhat explains why the listed flu deaths are down this year from a high of 80,000 in the past years.

Jesus said that those who follow their father, the devil, are sons and daughters of the devil because his works they do. One of those works is lying. The devil is called the "father of lies," and those who lie about this virus - the CNN and media liberals, the Democrat Party, and everyone who passes on these lies, are sons and daughters of the devil.

Don't be a son (or daughter) of the devil. Read the information that is out there. Find the lies, like the 300 Florida testing clinics who lied about the test results (sons of the devil) and said they had 100% infection rate of all people tested. Stand for the truth - that masks do not work (CDD and WHO). That Vitamin D, zinc, selenium, and Vitamin C with quercitin keep us from contracting the virus. That there is a cure - hydroxycloroquine - which has been used for 70 years with no problems.

The lies are large, numerous, and preposterous. Don't be a part of them, please!

No, the CDC has not admitted that they lied about the number of COVID deaths.

If you have evidence from valid sources please provide it.

 

[Light of the East]

No, the CDC has not admitted that they lied about the number of COVID deaths.

If you have evidence from valid sources please provide it.

Here.

The CDC Confesses to Lying About COVID-19 Death Numbers

 

[Light of the East]

It is satanic for the governments to close down the churches.

https://www.orthodoxytoday.org/blog...com+Blog+-+Shining+Light+of+Wisdom+and+Truth)

 

[Archivist]

Here.

The CDC Confesses to Lying About COVID-19 Death Numbers

A questionable source with an extreme right-wing bias. I asked for a valid source.

 

[Light of the East]

How Omega-3 Might Help Prevent Cytokine Storm

The COVID-19 Curve Has Been Flattened

Hydroxychloroquine: Lifesaving Therapy or Deadly Treatment?