Pastor is ousted from his California parish over Caitlyn Jenner sign

dzheremi

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I'm not sure where this falls on the "things to confess" scale, but I have to admit I did smirk at the "Jesus had 2 dads and he turned out FINE" sign that one of the protesters was carrying. That's clever, in a silly way. If I were the type of person to counter-protest, I guess I would make a sign that said "...and if one of Bruce Jenner's dads was God the Father, he wouldn't have had gender dysphoria in the first place" or "You're right; He turned out FINE in that He didn't present Himself as a lady when He wasn't one", and then just stand there next to the guy until the protest ended.

I'm glad I'm not that type of person because I think even getting involved in this issue in that way (putting on a sign and such) is just asking for a bunch of ridiculous junk to happen, as the pastor himself basically admits in the Siskiyou Daily article. People are looking for this kind of stuff to protest to seem virtuous on social media and such. But the pastor does raise a good point that if you don't ever do that kind of thing, then you don't call people to reflection and repentance. I think that is true of the declining traditional/mainline Protestant churches, like his Presbyterian Church. (I myself was raised Presbyterian, but that was a long time ago on what feels like a different planet by now; and I would say in response to the pastor that we call people to repentence in the liturgy every day, but I get what he means. Traditional Protestantism is very much on life support in the West, and they need to do something, though I don't know about this particular thing.)
 
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Gnarwhal

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dzheremi

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Good heavens that 'two dads' sign is offensive on so many levels. Disgusting.

While I did laugh a little bit internally over the stupidity of the sign, taking it seriously reveals how popular Christological heresies are among the areligious public. It has been said in the past that every Christological heresy involves somehow making Him less than God or less than man (i.e., falls somewhere on the scale between the poles of Nestorianism and Eutychian Monophysitism), and the particular one expressed via the sign reveals a kind of 'pop Nestorianism', wherein Jesus Christ is definitely a man, and in that way directly comparable to Caitlyn Jenner and/or any gay person or person raised by two same-sex parents, as though the Divinity of His Father which He shares has no bearing on anything.

... :doh:

Are we not supposed to notice strange that is in the context of fury over a sign that addresses transgenderism in particular? Christ didn't become man and then change His mind later, and Christ was very definitely incarnate as a man. So if we're going to use the life of Christ as our model (and I agree with the sign's implicit suggestion that we should), then "Caitlyn Jenner is still a man" should be on every one of those signs!
 
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Dave-W

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Oh it was a Presbyterian Church
Yes.. Probably NOT PC USA. I would guess one of the more conservative denominations like PCA or EPC.
 
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archer75

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I'm not sure where this falls on the "things to confess" scale, but I have to admit I did smirk at the "Jesus had 2 dads and he turned out FINE" sign that one of the protesters was carrying. That's clever, in a silly way. If I were the type of person to counter-protest, I guess I would make a sign that said "...and if one of Bruce Jenner's dads was God the Father, he wouldn't have had gender dysphoria in the first place" or "You're right; He turned out FINE in that He didn't present Himself as a lady when He wasn't one", and then just stand there next to the guy until the protest ended.
I'm not sure how relevant this (my post) is to this thread, but I'll say it anyway: regardless of our confessions' teachings about / non-acceptance of same-sex marriage, we would do well to remember that there are children out there - more than a handful - raised, in effect, by "two moms" (or even two dads, I guess, though I don't know of any instances), without any same-sex marriage. Mom ends up as a single mom for any number of reasons, her single or widowed sister or friend moves in and ends up acting as a "second mother." No challenge to traditional marriage, unrelated to questions about what constitutes a marriage - but these are families, too, and I know of nothing in Nicene Christianity that would allow us to question that. So the hard-line "if your family doesn't have a male and a female adult in it, the whole endeavor is garbage" attitude that you can run into is unhelpful - and also not in line with Christian (specifically RC, for this subforum) teaching.

That isn't really the topic, and it's not a defense of the "two dads" sign, but it's what I thought of. In other words, human reality and the Gospel are - again, without even considering same-sex marriage or anything of the kind - rather more complex than a little sign can describe - as Pastor Hoke himself says.
 
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bèlla

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I'm not surprised by this. I expected some fallout. Given his location and their level of influence it was bound to happen. Many churches are caving to pressure and amending their beliefs. Some perform same sex marriages. I don't believe homosexuality is a graver sin than another. However, I am certain that if I murder someone we won't be celebrating. Either the Word is binding or it's not.
 
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chevyontheriver

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Radagast

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Yes.. Probably NOT PC USA. I would guess one of the more conservative denominations like PCA or EPC.

The formerly independent "Lake Shastina Community Bible Church" joined the (conservative) Bible Presbyterian Church denomination in 2017.
 
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Radagast

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Mom ends up as a single mom for any number of reasons, her single or widowed sister or friend moves in and ends up acting as a "second mother." No challenge to traditional marriage, unrelated to questions about what constitutes a marriage - but these are families

Well, no, actually. Two adults not married to each other may form a household, but not a family.

So the hard-line "if your family doesn't have a male and a female adult in it, the whole endeavor is garbage" attitude that you can run into is unhelpful

I don't believe that anybody was saying that. Both Protestant and Catholic churches have always recognised families headed by a widow or widower.
 
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