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PAROUSIA ~ Second Coming ~

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by Holycanaan, Feb 16, 2002.

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  1. Holycanaan

    Holycanaan New Member

    This is for all mid-trib and post-trib believers and for the pre-trib’s who are still a little shaky on the
    Topic of the rapture. I did a little research on the following words as to their Greek meaning as they appear on certain verses in the New Testament dealing with “Caught up” “Falling away” and “coming”.

    Caught up:
    “Caught up” = harpaso = snatch, as it appears in 2Cor 12:2, caught up to the third heaven. It also appears in 2Cor 12:4 and 1The 4:17, caught up with them in the clouds.

    It also appears only once in Rev 12:5 harpaso = caught up= her child was caught up

    Falling away:
    Falling away = apostais = to depart or separate from =appears only once in 2The 2:3 but not at all in Revelation.

    Coming: = parousia = advent, return, presence
    Coming which has several forms
    Exerchomai, erchomai, and parousia
    I found Parousia only once in Mt 24:3 , of the Kingdom coming. I also, found it in Rev 13:11, beast coming. And Rev 21:2, Jerusalem coming down from God. The other two derivatives, Exerchomai and erchomai--I found these all over the Bible.

    The bottom line is:
    There is only one harpaso (snatch) which takes place BEFORE the trib (1Th 4:17)
    There is only one harpaso (snatch) DURING the trib (Rev 12:5-Her child is caught up) and it does not have anything to do with 1Th 4:17

    There is only one “Falling away“, apostais of the church (separation) BEFORE the trib.

    Two Parousia’s have to do with God’s second advent and the other parousia is the beast’s advent.

    So, again the rapture is BEFORE the tribulation! There is no falling away during the Tribulation, such as described by 1Th 4:14-17

    Am I to believe that some people believe that 1Th 4:14-17 takes place during the Tribulation?
    I read the KJV.
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  2. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    >>So, again the rapture is BEFORE the tribulation!

    It has to be before the Tribulation. God will NOT pour out His wrath upon His church. The Holy Spirit of Truth and Grace is in the world in the Church of true believers today. You have to remove the Holy Spirit with the Church, before God can pour out His wrath upon the world.

    Jesus warned His followers exactly when to flee from Jerusalam. This happened in 70 ad, when the temple and the city was destroyed. When God poured out His wrath, there were no believers in Jerusalam. This is the same thing that will happen on a world wide scale at the end of this age that we now live in.
  3. SenseiPiccolo

    SenseiPiccolo Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the insight...
    havent heard it quite explained like that before
  4. Holycanaan

    Holycanaan New Member

    ~~Bro. Joey~~
    What proofs or backup do you have to say--That the KJV is the "True Infalliable Word Of God?" As opposed to any other Bibles. Just wanting to hear your view point. <><
  5. postrib

    postrib Well-Known Member

    > ...There is only one harpaso (snatch) which takes place BEFORE
    > the trib (1Th 4:17)...

    Where does that verse (or any other) say the harpazo of the church is pre-trib?

    > ...There is only one “Falling away“, apostais of the church
    > (separation) BEFORE the trib...

    The Greek word for "falling away" is apostasia. It means apostasy. I believe Paul is referring to the same departure from the faith that he refers to in 1 Timothy 4:1 and which Jesus refers to in Matthew 24:10-12.

    In 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, I believe Paul makes clear that the apostasy and abomination of desolation must occur before the day Jesus comes to gather us together, for Jesus' coming to gather us together must destroy the Antichrist (verse 8). I believe Paul is referring to the same coming and gathering together as Matthew 24:29-31. I don't believe Paul taught a 3rd coming or a 2nd rapture.

    > ...God will NOT pour out His wrath upon His church...

    Note that nobody in heaven says God's wrath "is come" until after the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15, 18), in the 7 vials (Revelation 15:1).

    The vials contain God's wrath, yet not one of them is directed at Christians. I believe we are even blessed at the 6th vial (Revelation 16:15), that we might endure to the 1,335th day (Daniel 12:12).

  6. rwc109

    rwc109 Active Member

    Why is it you think 1 Thess 4:17 is not post-trib when 1 Thess 4:16 identifies Christ's return?
    To my foolishness it seems that Christ returns but once after the first tribulation [God chastens all those He loves] and there are further tribulations to come after Christ's return for those who have not yet accepted Christ .
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