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Parents VS. School

Discussion in 'Parenting' started by OntheRock, Oct 24, 2002.

  1. OntheRock

    OntheRock Member

    115
    +2
    What actions can I take against the school when they make a decision against my son concerning discipline?  I've talked with the super intendent, he agrees with the decision of the principle.

     

    You all may remember me asking questions about my youngest son age 9 4th grade, concerning ADD and ritalin.  Well, I have another boy in that same school age 11 5th grade.  The school has been continously putting my youngest in trouble, and offered no help to me as a parent.  Then they started with my next son, with bus suspensions, just cause he was sitting by my youngest who did some bad behaviour.  They would not seperate my boys, and said it was not their responsibility.  I told them that they don't like each other.

    Then the school started an in school mail system were students could mail letters to other students.  My 11 yr old sent a letter to my 9 yr old, saying stuff like "I hate you, you must die".  I told the school that there was no possibility of him carring out those actions.  I see them everyday argueing with each other and talking down to each other.  I told them it was just sibling rivalry.  Well, they put my son in allternative education because of a class 4 threat, (considered terroristic), with no bus privledges.

    Any comments on this?  Any action I can take against the school to reverse the decision? 

    You all, I can't deal with this, every thing inside my body says that this is an injustice against my son and me.  I wish I could fully detail all the circumstances leading up to this.  The school has dubbed me as a bad parent and has singled out my kids.
     
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  2. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    +15
    Catholic
    Married
    To OnTheRock:

    Judging just by your posts, you truly sound like a family in crisis. This goes much deeper than an internet message board can truly handle.

    When you have a child with ADD, it affects the entire family dynamics. Your older son probably harbors very intense feelings against your younger son, and is resentful of the attention he gets. A child who makes a death threat MUST be taken seriously. The hateful words are telling you that you definitely have a problem, and it goes much deeper than just sibling rivalry.

    Please seek professional help immediately. Your children have been begging for help, and rather than see the school as the enemy, you need to fix your family.

    I pray that God will assist you in your search for guidance.


    Peace be with you,
    ~VOW
     
  3. lucypevensie

    lucypevensie Not drinking the kool-aid Supporter

    +20,392
    Christian
    Married
    I completely agree with VOW.
     
  4. OntheRock

    OntheRock Member

    115
    +2
    VOW
    I appreciate your comments, but you are wrong on your assesment. It would be too hard for me to explain fully all factors that must be considered. In short, the sibling rivalry that I see everyday between the two is alot of joking and teasing. He would never tell his brother in person that he should die or that he was going to find a way to kill him and I am fully confident in this. I am fully confident that their is absolutely no danger between the two, without a shadow of a doubt. I am with them constantly except for when they go to school.

    My main question is how do I fight the schools decision? Who do I go to above the super intendent?

    Their intentions is to get my son in juvenile hall. If I don't step in and do something then I'm afraid they're going to find a reason to accomplish this. They're nit picking and now they've got this on their side. It started with my youngest and his supposed ADD. Then a girl said my other boy was kicking her on the bus. They disciplined him and said he was maliciouly kicking a girl for no reason. I talked with the principle on this and she was not willing to listen to my defense on my boys behavior. So I dug a little deeper and found out that he and the girl were only playing around, but sinse the girl got in trouble for something else, she cried that it was because she was being kicked. The principle was not very happy with this info that I discovered. Sinse then she has been calling me every week with petty complaints of my son (complaints that are blown out of proportion and actions that are mis interpreted as violent behavior). For example: He drew a picture of a heavenly battle between demons and angels and the angels were decapitating the demons heads. It also depicted people burning in hell. This is not about my children as much as it is about the principle trying to proove a point that she has the power. I feel this in my spirit strongly. Every time I converse with her, this attitude is prevailent.
     
  5. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    +15
    Catholic
    Married
    To OnTheRock:

    I'm sorry you cannot see the problems that others see in your family. It is no reflection on you as a parent, or as a human being if you were to "give in" and participate in family counseling. It's my humble opinion that nearly every family on the face of the earth would benefit from counseling.

    The bottom line is this: your children, by law, must attend school. And the school works in conjunction with Social Services and the District Attorney's office, and by LAW, there are certain parameters they must follow. If the school has indicated they feel your children have problems, then you must show that you are cooperating and dealing with these problems. Unless you have an incredible amount of patience, money, and time to find a lawyer and pursue what you feel is a violation of your civil rights, you will have to do things their way.

    Lawsuits are expensive. And despite the impression you get from TV, there isn't a battalion of lawyers out there waiting to take your case for nothing, just to see that justice is served. Even the ACLU is picky about who they wish to defend. When our family experienced a flagrant violation of our civil rights, an inquiry to the ACLU just resulted in an invitation to a fund-raising event.

    It would be much easier just to get the counseling. I know this for certain: counseling rarely leaves you in worse shape than you were to begin with. But if you permit your family to be invaded by Social Services, you will NEVER, EVER be the same again.


    Peace be with you,
    ~VOW
     
  6. I can eat 50 eggs

    I can eat 50 eggs what we have here is a failure to communicate

    +16
    Christian
    Your lucky he's still in school, a death threat usually gets them kicked out. The problem is that that's the rule, they can't bend it for you or your kid. It's gonna be a rough lesson for him to learn, but hopefully it will make an impact.
     
  7. OntheRock

    OntheRock Member

    115
    +2
    You all watch too much tv. They're brothers ages 11 and 9. and they have an older brother age 11 1/2.

    As far as counciling goes, my mother has a masters in phsycology, so I get plenty of that.

    The problem with this situation is either 1.I drop out of college that I've spent about $2000 on, or 2. my wife quits her new job or gets fired. The alternative is that I let my son go to juvenile hall for however long they decide. They aren't sending us to counceling. They've just suspended him from the bus indefinitely and put him in an alternitive education school.

    A tough lesson for my son to learn? My son's learned his lesson. He can't play cowboys and indians anymore, or if he does he's not allowed to say he's going to kill the indians. Were do we draw the line? I'm talking about 2 brothers who play with action figures together and are always killing each others action figures. Are they going to outlaw action figures too?

    It's obvious that you all can't see the rediculousness of this.

    Thanks for the advice about lawyers and lawsuits, that is one option I'm already considering.

    Nobody has answered my question, though. Who sits above the super intendent? and then who sits above them? That is my first corse of action is to go up the chain of command.

    Again, were do we draw the line.
     
  8. jukesk9

    jukesk9 Dixie Whistlin' Papist

    +82
    Catholic
    Married
    US-Republican
    OntheRock,

    Here's my .02. I'm throwing this out there because I care.  These teachers, school officials, etc. have years and years of experience dealing with all sorts and different types of children and various backgrounds.  Ever since Columbine, schools across the nation are taking any type of death threats seriously, whether they may be joking or not.  So, you may see it as joking but the school does not.  I as a parent would be concerned if my child came home and told me his friends were joking about killing someone.  You can bet I would call the school.    You need to sit your children down and talk to them; tell them that this type of joking isn't appropriate. 

    For example: He drew a picture of a heavenly battle between demons and angels and the angels were decapitating the demons heads. It also depicted people burning in hell. This is not about my children as much as it is about the principle trying to proove a point that she has the power.

    I'm not trying to criticize you here.  But do you really want your children drawing decapitated demons?  Maybe there is a problem here and your child is trying to communicate something to you.  Sit down and talk.  You have nothing to lose.  Have an open mind rather than having your mind made up that this is harmless behavior. 

    What are your children watching?  I restrict Cartoon Network now because a lot of their programming is very violent.  My children do not get to watch the Toonami programming that is on (Dragon Ball Z, etc.).  Nor do they watch Pokemon, etc.  And no, I'm no bleeding heart liberal.  I have yet to vote for a Democrat.  But our children are influenced by what they watch, listen to, etc. etc. 

    Nobody has answered my question, though. Who sits above the super intendent? and then who sits above them? That is my first corse of action is to go up the chain of command.

    The School Board.  That's your first step.  Go to the next meeting and when it's the citizens' turn to speak, stand up and introduce yourself and the problems you're having.  They're the ones who sign the contracts with the principles, etc.  And you elect them. 

    The problem with this situation is either 1.I drop out of college that I've spent about $2000 on, or 2. my wife quits her new job or gets fired. The alternative is that I let my son go to juvenile hall for however long they decide.

    The key here is to talk to your children AND listen to them.  Your children come first.  They come before your needs and they come before your wife's needs and everybody else's needs.  They are the most important thing in the world.  So, if you have to take a semester or two off to work out the problems at home, then so be it.  Your $2000 hasn't been wasted because your grades are permanent.  They'll be there when you get back.  And, being married and with children, you should be classified as a non-traditional student.  Drop down to one or two classes instead of a full load. 

    Anyway, I hope I haven't upset you or offended you.  I haven't walked a mile in your shoes.  I'm just throwing out some advice.  I deal with family problems for a living but by no means am I an expert.  Just a Christian trying to help a brother out. 
     
  9. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    +15
    Catholic
    Married
    To OnTheRock:

    My advice is NOT from watching TV shows. It's from experience. When MY son was 9, and in third grade, he had a bad reaction from Ritalin and became violent. He attacked another child on the playground, and the school suspended him immediately. We took him to the the psychiatrist who was treating his ADD, and after a therapist talked with my son, the decision was made that he was IN A CRISIS, and needed to be hospitalized immediately. The therapist found in her discussion that my son said he wanted to kill himself, kill his sister, and was angry at the entire world.

    Children making threats are NOT playing games. They have the information and often the means at their fingertips to carry out these actions. Witness the news: in Arkansas, I believe, a young boy of the same age as we are discussing stole guns from his grandfather's gun cabinet and opened fire on a playground, killing a teacher and wounding his classmates.

    The world is a different place from when you and I were kids.



    Peace be with you,
    ~VOW
     
  10. OntheRock

    OntheRock Member

    115
    +2
    VOW wrote
    "Children making threats are NOT playing games."

    I'm sorry Vow, but you are completely wrong in your assesment of my son. He is not in any kind of crisis situation. and I am not in denial on this issue.


    Jukest9 wrote
    "I'm not trying to criticize you here. But do you really want your children drawing decapitated demons? Maybe there is a problem here and your child is trying to communicate something to you."
    "What are your children watching?"

    My boys love art, they draw any and everything. I don't see a problem with drawing a spiritual battle. They draw war seens all the time. Aliens invade earth, cool car crashes, the Titanic sinking with people drawning. There is no problem here this is normal behavior for them. Aslo, my children don't watch TV, much. We're pentacostal/UPC.

    Anyhow, I appreciate all of you trying to help, but I can see that there is no help or support here. You all are answering out of fear from past situations, not with heart or spirit.
    I can see were this world is going. We've thrown compasion out the window and replaced it with fear. This is not a trait of christianity. Nor is this world part of christianity. Have mercy on others as your father has had mercy on you.

    I am completely baffled by all of the lack of understanding and reasoning in all of you, and compassion. Are you all christians?, cause I have not seen one bit of christian advice, backed with the word.

    Anyhow, I may have found an answer. My mom, who has a masters in Psycology, also is a teacher. She is moving up to live with us. She says that she is going to pull all 3 of my boys out of school and home school them. I feel bad about walking away from this situation with out putting up a fight, but this is the Lord's way. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, and powers, and wickedness in high places.
     
  11. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    +15
    Catholic
    Married
    To OnTheRock:

    Your mother's solution sounds ideal. I'm pleased that option is available to you, and I pray for success in all your sons' endeavors.

    I have to take great offense at your declaration that we have no compassion. I spoke from my own personal experience, NOT from fear. It was out of compassion that I divulged a very painful moment in my past to share with you the fact I had an understanding of your situation that many others may not share. It wasn't easy for me to spill my guts like that, but I am genuinely concerned for you and your family.

    You need to recognize that when you ASK for advice, you run a chance of people not agreeing with the answers you may have already worked out inside your head. That doesn't make us wrong, nor does it deny our Christianity. To question our salvation because we didn't agree with you is painful. I know you are undergoing a trial right now, but it doesn't help anyone when you lash out at the people you have asked to assist you.


    Peace be with you,
    ~VOW
     
  12. LilyLamb

    LilyLamb The Lord is My Shepherd

    588
    +1
    I agree with the others - your children have some serious concerns - and as far as I can tell, the school acted properly.

    The Principal called me a few weeks ago to tell me that my 15 year old was being verbally abusive to another boy - apparently these two do not like each other and have done this for quite some time (news to me) - I was upset to find out that they did not inform me about this last year (different Principal) and to learn that if my son did not change his behavior he would/could be suspended. I am glad that our school has a zero tolerance policy - it's better for them to be too strict than to risk having something like Columbine happen.

    btw - my son turned in a four page "verse" assignment where he gave verses on what should/should not come out of the mouth - I only asked for a dozen - he wrote out almost twice that and how these verses spoke to him. He apologized to the boy and to me - he was very upset at how this damaged his witness. We grounded him until the end of the month.

    I don't blame the school for calling me - I'm glad they did - it's important to recognize a problem as soon as possible and nip it in the bud.

    If anything - getting counseling would show the school that you are taking this seriously - the counselor can be the one to tell them that there's no need to be concerned - if he/she truly thinks this.
     
  13. OntheRock

    OntheRock Member

    115
    +2
    Lilylamb wrote
    "your children have some serious concerns"

    My children have serious concerns? That's pretty good that you can tell that from my comments about a joke note and drawing habits. I'm not sure exactly what parts of what I've said makes some of you say my children have issues, concerns or are in a crisis of the mind.

    My death note writing boy is also a prankster as well as my others. They are always playing pranks on each other as well as on my wife and I: and my wife and I play pranks in return. We have a family rutine of playing pranks on each other. My killer boy also is into reading as well as my others, and reads many sci-fi and fantasy. He loves the Conan series and Peirce Anthony's Xanth novels. Comics are also on their list of reading. They also play Dungeons and Dragons. Killing monsters is part of the game. They love to draw the monsters (angels decapitating demons heads is just another one of their drawings, there's nothing abnormal about it with my kids, maybe if your kids drew it, it would be abnormal). My boys enjoy running around the house playing games like cops and robbers, yes, many times some one is killed in play. Yeah, they can be pretty graphic in their descriptions. That brings up the fact that they enjoy writing their own stories and comics. And yes, some of them are a little on the goar side. It is what they like. If I thought their was any dangers in any of this, you can rest assured that I would stop such activities. Did I mention the video games they play? Diablo, Or Die Trying, Twisted Metal, etc...

    Now, did I bother to tell you all that my boy didn't know that it was inappropriate to write such a note in school? Had he known it was wrong, he wouldn't have written it.

    VOW,
    I'm sorry if I have offended you. You've got to realize that you jumped on here and with boldness, declared that my son needs counciling and has a mental problem or crisis or serious issues. I stated once that you were wrong and you still continued. And yes, I take that as a personal attack against my family. I love my family and we all love each other, and I won't let my family be dragged through the mud. You made some assumptions that were wrong.

    Bottom line. I will make a note in my mental book that this is not the place to come for family or parenting advice. Thanks all.

    With all of the psycho babble any one's family can be tarnished and all need counciling. I suppose we also all need some kind of medication to keep our minds working right.
     
  14. lucypevensie

    lucypevensie Not drinking the kool-aid Supporter

    +20,392
    Christian
    Married
    I'm sorry you don't feel like you're getting the help you need, OnTheRock. I've been a member of this board for a long time and have known VOW and LilyLamb as long as I have been here. One thing I know about them, they are passionate about children. I've always had respect for them and their opinions, even though I haven't agreed100% all the time. Maybe thay have said some things that you disagreed with, but one thing I know--they are caring people. Caring people do not always tell us what we want to hear, nor will they always jump to our defense if they believe we are in the wrong.

    All we know about you is what you have written in your posts. So that is all we have to go on. Maybe you could tell us more...? I know that people here are willing to help you and pray for you if you will hear them out.

    I will pray for this situation too with your boys and school.
     
  15. Million Pieces

    Million Pieces SHMILY

    +2,814
    Christian
    Married
    Rock, what do you WANT us to say?? What advice do you WANT to hear?? That you're the poor little parent so unjustly abused by the establishment? Your little baby boys are just misunderstood angels who have bad days? They have never heard such language, you simply can't understand where they'd pick it up?? Yeah! Take it straight to the Board of Education!! Stick it to the Man, man!!! Go right to DC if you have to!! Stand up for your rights!!

    Your 11 year old son is playing D+D?? Oh good God, that explains a lot. He was never TOLD that notes like the one he sent to his brother would be frowned upon?? PUhleese. He's 11 years old, he shouldn't have to be TOLD that language like that is not appropriate. Would you allow him to talk to his brother like that at home? If you do, then it's just as well they're being home schooled from now on. Is it just teasing because they say so? Please use your adult judgement . . . what would happen if you "teased" someone at work or church in that way?? These boys are eventually going to take this stuff into adulthood, please keep that in mind. Someone HAS to tell them that it is not acceptable in society.  Not everyone is going to think they're "just teasing".  Obviously their school administration didn't.

    Good grief, the TV you say they watch, the video games they play, the BOARD games they play... and you think it's not having a negative impact on their lives?? Rock, I can't stress enough to you: This behaviour CAN NOT be allowed to continue. This kind of behaviour, if left unattended, will escalate. Beyond even what YOU think of it. So it doesn't happen at home (or it does and you find it normal for kids their age), does not mean it DOESN'T happen. Friend, these kids are in for serious trouble if this is not attended to immediately.

    You wanted Scriptures? Here's a couple....

    Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it. --- this is YOUR responsibility.

    Eph. 6:4 Fathers do not provoke your children to wrath, but bring them up in the training and admonition of the LORD". -- Are these Godly behaviours for children??

    Eph. 4:29, 31-32 (emphasis mine) Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good and for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. . . . Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you. --- This is THEIR responsibility. At 11 and 9, they are old enough to be taught this, and expected to observe it.

    Matt. 15:18-20 . . . those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts . . . These are the things which defile a man . . . " Rock, if your son is saying these things outwardly to his brother, even only once in a while, they must be in his heart. And that's the sad part.

    We are not ganging up on you. VOW and these others truly see something you are not. I am not going to judge your sons' natures by what you have written, but I will say that what you HAVE written shows disturbing tendencies toward future behaviour. From your first post, I was going to suggest they be put in different schools. If they can't play nicely together, separate them. It works when they're 2 on the playground, it works when they're teenagers too.

    I realize you're probably not going to take this advice either. You'll find ONE sentence in it that you don't like, throw it back at me and dismiss the whole thing. I've probably wasted a good 15 minutes of my evening that I'll never get back. But I believe it had to be said, on the off-chance you could see straight to read through it.

    I DO however, agree with you (imagine that!!!) regarding your son and the girl on the bus.  Unfortunately, I think I know where that came from.  Your family has already been labelled.  It's unfortunate, and yes, unfair, but that's the way it is.  ANY comment from any other child, parent or teacher is going to be blown way out from now on.  You can NOT beat that.  Don't try.  Don't admit defeat, either.  Be your sons' advocate.  Work as hard as you can to teach your kids, over and over, that they ARE loved greatly, and that they are VALUABLE young men.  They have been kicked down extremely harshly, they will need a LOT of positives to overcome that in their heads.  It's possible they will feel these injustices far more than even you might.  Young kids take so many things personally, and things like this are devastating.  Again, homeshcooling is probably the single best thing you can do for and with them at this point.  It's not admitting defeat, it's making a decision IN YOUR SONS' FAVOUR.

    edited to add last paragraph.
     
  16. sulphur

    sulphur thylacine

    920
    +0
    PITY the poor teachers. Fourty years ago my parents would have respected them for the professionals they are.I would not have sat down for a week. look to yourself
     
  17. Troy

    Troy Brother in Christ

    11
    +0
    OnTheRock,

    I have been reading a lot of subjects on this web site without responding, but this thread and the struggle your going through is leading me respond. I have two daughters of my own, even though they are not as old as your boys, I believe I can see your point of view.

    Unfortunatly I'm no expert in the school system, I have no answers that I can give you that will make everything okay. But maybe Jesus does.

    My biblical advice to you would be is to give this to God because he is the only one that has the right answers, and he will not let you and your family fall. (Paslm 55:22,Phil 4:6-7,Jeremiah 17:7-8) He will take care of this situation, everything will work out if you have faith that God will help you.

    Counseling is necessary, only dont go see a counselor, consult The Almighty, The Counselor of all counselors and The Bible for your answers.

    I'll keep you in my prayers, I know things will work out for you.

    Your brother in Christ..
    - Troy
     
  18. OntheRock

    OntheRock Member

    115
    +2
    Troy,
    thankyou for your words of encouragement. I don't visit hear much anymore.

    Jesus has been my awsome counciler through this. I was reminded of Job and how his supposed friends accused him of having some kind of sin.

    ==Why else would such a terrible thing happen? Surely their must be something wrong with my children.==
    These are lies from the devil.

    The situation is working out. I'm not getting involved with the battle. I have some one good on my side that knows the system. Pretty soon, the school will be afraid to lift a hand against my children.

    The school system in whole, is in a bad, bad state of condition. It's sad that this is were children are going to be sent to learn. So much power to be abused. Not only that, but the children are a sess pool of sin waiting to be passed on to good children.
     
  19. Troy

    Troy Brother in Christ

    11
    +0

    I'm glad everything is working out for you. I know how bad the school systems are, my wife and I are planning on homeschooling our two daughters. Its bad out there...

    (My wife is itching to use the computer, so can't write much. :rolleyes: )

    Your brother in Christ,

    -Troy
     
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