Parents pass on a partial "evolution" to their young, their young must complete it (selah)

Gottservant

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Hi there,

So I set out a long discussion of the implications of the young (only being partial expressions of the adult) and something crashed.

I basically made three points:

One: the young complete being partially formed, with instinct - because of irreducible complexity and the strong internal consistency of their form

Two: We know for a number of reasons, intuition, our parents and the constancy of God (generation to generation)

Three: It is claimed adults lead to adults of different kinds, but this is unfounded.

These three points are an about face of the Devil's work, to conflate the establishment of the cross with the lies of the past - as is a partial truth, but not justified for that.

The faith is able to come to an agreement, about how partial the young are; what the faith cannot do, is recognize the fullness of youth, before it physically becomes adult, which is a mystery - not a fact, not an expectation and not a delimiting.

Grasping that God made Man a mystery, we should be mindful of which Wisdom we turn to, once our attention for something has been asked of us (as Evolution asks us to believe, meaningful change is coming - not all change, just meaningful change).

Again, sorry I couldn't show you the original post, probably you will find my brevity here refreshing!

Thought experiment: how many partial evolutions is it, before you arrive at "evolution"?
 

Kylie

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Thought experiment: how many partial evolutions is it, before you arrive at "evolution"?

Again, your position is based on a misunderstanding of what evolution is.

One might as well ask how many partial walks to the kitchen it will take before I will complete my walk to the kitchen.

Evolution is a process. Either it is happening or it is not. There's no way to partially do it.
 
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Gottservant

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Man, I really thought you were coming around in that parasite post. I guess not, though. That's a shame.

I have been waiting and waiting to understand what is rational about parasites and I still haven't come across it. For some reason, if there is population of creatures all evolving the same way, people suddenly agree that Evolution is there... Jesus told us not to do that (in His context, that is, saying "He is there" or "He is in the inner rooms" from memory). It's not that I want to follow Him blindly, but I've never known Him to give bad advice.

Case in point, a host can radically effect a parasite's evolution, but if you ask what it is that drives Evolution without a host there is no answer?

I'm waiting for the cogs to lock in place, but at the same time I'm losing traction with what should be some sort of test of relevance.
 
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Gottservant

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Again, your position is based on a misunderstanding of what evolution is.

One might as well ask how many partial walks to the kitchen it will take before I will complete my walk to the kitchen.

Evolution is a process. Either it is happening or it is not. There's no way to partially do it.

Your example is sublime.

You are in a perfect position to tell me, what it is that gives Evolution traction at some points and not at others?

For example, did you always know to walk to the kitchen, or did you have to crawl first?
 
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Kylie

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Your example is sublime.

You are in a perfect position to tell me, what it is that gives Evolution traction at some points and not at others?

For example, did you always know to walk to the kitchen, or did you have to crawl first?

What in the world are you waffling about? This has nothing to do at all with evolutionary theory! You're going on about nonsense.
 
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Gottservant

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What you are saying makes no sense whatsoever.

Sure it does: you had a design, and you did not know what to do with it, until you experimented and evolved through a crawl (to a walk).

You didn't need to believe in Evolution, to believe you could crawl, but now that you have (crawled), knowing "Evolution" helped (that is, helped interpret your design).

What you didn't do, was say "I need to walk, therefore I will evolve through climbing trees".
 
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Kylie

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Sure it does: you had a design, and you did not know what to do with it, until you experimented and evolved through a crawl (to a walk).

You didn't need to believe in Evolution, to believe you could crawl, but now that you have, knowing "Evolution" helped (that is, helped interpret your design).

What you didn't do, was say "I need to walk, therefore I will evolve through climbing trees".

You miss my point.

You do not understand evolution. You are asking questions based on your idea of what evolution is, but the questions do not make sense when applied to what evolution actually is. Your idea of evolution is wrong. The whole point of this thread is built on a flawed premise. There is no such thing as "an evolution" - evolution is a process, it's not something that can be counted. You might as well ask how many motorings it takes for you to drive down the road to the supermarket.
 
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Gottservant

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You miss my point.

You do not understand evolution. You are asking questions based on your idea of what evolution is, but the questions do not make sense when applied to what evolution actually is. Your idea of evolution is wrong. The whole point of this thread is built on a flawed premise. There is no such thing as "an evolution" - evolution is a process, it's not something that can be counted. You might as well ask how many motorings it takes for you to drive down the road to the supermarket.

Yet with the same breath you dismiss quantification, you fail to establish faith, meaning or choice.

All these things are good, and you know they have meaning because Jesus has come into the world to convict it of not believing the difference.

When you learn to crawl "intellectually" I will be there saying "bravo!" because I have never held anything against Evolution establishing anything (in principle, that it can by design).
 
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Kylie

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Yet with the same breath you dismiss quantification, you fail to establish faith, meaning or choice.

All these things are good, and you know they have meaning because Jesus has come into the world to convict it of not believing the difference.

When you learn to crawl "intellectually" I will be there saying "bravo!" because I have never held anything against Evolution establishing anything (in principle, that it can by design).

Evolution is not a matter of faith.

Jesus has nothing to do with evolution.

You are trying to push the idea of evolution into your preconceived ideas, and it just won't fit.
 
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Gottservant

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Evolution is not a matter of faith.

Jesus has nothing to do with evolution.

You are trying to push the idea of evolution into your preconceived ideas, and it just won't fit.

Jesus holds Evolution 'together'.

The effective definition of Science, is the pursuit of mostly measurable goals - if you abandon this, you abandon the idea that it (and the facts Science develops) will either make you or break you in a way that is momentous.

Nothing momentous, nothing science (in principle).

You keep being told these things, and you keep kicking the wheel spinning for another round of unchanging disjunction - no one wants you to believe "Evolution" so much that you don't test alternative methods of interpretation (for the contexts in which they are valued).

Imagine there was no context in which faith was valued, would faith disappear? Or would value change? You see the impasse, there?
 
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Kylie

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Jesus holds Evolution 'together'.

There is no part of evolution that requires that Jesus holds it together. As I said, you are trying to force evolution to fit your preconceived ideas about what it SHOULD be. And your ideas about what is should be are just plain wrong.
 
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Gottservant

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Think about what "union" is: is it two people doing something else? Or is it neither one person nor two doing something partial?

Do you see this as backward? What if I put the order in the other direction, would you grasp a continuity of sorts?

The problem is Evolution is willing to put the horse before the cart, but it insists on going in the other direction, for the fact that harder work tests order more greatly - you are testing God! That's not wrong, but honour the terms on which you are doing the testing!

If I got to Heaven and found all the partial "Evolutions" that never got completed, would I be miserable that it was too late to save them, or would I be rejoicing that I was in Heaven?! Do you see the imbalance there?
 
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Gottservant

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There is no part of evolution that requires that Jesus holds it together. As I said, you are trying to force evolution to fit your preconceived ideas about what it SHOULD be. And your ideas about what is should be are just plain wrong.

No it's just a fact. Jesus makes it possible for everyone to be included - without everyone being included, there would be nothing to discover.

I know you are a descendent of Adam, but you do not ask the questions that Adam asked - I'm not going to say that means you are lying to yourself, but suffice it to say that truth is getting lost somewhere.

Why did your forefather eat the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil? So that he would forget the connection between cause and retribution for failing to honour "cause"? Do you see the ridiculous there?
 
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Kylie

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Think about what "union" is: is it two people doing something else? Or is it neither one person nor two doing something partial?

Do you see this as backward? What if I put the order in the other direction, would you grasp a continuity of sorts?

The problem is Evolution is willing to put the horse before the cart, but it insists on going in the other direction, for the fact that harder work tests order more greatly - you are testing God! That's not wrong, but honour the terms on which you are doing the testing!

If I got to Heaven and found all the partial "Evolutions" that never got completed, would I be miserable that it was too late to save them, or would I be rejoicing that I was in Heaven?! Do you see the imbalance there?

You still insist on treating evolution as a religion, and trying to incorporate Christianity into evolution. You will never understand evolution so long as you keep trying to do that.
 
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Kylie

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No it's just a fact. Jesus makes it possible for everyone to be included - without everyone being included, there would be nothing to discover.

I know you are a descendent of Adam, but you do not ask the questions that Adam asked - I'm not going to say that means you are lying to yourself, but suffice it to say that truth is getting lost somewhere.

Why did your forefather eat the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil? So that he would forget the connection between cause and retribution for failing to honour "cause"? Do you see the ridiculous there?

Again, you are trying to force your religious beliefs into evolution. Evolution simply doesn't work that way. It's not a religion, stop trying to make it act as one.
 
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Gottservant

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I know there is a difference between varying something, and taking it seriously as it is, because the words of Jesus vary, but don't lose their theme.

All that Jesus said revolved around the coming of the Holy Spirit, therefore if people use other words to suggest that the Holy Spirit is not coming, I know they are lying.

The Holy Spirit is the epitome of applying what Jesus said, to life - you can't take away from His Evolution, only add to it.
 
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