Parallels of the old and new Testaments.

[Lotar]

The purpose of communion is parallel to the Passover. It is to remember. The Passover was to remember how God freed the Jews from slavery to Egypt, and communion is to remember how Christ freed us from our slavery to sin. Just as in the Passover meal, one must be prepare and worthy to partake communion.

Deuteronomy 16:1-3
"Observe the month of Abib and celebrate the Passover to the LORD your God, for in the month of Abib the LORD your God brought you out of Egypt by night.
"You shall sacrifice the Passover to the LORD your God from the flock and the herd, in the place where the LORD chooses to establish His name.
"You shall not eat leavened bread with it; seven days you shall eat with it unleavened bread, the bread of affliction (for you came out of the land of Egypt in haste), so that you may remember all the days of your life the day when you came out of the land of Egypt.
Luke 22:19-20
And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me."
And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.



As in this example, we see that when a new sacrament is instituted in the New Testament, it has a parallel Old Testament sacrament it replaces. Communion is parallel to Passover, and Baptism is parallel to Circumcision


Like baptism, circumcision was a symbol of God's word, and what is taking place in the person's heart.

Genesis 17:9-11
And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
This [is] my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.


Jeremiah 4:4
Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench [it], because of the evil of your doings.


Just like baptism, circumcision is profitless without faith.
Romans 4:9-12
[Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which [he had yet] being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which [he had] being [yet] uncircumcised.


If all this is so, then why would you deny your children baptism? Though circumcision was profitless without faith children were still circumcised, there was no waiting for them to make their own choice.

Genesis 17:11-14
And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which [is] not of thy seed.

 

[JVAC]

Amen Brother!

 

[Lotar]

Wow! Look at all the replies
I'm thinking either the title is too boring, my post was to long, or everyone agrees with me. I'll assume everyone agrees with me

 

[danceforjoy]

Hi Lotar
you are right, there is nothing to argue against, you said it perfectly and we praise Jesus for being that Lamb willingly and lovingly led to the slaughter for us.
Perhaps we could discuss on what the old covenant is compared to the new and what the slavery of sin is Jesus freed us from?
There are also tonnes of other scripture paralells that we could dig up.
danceforjoy



>Unless God has all of your heart, the devil has a part<

 

[Phoebe]

May I add some of Luther's thought to this?

"Without question, a testament (covenant) is a promise made by a man in view of his death. In it, he bequeths his heritage, and appoints heirs. A testament, therefore: a) anticipates the death of the testator; b)embodies the promise of the heritage; and c) appoints heirs. That is how Paul discusses a testament at length in Romans 4, Galatians 3 and 4, and Hebrews 9. The words of Christ show the same quite plainly. Christ testifies of His own death when He says: 'This is my blood which is shed.' He names and designates the bequest when He says, 'In remission of sins.' Similarly, He appoints the heirs when He says,''For you and for many', i.e. those who accept, and believe in, the promise of the testator. Faith here makes men heirs, as we shall see."
(Pagan Servitude of the Church)

 

[Lotar]

Bumpity bump

 

[BBAS 64]

Lotar

For me this seems to raise more questions than answers. That may be because I am not one of you mighty Lutherans that rock this board on a weekly basis.



BBAS

 

[Cary.Melvin]

The purpose of communion is parallel to the Passover. It is to remember. The Passover was to remember how God freed the Jews from slavery to Egypt, and communion is to remember how Christ freed us from our slavery to sin. Just as in the Passover meal, one must be prepare and worthy to partake communion.

Deuteronomy 16:1-3
"Observe the month of Abib and celebrate the Passover to the LORD your God, for in the month of Abib the LORD your God brought you out of Egypt by night.
"You shall sacrifice the Passover to the LORD your God from the flock and the herd, in the place where the LORD chooses to establish His name.
"You shall not eat leavened bread with it; seven days you shall eat with it unleavened bread, the bread of affliction (for you came out of the land of Egypt in haste), so that you may remember all the days of your life the day when you came out of the land of Egypt.
Luke 22:19-20
And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me."
And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.



As in this example, we see that when a new sacrament is instituted in the New Testament, it has a parallel Old Testament sacrament it replaces. Communion is parallel to Passover, and Baptism is parallel to Circumcision


Like baptism, circumcision was a symbol of God's word, and what is taking place in the person's heart.

Genesis 17:9-11
And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
This [is] my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.


Jeremiah 4:4
Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench [it], because of the evil of your doings.


Just like baptism, circumcision is profitless without faith.
Romans 4:9-12
[Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which [he had yet] being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which [he had] being [yet] uncircumcised.


If all this is so, then why would you deny your children baptism? Though circumcision was profitless without faith children were still circumcised, there was no waiting for them to make their own choice.

Genesis 17:11-14
And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which [is] not of thy seed.

Looks good to me. Amen.

 

[Lotar]

Lotar

For me this seems to raise more questions than answers. That may be because I am not one of you mighty Lutherans that rock this board on a weekly basis.



BBAS

More questions? I thought I answered them all

Don't worry, you learn

 

[danceforjoy]

Perhaps I can add another important one. If it has already been covered tell me.
The old covenant was progressive. First with Abraham in which all nations would be blessed, i.e. us Gentiles. Then came Moses and he was given a sanctuary temple to built where the sacrificial system really elaborated on God's mercy and forgiveness by the innocent little "Lamb" found later nailed to the cruel cross of Calvary by which we all are guilty.
God's mercy was further illustrated by naming His throne the "Mercy Seat" and of pure gold placed on top of the ark of the covenant. Inside the ark was and still is today, the holy moral law of the TenCommandments written by God Himself with His own finger.
According to the new testament (Hebrews 8:1-5), that box with the rocks are now in the new covenant/testament in heaven. Had the law been so easily set aside, Jesus needed not have died. But both old and new tesatments demonstrates the validity of what many modern Christians are now denying.
By the forgiveness of sin, love for the morals of God get written into our new hearts softened by God's Holy Spirit of truth rather then on cold stony hearts (2.Cor.3). We are so priveledged to have Jesus take our place as th "Lamb of God" which taketh away our sins, which is the transgression of the moral law. This parallel is beautiful as is Jesus to us today. Our hearts rejoice and I am jumping and dancing for joy.

 

[orthedoxy]

The purpose of communion is parallel to the Passover. It is to remember. The Passover was to remember how God freed the Jews from slavery to Egypt, and communion is to remember how Christ freed us from our slavery to sin. Just as in the Passover meal, one must be prepare and worthy to partake communion.

Deuteronomy 16:1-3
"Observe the month of Abib and celebrate the Passover to the LORD your God, for in the month of Abib the LORD your God brought you out of Egypt by night.
"You shall sacrifice the Passover to the LORD your God from the flock and the herd, in the place where the LORD chooses to establish His name.
"You shall not eat leavened bread with it; seven days you shall eat with it unleavened bread, the bread of affliction (for you came out of the land of Egypt in haste), so that you may remember all the days of your life the day when you came out of the land of Egypt.
Luke 22:19-20
And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me."
And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.



As in this example, we see that when a new sacrament is instituted in the New Testament, it has a parallel Old Testament sacrament it replaces. Communion is parallel to Passover, and Baptism is parallel to Circumcision


Like baptism, circumcision was a symbol of God's word, and what is taking place in the person's heart.

Genesis 17:9-11
And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
This [is] my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.


Jeremiah 4:4
Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench [it], because of the evil of your doings.


Just like baptism, circumcision is profitless without faith.
Romans 4:9-12
[Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which [he had yet] being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which [he had] being [yet] uncircumcised.


If all this is so, then why would you deny your children baptism? Though circumcision was profitless without faith children were still circumcised, there was no waiting for them to make their own choice.

Genesis 17:11-14
And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which [is] not of thy seed.

How is gen 17:14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant."
How is this a parallel? does this mean infants that are not baptised are not Christians?

 

[JVAC]

That is a good asesment. There is no salvation for Christians apart from Christ. Therefore, the people who refuse his name, will be refused by him. You know, it is not enough to just call him "Lord, Lord,".

 

[Markh]

I like the parallel that Moses was told that his people should eat the lamb in Exodus to be protected against the angel of death12

Just like Jesus told us to eat his flesh in order to receive eternal life 6:54

both literally.

 

[tigersnare]

If all this is so, then why would you deny your children baptism? Though circumcision was profitless without faith children were still circumcised, there was no waiting for them to make their own choice.

Genesis 17:11-14
And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which [is] not of thy seed.

Well like you just said, err the Bible said, God commanded the 8 year old infants to be circumsised. Unfortuanly no such explicit commandment like this in the N.T....unless I skipped a book...or two, or I could just be wrong.

But I can agree with you about baptising children only on the grounds that they are taught that it was a baptism of water not of the holy spirit and water baptism by itself is profitless without faith. I think that's where alot of....people...errr christians...err...go wrong. They think because they were baptisted in thier mighty Church that they are justified, and no one ever told them any better growing up.

 

[theseed]

Like baptism, circumcision was a symbol of God's word, and what is taking place in the person's heart.

And how do we know what is taking place in an infants heart? And if it is a symbol that is faith, then why not wait until a profession of faith is made? (Romans 10.9-13). Plus, baptism differs from circumicsion in this, it is a public testimony. Circumcision was not. Can infants make a public testimony of faith?

 

[Lotar]

Well like you just said, err the Bible said, God commanded the 8 year old infants to be circumsised. Unfortuanly no such explicit commandment like this in the N.T....unless I skipped a book...or two, or I could just be wrong.

But I can agree with you about baptising children only on the grounds that they are taught that it was a baptism of water not of the holy spirit and water baptism by itself is profitless without faith. I think that's where alot of....people...errr christians...err...go wrong. They think because they were baptisted in thier mighty Church that they are justified, and no one ever told them any better growing up.

Actually it was 8 days old

There is no explicit NT command on this, though there are accounts of whole households being baptized, which may or may not have included infants. All we know is that the president was to baptise infants, as the early church did baptize their infants.

 

[Lotar]

And how do we know what is taking place in an infants heart?

How do we know what is going on in anyone's heart?

And if it is a symbol that is faith, then why not wait until a profession of faith is made? (Romans 10.9-13).

Who said it's just a symbol?
Is it impossible for an infant to believe? John the baptist knew and believed before he was born. (Luke 1:44)

Plus, baptism differs from circumicsion in this, it is a public testimony. Circumcision was not. Can infants make a public testimony of faith?

Circumcision was a public testimony, God Himself said as much. It was by circumsicion that His people would be known.

 

[tigersnare]

Actually it was 8 days old

Whoops....that was my 20 year old infant-ness coming out in me...Me don't proof read so well.

There is no explicit NT command on this, though there are accounts of whole households being baptized, which may or may not have included infants.

This is what makes me agree with it on certain terms, but disagree on other terms. I'm split...

 

[JVAC]

The thought you must ask yourself, tigersnare, is this; does a person rely on his faith in a sacrament or does he rely on God's grace?

It must be God's Grace, and, therefore, it is not up to our believing in the Sacrament as much as it is the God choosing us to give to us the Sacrament of His Grace. In the Sacrament we are not choosing God, He is choosing us. Wether we are a unbeliever or a believer God still gives us His Grace. The Sacrament to be valid, therefore, depends solely on God and not on man!

However, it is the man's responsibility to have faith and be faithful, ye this is not accomplished by the Holy Sacraments, for that is God's actions. We must live by faith to fulfill that other part of Mark 16:16 where we must believe, that is do our part in the relationship, and be baptized, that is let God do his part in our relationship. This is the important aspect, we must realize that it is not about us choosing God in the Sacrametns, that belongs elsewhere, the Sacraments are solely God choosing us!

Granted one might choose to go to communion, but that doesn't change the fact that God is offering himself for that one, and for many.

 

[Phoebe]

It also depends on how you view baptism. Is it a work of God, or a work of Man?

Lutherans view it as a work of God.