Parallel universe theory in quantum mechanics

[usexpat97]

Now THIS I would consider non-mainstream science. And it impacts theology:

Parallel Universes and the Many-Worlds Theory - Universe Today


We have a small number of respected physicists--and by "respected" I mean these are the same physicists who brought about the field of Quantum Mechanics in the first place, and had their peers experimentally verify their claims--theorize that every time you measure a quantum particle, you spawn a parallel universe. In other words if an unknown quantum particle is positive half the time and negative half the time, as soon as you measure it, you spawn off two universes: one where it is positive, the other where it is negative. Which naturally results in an extremely high number of parallel universes.

This parallel universe by definition has to interact with this one, since the measurement of the particle in this universe caused it. So that means, in theory, experimental physicists ought to be able to come up with an experiment which tests the theory.


This, if true, could seriously impact theology, since this could make us all human Schroedinger's Cats, where if we die we go to Heaven and Hell at the same time. Or in 50% of the parallel universes you go to Hell, and the other 50% you go to Heaven. But then again maybe we don't really understand what exactly a said "parallel universe" is.

I don't personally espouse this theory. But no one's experimentally disproved it yet....

 

[Andrewn]

This, if true, could seriously impact theology, since this could make us all human Schroedinger's Cats, where if we die we go to Heaven and Hell at the same time. Or in 50% of the parallel universes you go to Hell, and the other 50% you go to Heaven. But then again maybe we don't really understand what exactly a said "parallel universe" is.

The theological implications of Parallel Universe Theory are different from what you said. I don't think that "in 50% of the parallel universes you go to Hell, and the other 50% you go to Heaven." I think we go to heaven or hell based on the average of all these universes.

This would be true justice.

 

[Uber Genius]

This parallel universe by definition has to interact with this one, since the measurement of the particle in this universe caused it. So that means, in theory, experimental physicists ought to be able to come up with an experiment which tests the theory.

Sean Carroll is one of the supporters of Everett's interpretation. He points out that the two postulates below can be tested.

1. The world is described by a quantum state, which is an element of a kind of vector space known as Hilbert space.
2. The quantum state evolves through time in accordance with the Schrödinger equation, with some particular Hamiltonian.

The part that is not testable is as Carroll states, "The worlds are there whether you like it or not, sitting in Hilbert space, waiting to see whether they become actualized in the course of the evolution." He later states that, "You don’t hold it against a theory if it makes some predictions that can’t be tested. Every theory does that."

What are we not getting here?

The use of the word exist is an equivocation. Hilbert space is a mathematical construct. What Carroll is saying essentially is the math works. We can test a theory by seeing if the math works. And in fact we can see that since about 1900 math has dominated physics. Especially quantum physics. But what is missed by many laymen is the fact that more math fails to correlate to the real world than correlates. We continue to have to test whether predictions are falsifiable in any way. In the MWI the fact that other worlds could be produced IS NOT TESTABLE. The fact that the math works and these worlds "wait in hilbert space (an abstract object) to be actualized" is absurd.

Like inflationary cosmology suggests a multiverse is similarly untestable due to the lack of interaction between such universes, so too Everett's model, we can get the math to work but no empirical data can be investigated one way or the other.

P.S. Schrodinger's cat is a ruse. It makes a category error conflating ontology (what is) with epistemology (what one can know). Some think he did this on purpose to mock his fellow QM practitioners due to their lack of philosophy of science acumen.

No theological mods necessary.

 

[solid_core]

Now THIS I would consider non-mainstream science. And it impacts theology:

Parallel Universes and the Many-Worlds Theory - Universe Today


We have a small number of respected physicists--and by "respected" I mean these are the same physicists who brought about the field of Quantum Mechanics in the first place, and had their peers experimentally verify their claims--theorize that every time you measure a quantum particle, you spawn a parallel universe. In other words if an unknown quantum particle is positive half the time and negative half the time, as soon as you measure it, you spawn off two universes: one where it is positive, the other where it is negative. Which naturally results in an extremely high number of parallel universes.

This parallel universe by definition has to interact with this one, since the measurement of the particle in this universe caused it. So that means, in theory, experimental physicists ought to be able to come up with an experiment which tests the theory.


This, if true, could seriously impact theology, since this could make us all human Schroedinger's Cats, where if we die we go to Heaven and Hell at the same time. Or in 50% of the parallel universes you go to Hell, and the other 50% you go to Heaven. But then again maybe we don't really understand what exactly a said "parallel universe" is.

I don't personally espouse this theory. But no one's experimentally disproved it yet....

What do you mean by "you"? You are not the particles and you are not just your body. You are the soul that is experiencing and thinking. And you are right here right now, in this space time.

 

[usexpat97]

What do you mean by "you"? You are not the particles and you are not just your body. You are the soul that is experiencing and thinking. And you are right here right now, in this space time.

Quantumly speaking, you are *A* particle. A bunch of elementary particles acting spontaneously as one macroscopic quantum wave function. At least, that is the atheistic interpretation. And personally I am okay with separating the religious from the scientific at times.

 

[solid_core]

Quantumly speaking, you are *A* particle. A bunch of elementary particles acting spontaneously as one macroscopic quantum wave function. At least, that is the atheistic interpretation. And personally I am okay with separating the religious from the scientific at times.

Soul is immaterial, like God, ideas, abstract objects or thoughts.

Only our bodies are of particles.

 

[usexpat97]

The theological implications of Parallel Universe Theory are different from what you said. I don't think that "in 50% of the parallel universes you go to Hell, and the other 50% you go to Heaven." I think we go to heaven or hell based on the average of all these universes.

This would be true justice.

Judgement Day could reasonably be analogized to constitute "making a measurement". In the quantum world, if a particle is 30% positive and 70% negative, it will never measure out to be 0.3 positive, or 100% negative 100% of the time. It will measure out 100% positive 30% of the time, and 100% negative 70% of the time. So at least according to this approach, your fate would not be a weight of the averages.

 

[usexpat97]

Soul is immaterial, like God, ideas, abstract objects or thoughts.

Only our bodies are of particles.

That is all good, but in that community, you made a theory. Which is welcomed, but now let's look to you to form an experiment.

Scientific thought and religious thought (particularly, that of belief and faith) are two divergent lines of thought here. That is not to say one is right or wrong: reality can co-exist in them both, one of them, or neither.



edit: Come to think of it, now that I realize your reasoning a little better, I should say it this way: while YOU may be an immaterial soul, your decision to accept Christ is a product of the environment all around you. Molecules around you bounce in a different way, and...bam! That chance encounter with that Christian stranger on the train in a parallel universe never happened.

 

[Andrewn]

It will measure out 100% positive 30% of the time, and 100% negative 70% of the time. So at least according to this approach, your fate would not be a weight of the averages.

Then one may be in heaven 70% of the time and in hell 30% of the time .

 

[Halbhh]

Now THIS I would consider non-mainstream science. And it impacts theology:

Parallel Universes and the Many-Worlds Theory - Universe Today


We have a small number of respected physicists--and by "respected" I mean these are the same physicists who brought about the field of Quantum Mechanics in the first place, and had their peers experimentally verify their claims--theorize that every time you measure a quantum particle, you spawn a parallel universe. In other words if an unknown quantum particle is positive half the time and negative half the time, as soon as you measure it, you spawn off two universes: one where it is positive, the other where it is negative. Which naturally results in an extremely high number of parallel universes.

This parallel universe by definition has to interact with this one, since the measurement of the particle in this universe caused it. So that means, in theory, experimental physicists ought to be able to come up with an experiment which tests the theory.


This, if true, could seriously impact theology, since this could make us all human Schroedinger's Cats, where if we die we go to Heaven and Hell at the same time. Or in 50% of the parallel universes you go to Hell, and the other 50% you go to Heaven. But then again maybe we don't really understand what exactly a said "parallel universe" is.

I don't personally espouse this theory. But no one's experimentally disproved it yet....

There are a huge number of competing theories trying to go past Copenhagen.

Have a look at this list.
Headings having multiple theories each:

Interpretations of quantum mechanics - Wikipedia

See? The many worlds speculation is only another speculation among very many competing ideas. It's nothing special in my view.

 

[usexpat97]

There are a huge number of competing theories trying to go past Copenhagen..

I still can't even get past local realism.

 

[ZNP]

This, if true, could seriously impact theology, since this could make us all human Schroedinger's Cats, where if we die we go to Heaven and Hell at the same time. Or in 50% of the parallel universes you go to Hell, and the other 50% you go to Heaven. But then again maybe we don't really understand what exactly a said "parallel universe" is.

I don't personally espouse this theory. But no one's experimentally disproved it yet....

Are you trying to be funny? I have 10 fingers, if they were cut off do you think God is going to judge each of these fingers separately? How about my toe nails, do they go to heaven and get judged? It is the soul that gets judged, not some particles. All this demonstrates is that the physical world is vanity, a mist that disappears.

 

[usexpat97]

Are you trying to be funny? I have 10 fingers, if they were cut off do you think God is going to judge each of these fingers separately? How about my toe nails, do they go to heaven and get judged? It is the soul that gets judged, not some particles. All this demonstrates is that the physical world is vanity, a mist that disappears.

Re: Post #8.

 

[ZNP]

Re: Post #8.

You want an experiment to test this? A few years ago Life Magazine did a cover story on children who had been resuscitated from the dead. They chose very young children because they didn't want them influenced by what they had read or been taught. They chose children from all over the world, different family backgrounds, religions, cultures, languages, etc. The children were asked to draw a picture of what they saw, and they had experiences of meeting Jesus, even if their religion was not Christian. This to me demonstrates another "universe". To design an experiment you could do what they did in the movie "Flatliners" a highly unethical experiment to test if there is life after death.

 

[usexpat97]

You want an experiment to test this? A few years ago Life Magazine did a cover story on children who had been resuscitated from the dead. They chose very young children because they didn't want them influenced by what they had read or been taught. They chose children from all over the world, different family backgrounds, religions, cultures, languages, etc. The children were asked to draw a picture of what they saw, and they had experiences of meeting Jesus, even if their religion was not Christian. This to me demonstrates another "universe". To design an experiment you could do what they did in the movie "Flatliners" a highly unethical experiment to test if there is life after death.

That is a good experiment to test the existence of a theology, and of *A* parallel universe which interacts with this one, but it does not test the hypothesis of whether the measurement of a photon spin spawns a parallel universe. Or that the measurement of three photon spins would spawn 2^3=8 parallel universes.

 

[hedrick]

Then there's William Lane Craig, who thinks the only people who are damned are those who suffer from transworld damnation, meaning that in any world that God could actually create they would reject God. This is his way to avoid accusations that damnation is unjust because someone might have grown up in a situation where they never had a chance.

 

[Halbhh]

I still can't even get past local realism.

Like me, and many, you'd perhaps like a more sensible seeming theory that's part way there like a pilot wave theory
De Broglie–Bohm theory - Wikipedia

It hit a snag in recent experiments though:
Famous Experiment Dooms Pilot-Wave Alternative to Quantum Weirdness | Quanta Magazine
But i wonder if they used a larger tank or other changes, if it might matter.

But I don't expect it necessarily. Like Many Worlds, it has no clear evidence yet...But unlike Many Worlds, it does have some suggestive evidence.

 

[ZNP]

That is a good experiment to test the existence of a theology, and of *A* parallel universe which interacts with this one, but it does not test the hypothesis of whether the measurement of a photon spin spawns a parallel universe. Or that the measurement of three photon spins would spawn 2^3=8 parallel universes.

Unless you can show that God's judgement is on quantum particles rather than the human soul how does this theory in any way impact theology, a major premise of the first post and the reason this thread is on this forum?

 

[Andrewn]

Then there's William Lane Craig, who thinks the only people who are damned are those who suffer from transworld damnation, meaning that in any world that God could actually create they would reject God. This is his way to avoid accusations that damnation is unjust because someone might have grown up in a situation where they never had a chance.

This reminds me of Luis de Molina (1535-1600 AD). His theory is genius.

 

[hedrick]

This reminds me of Luis de Molina (1535-1600 AD). His theory is genius.

Yes. Craig is largely Molinist