Paradoxical question

[BibleBeliever1611]

What if you were presenting the gospel to an atheist, and the atheist said: "But I don't want to do any works."

What would you say to a person like that? Would you tell him that...
1) he can still get saved anyways, or
2) he cannot get saved unless he changes his attitude?

If you say that he can still get saved, then you are teaching easy-believism and giving him a licence to sin (because he is not willing to do any works whatsoever). But if you say that he cannot get saved, then you are teaching him works-based salvation. So what would be the right answer?

Often times easy-believism and/or "licence to sin" is believed to be a heresy. But works-based salvation is also believed to be a heresy. But it seems like in this case you are forced to pick either one.

 

[DebbieJ]

Predestination. The Lord chooses people for salvation and not men who made the choice.

 

[pescador]

All that is necessary to be saved is to believe in Christ's sacrifice for your sins. " For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16

 

[Dansiph]

What if you were presenting the gospel to an atheist, and the atheist said: "But I don't want to do any works."

What would you say to a person like that? Would you tell him that...
1) he can still get saved anyways, or
2) he cannot get saved unless he changes his attitude?

If you say that he can still get saved, then you are teaching easy-believism and giving him a licence to sin (because he is not willing to do any works whatsoever). But if you say that he cannot get saved, then you are teaching him works-based salvation. So what would be the right answer?

Often times easy-believism and/or "licence to sin" is believed to be a heresy. But works-based salvation is also believed to be a heresy. But it seems like in this case you are forced to pick either one.

I would tell the atheist number one. I don't have a problem with easy-believism.

 

[timothyu]

Jesus said to put the will of the Father before our own, thus loving all as self. You are either with the program or you are not. There is no manipulation of this for religious purposes.

 

[Arc F1]

What if you were presenting the gospel to an atheist, and the atheist said: "But I don't want to do any works."

What would you say to a person like that? Would you tell him that...
1) he can still get saved anyways, or
2) he cannot get saved unless he changes his attitude?

If you say that he can still get saved, then you are teaching easy-believism and giving him a licence to sin (because he is not willing to do any works whatsoever). But if you say that he cannot get saved, then you are teaching him works-based salvation. So what would be the right answer?

Often times easy-believism and/or "licence to sin" is believed to be a heresy. But works-based salvation is also believed to be a heresy. But it seems like in this case you are forced to pick either one.

I vote for more options.

 

[public hermit]

Tell the atheist, "As long as you're sucking air in this world, you've got to do something everyday. It might as well be good. So, quit your whining." Then, explain to them the gospel of grace and how "works" relate to that.

 

[pescador]

Tell the atheist, "As long as you're sucking air in this world, you've got to do something everyday. It might as well be good. So, quit your whining." Then, explain to them the gospel of grace and how "works" relate to that.

Very nice ... not!

 

[public hermit]

Very nice ... not!

I said it with a smile. If I was feeling really generous towards someone who didn't feel like doing anything good, I might even add a "Bless your heart." It's all in the presentation.

 

[BibleBeliever1611]

Tell the atheist, "As long as you're sucking air in this world, you've got to do something everyday. It might as well be good. So, quit your whining." Then, explain to them the gospel of grace and how "works" relate to that.

Either there are works, or there are no works. Those are the only logical possibilities.

 

[public hermit]

Either there are works, or there are no works. Those are the only logical possibilities.

Are you sure? Can there not be works done from a heart transformed by grace? These are not effecacious for salvation but the fruit of salvation. Is that not a possibility?

You have not presented a paradox, only a false dilemma. Grace produces works of the Spirit. That's the third option for which you have not allowed.

 

[BibleBeliever1611]

Are you sure? Can there not be works done from a heart transformed by grace? These are not effecacious for salvation but the fruit of salvation. Is that not a possibility?

Of course there can be. But you can't say that salvation is "by works" and "not by works" both at the same time. That doesn't make any sense.

 

[Dansiph]

What if you were presenting the gospel to an atheist, and the atheist said: "But I don't want to do any works."

What would you say to a person like that? Would you tell him that...
1) he can still get saved anyways, or
2) he cannot get saved unless he changes his attitude?

If you say that he can still get saved, then you are teaching easy-believism and giving him a licence to sin (because he is not willing to do any works whatsoever). But if you say that he cannot get saved, then you are teaching him works-based salvation. So what would be the right answer?

Often times easy-believism and/or "licence to sin" is believed to be a heresy. But works-based salvation is also believed to be a heresy. But it seems like in this case you are forced to pick either one.

The real paradox is that easy-believism is true however it's so hard people can't do it. It's easy to be saved because Jesus did the hard part but it's hard for people to believe it.

 

[public hermit]

Of course there can be. But you can't say that salvation is "by works" and "not by works" both at the same time. That doesn't make any sense.

True, I understand your point. But to say either one of those would be to tell half the story. If an atheist came to me with that concern, I would be sure to explain the whole package so that it would be clear. A heart transformed by grace will produce good works.

My initial comment probably wasn't all that helpful; although, I wouldn't hesitate to give an atheist who phrased it that way some friendly grief over it. Nonetheless, I would give a "both...and" response. Both grace and works, the later follows from the first. And then I might say, "You may not feel like doing good works now, but when your heart is filled with the love and grace of Christ you will."

 

[eleos1954]

What if you were presenting the gospel to an atheist, and the atheist said: "But I don't want to do any works."

What would you say to a person like that? Would you tell him that...
1) he can still get saved anyways, or
2) he cannot get saved unless he changes his attitude?

If you say that he can still get saved, then you are teaching easy-believism and giving him a licence to sin (because he is not willing to do any works whatsoever). But if you say that he cannot get saved, then you are teaching him works-based salvation. So what would be the right answer?

Often times easy-believism and/or "licence to sin" is believed to be a heresy. But works-based salvation is also believed to be a heresy. But it seems like in this case you are forced to pick either one.

The gospel ... no works in it ...

The gospel is the truth that we are all sinners or criminals before God, and under the sentence of eternal death or separation from God (our creator) and all that is good. In his love for us, God the Father sent God the Son to earth to become a man.

Jesus was born without a sin nature, and lived a sinless life. He allowed himself to be crucified, and as he hung on the cross, God the Father took all of my sins (and yours), put them on Jesus and punished him in my (our) place.

Jesus took the wrath of God for me (and you), and he died. His body was placed in a tomb, and on the third day he came back from the dead, never to die again.

God in his love and grace has overcome our two enemies of sin and death, and those who acknowledge to Jesus that they are sinners, and trust him to save them from eternal condemnation are forgiven their sins and given the gift of life eternal with God.

It's not so much about this life .... but the next one.

Eternity ... think about it.

 

[timothyu]

Either there are works, or there are no works. Those are the only logical possibilities.

What do the doctrines of man have to do with the commandments of Jesus?

 

[BibleBeliever1611]

If an atheist came to me with that concern, I would be sure to explain the whole package so that it would be clear. A heart transformed by grace will produce good works.

Why would that be necessary if getting saved requires no works? Life after salvation is a different issue.

 

[timothyu]

Jesus doing what was necessary to make the Kingdom of God a reality was the world's salvation. What is required of us to be in the book of life so that we may be a part of that Kingdom under the will of God, is another matter.

 

[public hermit]

Why would that be necessary if getting saved requires no works? Life after salvation is a different issue.

It would be necessary, in my mind, because it would be the appropriate response to the question that was asked. Maybe I'm taking your hypothetical too seriously?

Would you respond to that question by saying, "No works are necessary for salvation, just believe." I guess that might work if you're just trying to get another notch in your evangelism belt. But would that be a fair response to an atheist who doesn't want to do good works? What would your response be if that same atheist comes to you with questions about counting the cost and carrying the cross? Can you brush that aside, as well? No, it's not helpful to deal in half truths

 

[childeye 2]

Either there are works, or there are no works. Those are the only logical possibilities.

But the term "works" has more than one connotation. You would need to qualify which meaning you intended to denote.