Parable of Abraham and Lazarus

[Tavita]

(Luk 16:22 NASB) "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.

(Luk 16:23 NASB) "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.

(Luk 16:24 NASB) "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'

(Luk 16:25 NASB) "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.

(Luk 16:26 NASB) 'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.'


Hi to all those who believe in Ultimate Reconciliation,

I'm very new in the process of thinking and reading about Ultimate Reconciliation, and this passage has me stumped.

This has probably been discussed in another thread, but I would like to hear what you think in regards to Luke 16:26. They will not be able to cross over from Hades to Abraham's bosom? This is a parable, I know, but would Jesus say anything that is not true? And if I'm on the wrong track and this parable means something else, then can you put me straight?

 

[Jerubbaal]

Well, I'm no Universalist, but if I were arguing for Universalism I would point out that Christ told this parable prior to descending to hell, when he freed all the spirits of the dead. So you could argue that the implications of the parable only apply to before the atonement completed. Most certainly not my position on the subject, but I always like to look at things from different perspectives.

 

[Rockhead]

There are many questions regarding Lazarus and the rich man. Some of the questions are...

1. What qualified Lazarus for "paradise" and the rich man for the other side of the gulf?

2. What is the significance of Abraham's bosom? Why Abraham's bosom rather than God?

3. What about the dogs? What are their significance?

4. What is the great gulf?

J. Preston Eby (Abraham's Bosom)

HERE

Christ Triumphant by Rev. Thomas Allin

HERE

 

[ChasClean]

(Luk 16:26 NASB) 'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.'

This passage says nothing about the length of time that the chasm will exist. We have been trained that it is forever. But it says nothing of it in the passage.

Many interpreters believe the rich man is symbolic of the Jewish leaders, rejecting Christ. Lazarus are those believing Christ. Paul later says that the hardening which has happened to Israel is "temporary." Any separation is temporary.

 

[Charlie V]

This passage says nothing about the length of time that the chasm will exist. We have been trained that it is forever. But it says nothing of it in the passage.

True, indeed, in this verse

(Luk 16:25 NASB) "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.

The idea implied by the comparison is that the rich man will suffer equally to the suffering Lazarus has suffered.

Of course, much has been written on this topic. I could recommend books and articles discussing the parable if anyone is interested. This simple point, however, to me, immediately corrects the notion that it refers to eternal torment in an unlimited hell -- something not even hinted at in the parable.

Charlie

 

[martymonster]

The thing with the Lazarus and the Rich man parable is that you need to make sure you have a decent translation of it.

I've noticed that some translations, namely the paraphrased ones and some of the modern english ones tend to take a bit to much liberty with some of the parables and some of the symbols are actually lost!

In Lazarus and the Rich man every little detail Jesus mentions from the clothes the Rich man wears to Lazarus's sores actually mean something and are keys to unlocking the meaning of the parable.

Just a word of caution is all.

 

[martymonster]

That is an excellent point Charlie!

I hadn't even thought of it actually.

 

[angelmom01]

I see the parable as portraying the gospel being taken away from the Jews and given to the Gentiles, it is through their (Jews) unbelief that the Gentiles have been shown mercy and that will last (a great gulf fixed between the two?) UNTIL "the fulness" of the Gentiles come in.... and so "all Israel" shall be saved.

For further details (regarding the symbols involved) on how *I* see it you can go here:

http://www.christianforums.com/t4582018-lazarus-and-the-rich-man-parable.html

angelmom

 

[kept]

I also see it on one level as Jesus having come unto His own and being rejected therefore opening up to the gentiles.......

On another level I see the rich man as the one in us rich in his own understanding and his own righteousness

and the poor man as the poor in spirit

the old man as the rich man

the newman as the poor (poor in self rich in Christ)

kept

 

[angelmom01]

I also see it on one level as Jesus having come unto His own and being rejected therefore opening up to the gentiles.......

On another level I see the rich man as the one in us rich in his own understanding and his own righteousness

and the poor man as the poor in spirit

the old man as the rich man

the newman as the poor (poor in self rich in Christ)

kept

YEAH! ... and THE WAY of LIFE is above to the wise that he may DEPART FROM HELL beneath.

Lazarus died and was "caught up" into the bosom of Abrahm "by the angels".... the rich man died and was "buried" (Hades means "unseen").... the rich man who found himself in hell had to "lift his eyes" (look up??) to see Lazarus in the bosom of Abraham (afar off).

The rich man asked for a drop of water to cool his TONGUE (being "in torments in this flame").

Elsewhere we are shown how THE TONGUE is a world of iniquity and even "set on fire of hell".

We are also shown how the TONGUE holds the power of LIFE (a confession made unto salvation) and DEATH (the fiery dart of the wicked).

Lots hid there in that parable.

angelmom

 

[martymonster]

Luk 16:24And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.'


Mat 12:36I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak,
Mat 12:37for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."

 

[angelmom01]

Luk 16:24And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.'


Mat 12:36I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak,
Mat 12:37for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."

Amen, it is what comes OUT of our mouth that defiles us, as it is from the abundance OF OUR HEART that we SPEAK.

angelmom

 

[Tavita]

There are many questions regarding Lazarus and the rich man. Some of the questions are...

1. What qualified Lazarus for "paradise" and the rich man for the other side of the gulf?

2. What is the significance of Abraham's bosom? Why Abraham's bosom rather than God?

3. What about the dogs? What are their significance?

4. What is the great gulf?

J. Preston Eby (Abraham's Bosom)

HERE

Christ Triumphant by Rev. Thomas Allin

HERE

Thank you SOOO much for the article on Abraham's Bosom. I haven't read all of it yet, it's so long, and I haven't got to the part about Hades etc, but the symbolism in that parable is absolutely fantastic. I'm thoroughly enjoying reading it. And I see you have just put in the link to Christ Triumphant. Thanks again.


And thank you to everyone for sharing too. You all help me to learn to see this whole thing in a different light. It's hard to change the way we see things after so many years.. we certainly do have deeply ingrained mindsets that need to be brought into the light of Christ and His truth.



Tavs

 

[Tavita]

Luk 16:24And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.'


Mat 12:36I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak,
Mat 12:37for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."

Good point, martymonster!

 

[Tavita]

I've noticed that some translations, namely the paraphrased ones and some of the modern english ones tend to take a bit to much liberty with some of the parables and some of the symbols are actually lost!

imo.. nearly everything gets 'lost' in those translations.

 

[Tavita]

I see the parable as portraying the gospel being taken away from the Jews and given to the Gentiles, it is through their (Jews) unbelief that the Gentiles have been shown mercy and that will last (a great gulf fixed between the two?) UNTIL "the fulness" of the Gentiles come in.... and so "all Israel" shall be saved.

For further details (regarding the symbols involved) on how *I* see it you can go here:

http://www.christianforums.com/t4582018-lazarus-and-the-rich-man-parable.html

angelmom

Thanks for the link, angelmom01. I haven't got to it yet but it looks interesting. There is so much rich teaching in this parable I find incredible. And I love teaching concerning 'Israel'.

 

[ChasClean]

The idea implied by the comparison is that the rich man will suffer equally to the suffering Lazarus has suffered.

That's good.

 

[martymonster]

I found this when I googled Lazarus and the Rich man.

It's probably the best commentary Iv'e read on this subject.

http://www.savior-of-all.com/lazarus.html

 

[jpraise7]

This may be a parable, but I doubtful of it since in all Jesus' other parable there are never any names mentioned.

Since I don't think it is a parable, I tend to take the more literal meaning of the passage. For one, I think it shows that there is a literal Hades that those who do not have faith in God go to.

 

[Tavita]

This may be a parable, but I doubtful of it since in all Jesus' other parable there are never any names mentioned.

Since I don't think it is a parable, I tend to take the more literal meaning of the passage. For one, I think it shows that there is a literal Hades that those who do not have faith in God go to.

Are you aware of the Greek meaning of Hades?

Read the linked article titled 'Abraham's Bosom' in post 3 of this thread, and you will see the meaning of this story in a different light.