Papal jurisdiction in England

[Thatgirloncfforums]

When did England come under Papal control?

 

[Arcangl86]

I don't know that it's something you can put a date on. It would depend in large part by what you mean by England being under Papal control.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Well, the common trope is that King Henry XVIII broke with Rome. So I was wondering if the Church of England was always a part of Roman Catholicism.

I don't know that it's something you can put a date on. It would depend in large part by what you mean by England being under Papal control.

 

[Philip_B]

When did England come under Papal control?

1066

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

1066

Thank you. That gives me the lead I think I need

 

[Arcangl86]

Well, the common trope is that King Henry XVIII broke with Rome. So I was wondering if the Church of England was always a part of Roman Catholicism.

Ah ok. So the answer is no, because there were Roman-British Christians before the concept of Papal Supremacy had really started to take root. For instance, there is a record of British bishops around the turn of the 4th century. But the Romanization of England started around 600 ad and arguably was completed around 672. So by the time the Reformation had rolled around, England was pretty firmly part of the Roman tradition of Christianity.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

I was just reading about William's conquest which had the blessing of the Pope at the time. Why did the Pope bless the conquest if the peoples of England were already a part of the Roman Catholic Church?

Ah ok. So the answer is no, because there were Roman-British Christians before the concept of Papal Supremacy had really started to take root. For instance, there is a record of British bishops around the turn of the 4th century. But the Romanization of England started around 600 ad and arguably was completed around 672. So by the time the Reformation had rolled around, England was pretty firmly part of the Roman tradition of Christianity.

 

[Arcangl86]

I was just reading about William's conquest which had the blessing of the Pope at the time. Why did the Pope bless the conquest if the peoples of England were already a part of the Roman Catholic Church?

From my understanding the only evidence that the Pope supported the conquest came from Norman sources after the fact. But even if he did, there could have been reasons. For instance, King Harold had as his ABC somebody who had been excommunicated, and thus was illegally holding the See of Canterbury. That was a challenge to the Pope's authority.

 

[Philip_B]

From my understanding the only evidence that the Pope supported the conquest came from Norman sources after the fact. But even if he did, there could have been reasons. For instance, King Harold had as his ABC somebody who had been excommunicated, and thus was illegally holding the See of Canterbury. That was a challenge to the Pope's authority.

The most compelling evidence of the Papal support of the Invasion in 1066 is that William carried the Pope's Banners into Battle. This is clearly attested to in the Bayeaux Tapestry. The second, and also compelling evidence is what happened to the Church in England following the conquest - in short measure during the three years following the English Bishops were deposed (into monasteries, secular life, or eternity) and replaced by Norman and Italian Bishops. The liturgy of the English Church was suppressed and the Gregorian Mass was imposed.

The Archbishop of Canterbury was Stigand, who was strongly connected to the house of Wessex. He was initially a Mass Priest for Cnut, and advisor to Cnut's Wife, Emma of Normandy, who had formerly been the wife of Aethelred the Unready. Following the assent of Emma and Aethelred's Son, Edward the Confessor, and the abandonment of his post by Robert of Jumièges, Stigand was appointed Archbishop of Canterbury. He was also chancellor of the realm and Archbishop of Winchester. The ex-communication (1052) was on the grounds of holding both sees, however, it seems to have been reasonably nominal and life continued as normal. Ultimately Stigand died of starvation whilst in custody. Stigand is often cited as the likely benefactor who commissioned the Bayeaux Tapestry, mentioned above. It was a way of telling the story to a relatively illiterate society, sadly however there seem to be two or three panels from the end of the Tapestry that have been lost forever, and it is speculated that these may have been the political message (unacceptable to the conquerer) of the tapestry.

In terms of assessing the Pope's authority, it might be worth remembering that the times are close to the great ex-communications of 1054, and it is to be noted that many of Harold's supporters fled to Byzantine Bohemia to escape Papal revenge.