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Pantheism, or Panentheism?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by But_First_Coffee, May 22, 2019.

  1. But_First_Coffee

    But_First_Coffee New Member

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    Pantheism = All is God :wedding:

    Panentheism = God is greater than the universe.:milkyway:

    What do you think? What do you feel the bible has outlined to you about this?


    *So sorry if it's a repeat of an old topic, I am new here. :innocent:

    EDIT: I decided to elaborate more. I read the book "1000 Gifts" by Ann Voskamp. It is all about looking at the little blessings you have and thanking God for them, and seeing them as God loving YOU personally through them. As someone who tends to worry and be skeptical or a realist, this was good for my soul to receive this inspiration to stop looking for more and instead enjoy what's in front of me.
    HOWEVER, I was googling reviews of her book and stumbled across one where someone who is experienced in theology and literature said that she appears to have confused Pantheism with Panentheism. Towards the middle of the book she REALLY gets into how all the little things around her, the positives, inspires what she calls "eucharisteo" (Joy and thanks in Greek) to a level where Christ is "making love to her" ... not in a perverted way of course. But like he's romancing her soul. And that's what made this one book reviewer think she had them confused. So, since I suffer a more elementary level understanding of the bible and what it is to have a relationship with God, I wanted some insight.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
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  2. crossnote

    crossnote Berean Supporter

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    Pantheism-God is everything.
    Panentheism-God is IN everything.

    God the creator definitely is not the creation.

    God may be working through all things affecting life's courses but He doesn't 'dwell' in all things like so many New Agers would lead us to believe.

    God is definitely greater than the created universe both visible and invisible.
     
  3. Didaskalos

    Didaskalos He is Lord Of ALL Supporter

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    I believe that those who believe in the extreme edition of the "God is in control of everything" theory are holding to a form of pantheism. They may deny it, but since they think the universe is a being controlled by God down to the revolution of electrons in every atom... then what we are seeing is the externalization of the mind of God. Every instant is a snapshot of the mind of God at that moment.
    All of creation is essentially the mind of God being played out on a stage... which is also God.
     
  4. Rubiks

    Rubiks armchair linguist

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    Well I suppose taking the traditional attribute of "omnipresence" literally would be panentheism.

    Ultimately neither are biblical.
     
  5. icxn

    icxn Bραδύγλωσσος αἰπόλος μαθητεύων κνίζειν συκάμινα

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    God is/has neither energy nor mass, so place is not a quality that describes His nature... but we can make an approximation and say that He is everywhere, permeating everything while not being part of anything.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  6. Didaskalos

    Didaskalos He is Lord Of ALL Supporter

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    The question, I think, is whether God is separate from His creation? The answer, I believe, is yes. He is separate. People talk about man having free will. I believe that we exist in a creation of the possible where everything in creation is "free" to interact with every other element in creation all according to the established rules laid down at creation. There is a "course of nature" that governs creation.
    Of course God can and does intervene whenever He chooses. But, IMHO, He allows creation to proceed according to the established rules. Furthermore, we cannot assess the truth about God or His will by viewing the events of the world around us. We only see God in nature when He intervenes.
    The gospel itself is an intervention against nature, as is every healing, answered prayer, and miracle.
    Hence, God is not in "control of everything" and He is on the outside looking in, interviewing when necessary.
     
  7. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    Pantheism is out-and-out heretical, it denies the distinction between the Uncreated and the created, between the Maker of all things, and the things He has made.

    There is, in a sense, a way in which panENtheism is true: Namely that God is immanent in His creation. This is where a very fundamental distinction between God's Essence and God's Energies (His works, His acts, His grace, etc) is really important. God's Essence is completely and utterly unknowable, it is completely and entirely other, God's radical transcendence from everything; but God makes Himself known and works through His creation to make Himself known, and in this way God is present throughout all things, and so "In Him we live and move and have our being" (Acts 17:28), and also, "one God and Father of all, who is over all, through all, and in all." (Ephesians 4:6).

    So panENtheism is true only and insofar as we speak of God's working and active presence through His creation.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
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  8. Didaskalos

    Didaskalos He is Lord Of ALL Supporter

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  9. But_First_Coffee

    But_First_Coffee New Member

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    See above, I added an edit to get more in depth into WHY I was asking this question
     
  10. crossnote

    crossnote Berean Supporter

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    My wife has read some Voskamp to me, and my impression is that she borders on the mystical especially quoting from the desert Fathers and those who are pupils of them.

    It is a good thing to give thanks, even looking for the tiny and unexpected blessings.
    The best place to find God loving us is in the Gospel message at Calvary dying for our sins. That does not change where circumstances and our subjective interpretation of them do.
     
  11. crossnote

    crossnote Berean Supporter

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    An interesting clip (from a huge article) on the topic of 'pantheism' from the McClintock Cyclopedia...

     
  12. usexpat97

    usexpat97 kewlness

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    What about panemtheism? The elevation of President Snow as a god. Or the cult following of Hunger Games as a religion.

    Sorry, that was a joke. Couldn't resist.
     
  13. But_First_Coffee

    But_First_Coffee New Member

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    May the odds be ever in your favor. *does the mockingjay salute*
     
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