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Palisades Fire live updates: Wildfires spread in Los Angeles, prompting mandatory evacuations, as Santa Ana winds expected to intensify

DaisyDay

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Hazelelponi

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They're not the majority. Women have outnumbered men in the US since the 50's.

Yeah .. so how come that didn't help Kamala again? Oh that's right because conservative WOMEN also want public services rendered at a high level.

I'm with anyone who is paying for public services who expect better than their house burned to the ground via government malfeasance - whether they are cis gender hetero white Christian men or not... I married one for good reason.

To keep our loved one's safe we vote red. Merit and ability is the only way to go when people's lives are at stake.
 
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iluvatar5150

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Yeah .. so how come that didn't help Kamala again? Oh that's right because conservative WOMEN also want public services rendered at a high level.

I'm with anyone who is paying for public services who expect better than their house burned to the ground via government malfeasance - whether they are cis gender hetero white Christian men or not... I married one for good reason.

To keep our loved one's safe we vote red. Merit and ability is the only way to go when people's lives are at stake.

That’s nice.
 
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Vambram

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Death toll rises to 24 in LA wildfires, more wind expected
Fire is worst in Los Angeles history
Progress reported in containment efforts
More bodies expected as dogs search area

 
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Nithavela

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Death toll rises to 24 in LA wildfires, more wind expected
Fire is worst in Los Angeles history
Progress reported in containment efforts
More bodies expected as dogs search area

9ghi9n.jpg
 
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essentialsaltes

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Investigators study Eaton Canyon electrical tower area as possible origin of Altadena fire


Southern California Edison officials have so far said they do not believe their electrical equipment was responsible.

Matthew Logelin, who lives at the base of Eaton Canyon in Pasadena, heard a loud bang about 6:11 p.m. Tuesday as he was preparing dinner for his children. [Could also be firework or other explosive device.]

He ran outside to see whether one of the big pine trees in their backyard, which backs up to Eaton Canyon, had fallen in the high winds. Seeing no major damage, he went back into the house, looked through the kitchen window and saw that a fire had ignited on the ridge beneath a massive metal power line.

He called 911 at 6:13 p.m. when the blaze “was the tiniest fire — it looked like a camp fire at that point,” he said.

early photo of fire:
1736778787535.png


What caused the Palisades blaze? Visual evidence points to a recent fire nearby.

Did New Year’s Eve fireworks start the largest Los Angeles fire?

About 30 minutes after the Palisades Fire started on Tuesday, the firefighters’ radio crackled: The flames were coming from a familiar sliver of a mountain ridge.
“The foot of the fire started real close to where the last fire was on New Year’s Eve,” said a Los Angeles County firefighter, according to a Washington Post review of archived radio transmissions.

“We know that fires rekindle and transition from smoldering to flaming,” said Michael Gollner, a professor of mechanical engineering and fire scientist at the University of California at Berkeley who reviewed The Post’s materials. “It’s certainly possible that something from that previous fire, within a week, had rekindled and caused the ignition.”

[As hurricane force winds blew through the area.]

[Rectangle is identified as the burn scar of the NYE fire, smoke plume from jan 7th start of the Palisades fire.]
1736779448875.png
 
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wing2000

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During the preceding two winters, prolific rains fell. Between December 2022 and March 2023, 21.45 inches of rain was recorded at Los Angeles International Airport — twice what’s normal. The next winter brought 18.81 inches.

Two back-to-back winters with soaking rains spurred a lot of growth. Vegetation flourished, with verdure growing out and becoming unkempt.
Then came the past eight months.

Since May 6, only 0.03 inches of rain has fallen. Drought abruptly set in. All the extra growth suddenly dried out and died. That littered the ground with fuels and made the perfect recipe for voracious fires.


 
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iluvatar5150

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What does all this mean for prescription burning: the practice of intentionally lighting controlled fires to burn an area. Is that a good or bad idea?

Prescription burning is a really important management tool in forests. I work in Sequoia National Park, and there we have clear evidence that prescription burning, which has been going on for 50 years, has been highly effective at preventing catastrophic fires. For example, the 2021 KNP Complex fire burned something like 80,000 acres, mainly in the Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks. It destroyed vast stretches of forest, but when it hit the Giant Forest, a landscape that has been subjected to prescription burning, it died down. Giant Forest is the poster child of why you want to do prescription burning. If you can burn frequently enough, you can keep the fuels down and prevent massive crown fires.

When you get to Southern California, there is a belief by some fire management agencies that they work the same way: that we need to put fire onto the landscape. But these are landscapes that are already suffering from excessive burning due to human ignitions. There’s the potential for prescription burning to actually be damaging to resources. If agencies are going to burn in chaparral, they need to try and focus on areas that are older than a couple of decades.

Interesting articles about the difference between controlled burns in large forests (like in northern California) and controlled burns in brushy chaparral areas like those in the LA hills. My understanding is that there's an ongoing debate about the best way to handle chaparral, with one side arguing that too-frequent burning doesn't give the native plants time to regrow, which allows non-native plants to come in and increase the fire risk.
 
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keith99

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Interesting articles about the difference between controlled burns in large forests (like in northern California) and controlled burns in brushy chaparral areas like those in the LA hills. My understanding is that there's an ongoing debate about the best way to handle chaparral, with one side arguing that too-frequent burning doesn't give the native plants time to regrow, which allows non-native plants to come in and increase the fire risk.
With chaparral there is an additional problem. The natural cycle was for it to burn every decade or 2. With man putting out every fire it has been far longer than that and there is far much more dead wood. Under natural conditions the fire would be hot enough to prime seeds to germinate with the next rainy season. With too much dead wood the fires burn too hot and instead destroy the seeds that would have restarted the cycle.

This was common knowledge among the biologists who studied the situation or knew others who had done so by the 1970s. At least that is how it seemed talking to my biology prof at that time.
 
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essentialsaltes

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BPPLEE

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How much more fire prevention could $4 billion a year provide?




California's state spending for Medi-Cal has risen to about $37 billion a year, an increase of over 80% since 2018. The expansions of access to undocumented households cost about $4 billion a year, according to the Legislative Analyst's Office. California's budget is nearly $300 billion this 2024-25 fiscal year
 
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wing2000

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Speaker Mike Johnson suggests 'conditions' needed on disaster aid for LA wildfires

He did not offer specifics and ABC News has asked his office to clarify.

After natural disasters, additional funding to help rebuild is usually approved with few if any conditions and typically receives bipartisan support.

Has Congress ever conditioned natural disaster aid?

...not that I recall.

There has been opposition to aid bills loaded with other items...but not straight up aid. But...this is the politics of Donald Trump
 
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BPPLEE

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Has Congress ever conditioned natural disaster aid?

...not that I recall.

There has been opposition to aid bills loaded with other items...but not straight up aid. But...this is the politics of Donald Trump
Maybe he just wants to make sure it’s spent on what it’s allocated for
 
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Vambram

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Maybe he just wants to make sure it’s spent on what it’s allocated for
It is also a good idea, IMO, to get the various levels of government in California practice and put in place actions that would prevent the annual wildfires in California become as devastating as what we've seen almost every year.
 
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keith99

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It is also a good idea, IMO, to get the various levels of government in California practice and put in place actions that would prevent the annual wildfires in California become as devastating as what we've seen almost every year.
Fair enough, as soon as the Southeast figures out a way to prevent the hurricane damage that we see almost every year.
 
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Vambram

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Fair enough, as soon as the Southeast figures out a way to prevent the hurricane damage that we see almost every year.
Actually? Florida responds much better before, during, and after the annual hurricanes than the California responses concerning wildfires.
 
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RDKirk

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Fair enough, as soon as the Southeast figures out a way to prevent the hurricane damage that we see almost every year.
What does one have to do with the other? It's okay for California to sit on its hands until Florida does something first?
 
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RDKirk

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You can, but that raises the possibility that nothing will grow there for years, perhaps decades. Then it will be years of mudslides.
That doesn't seem to be the case with areas flooded by seawater nearly annually on the Gulf and East coasts.
Turns out it also damages equipment.

Rinse out the equipment afterward. Change the seals.
Also, Encino Reservoir and Stone Canyon Reservoir are not that much farther away than the ocean for Pacific Palisades. For the other fires fresh water lakes are closer than the ocean.
So, why weren't they used, if they are available?
 
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RDKirk

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Okay but I think technology exists to purify salt water
Not in fire-fighting amounts. But the question is whether that's really necessary to use only fresh water to fight fires.
 
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RDKirk

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It makes it difficult to grow anything afterwards due to the salt level in the soil, so it may have short term benefits (putting out the fire) but will result in long term problems.
So, the state made a decision, the people voted for them to make that decision.

Funny, though, that areas frequently flooded by seawater seem to lack that problem.
 
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